gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

[john832]

what about before the law?

First of all, what Law do you refer to? Abraham kept the same Law that was restated on Mt. Sinai...

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

and what Laws would that be?

The word for Law here is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

The Torah!

And I would disagree, david understood eternal life (sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire)

And David also said...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psa 119:55 I have remembered thy name, O LORD, in the night, and have kept thy law.

Now that is interesting! David says he did something you say cannot be done.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Now is there a different or new truth in the New Testament?

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

Wonder why a man after God's own heart connected delighting in the Law with salvation?

God says he knew us before we were born, and we were predestined. so our eternity was known by God before adam was even created..



Yet he said if it were not for law, he would not know what sin was. The law was given and he died.

ONe way to read it, but if you read it the way you say here the Law was apparently sleeping and was only revived in the time of Paul...

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

In reality, he began to understand the truth and SIN revived and he realized he was as good as dead. His hope was that Christ would grant him forgiveness through grace and he could receive the gift of life.

We do. We establish the law by admiting the law was right, and we were guilty, this is how we repent.

To establish something is to acnowledge it's existence and being and realize it exists. We repent by changing we quit sinning.

it is.. And we have broken it.. thus are killed by it.

this is what is meant by the ministration of death. The law kills because all have fallen short of the law. and are thus dead by it..

And this somehow does away with the need to try to keep the Law? To quit doing the things that killed us?

[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. [SUP]9[/SUP]I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Yes it is, it is the way of life for a Christian. A Christian should obey each of the Ten Commandments even to the thoughts of our minds. Grace is the forgiveness provided by Christ's sacrifice each time we slip, fall and break one of these Laws.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First of all, what Law do you refer to? Abraham kept the same Law that was restated on Mt. Sinai...

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So abraham was perfect? He was saved by works?? That is not what my Bible says.

And as I have said, we are not talking about the same law.. Yes some of the laws are the same, But the written law is much different.. The only thing Abraham was given was circumcision..

and what Laws would that be?

The word for Law here is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

The Torah!




And David alo said...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psa 119:55 I have remembered thy name, O LORD, in the night, and have kept thy law.

Now that is interesting! David says he did something you say cannot be done.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Now is there a different or new truth in the New Testament?

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

Wonder why a man after God's own heart connected delighting in the Law with salvation?

Hmm. I guess David was perfect also.. And he was not saved by faith??

ONe way to read it, but if you read it the way you say here the Law was apparently sleeping and was only revived in the time of Paul...

no.. one should read it as fact, For this reason God passed over the sins previosly commited (before the law was given)

When Paul understood the law. He understood. he was guilty, and needed Christ, How do you think he repented. Remember, as Saul, He thought the law is what made him Holy and Right with God.. it is when he realised the law did the opposite that he came to Christ.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

In reality, he began to understand the truth and SIN revived and he realized he was as good as dead. His hope was that Christ would grant him forgiveness through grace and he could receive the gift of life.

Yes. He realised he could not be saved by obaying Gods commands, He could obay all he wanted (he was considered a pharisee of phsrisees, thus one of the most righteous people alive in his day) and it would dop him no good. The law could not save him, It could only kill him, which it did.

To establish something is to acnowledge it's existence and being and realize it exists. We repent by changing we quit sinning.

Yes and No. Yes it means acknowledge, No, We repent by admiting we are a sinner and have no hope. Our new birth allows us to change,, We do not change first. God says we can;t change. It is the gratitude of Gods salvation and mercy which gives us the love for him which causes us to want to change. Not a book of rules which says do this or else. That is going back to law. and no different than what the man named saul believed before he repented.

And this somehow does away with the need to try to keep the Law? To quit doing the things that killed us?

Need to try to keep it? what are you talking about. If I keep it to be saved, I have to keep it perfectly. can I do that?? and even if I could. Am I not already guilty by it? thus I can NEVER fully keep it?? Only one man kept the law. and that man is Christ.

Yes it is, it is the way of life for a Christian. A Christian should obey each of the Ten Commandments even to the thoughts of our minds. Grace is the forgiveness provided by Christ's sacrifice each time we slip, fall and break one of these Laws.

Your not getting it. We obey the command by following the law of faith. Not the ten commands. You have been shown this over and over. If we follow the law of faith and love, we obey the commands. This is what God teaches..

 

[crossnote]

Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

So you know for a fact that the Ten Commandments were in force from Adam to Moses? Very good. Interestingly enough, they are still in force.

Was it really except on man's fallen conscience...?

 

[john832]

So abraham was perfect? He was saved by works?? That is not what my Bible says.

And as I have said, we are not talking about the same law.. Yes some of the laws are the same, But the written law is much different.. The only thing Abraham was given was circumcision..




Hmm. I guess David was perfect also.. And he was not saved by faith??



no.. one should read it as fact, For this reason God passed over the sins previosly commited (before the law was given)

When Paul understood the law. He understood. he was guilty, and needed Christ, How do you think he repented. Remember, as Saul, He thought the law is what made him Holy and Right with God.. it is when he realised the law did the opposite that he came to Christ.



Yes. He realised he could not be saved by obaying Gods commands, He could obay all he wanted (he was considered a pharisee of phsrisees, thus one of the most righteous people alive in his day) and it would dop him no good. The law could not save him, It could only kill him, which it did.



Yes and No. Yes it means acknowledge, No, We repent by admiting we are a sinner and have no hope. Our new birth allows us to change,, We do not change first. God says we can;t change. It is the gratitude of Gods salvation and mercy which gives us the love for him which causes us to want to change. Not a book of rules which says do this or else. That is going back to law. and no different than what the man named saul believed before he repented.



Need to try to keep it? what are you talking about. If I keep it to be saved, I have to keep it perfectly. can I do that?? and even if I could. Am I not already guilty by it? thus I can NEVER fully keep it?? Only one man kept the law. and that man is Christ.




Your not getting it. We obey the command by following the law of faith. Not the ten commands. You have been shown this over and over. If we follow the law of faith and love, we obey the commands. This is what God teaches..

OH i think I get it, We are saved by grace but we are to obey the one who saved us and He doesn't change. His Law has been the same in the past, is now and will be in the future. He is consistent and dependable...

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

 

[crossnote]

OH i think I get it, We are saved by grace but we are to obey the one who saved us and He doesn't change. His Law has been the same in the past, is now and will be in the future. He is consistent and dependable...

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

I'm curious. Why are you so infatuated with 'keeping the law'? I seldom hear you mention anything about 'believing the promises.

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (2Pe 1:3-4)

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, (Eph 1:19-20)

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2Co 3:15-18)

The Christian lives by faith in the Person of Jesus and promises of God. His Life is our life. Where do you see that the law benefits the Christian as you see spelled out above? Or are you saying we walk by law and not by faith in the promises?

I can't but repeat this passage for the benefit of the Judaizers...

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Gal 2:19-20)

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, in addition to complete my given last passage is when the MESSIAH came HE gave us the New Covenant of GOD the FATHER, which is ruled by the HOLY SPIRIT who gives life.
i understand we are human beings and have weakness, but the MESSIAH clearly said to listen and pay attention to HIS teachings; 'Those who hear these teachings of mine and do (practice) them................'
Remember JESUS is also talking in the same passage about tribulation. Even though you and i may not face tribulation but are we not in one pain that others out there who are our brothers and sisters are being persecuted for the Gospel and our freedom. Do we not share the truth as it is said and written in the HOLY BIBLE using sound doctrine to build and edify others so that they in spiritual understanding build and edify others who may face a small or big tribulation. Also united in one doctrine pray for one's sin and weaknesses.
If we continue to make excuses of carnality and remain, then when are we going to pray and to put to practice the things of the SPIRIT in the New Covenant, so in order to put to death carnality?
Remember in Galatians 5, the war between the carnal and the SPIRIT. If you are guided by one, you won't remain in the other one.
Until today the HOLY SPIRIT is grieved by us, carnal living Christians, taking scriptures out of context from a sound doctrine truth called the New Covenant and making excuses for sins.
When the builder scriptures also continue to say; Your sins are forgiven, sin no more.' 'Stop sinning so that something worse will not happen to you.' 'Those who keep on sinning belongs to the devil.' ' Those who do not continue in my Words are not my disciples and you will not know the truth and the truth is not in you to set you free.'
Please listen and pay attention to the HOLY SPIRIT our true Teacher's Word; 'Those who abide/keep/continue/stand/stomach/comply with/adhere to/conform to/bear/suffer etc.'
In reference to these sound doctrine in accordance to the Holy Scripture quotes, the HOLY SPIRIT guided me to look into the Oxford dictionary for the word 'Abide' and i encourage the ones who are keen and have faith to do the same and be blessed.
People taught Christianity is like a walk in the park because of it's false influences came from it's very people themselves. Gentiles are claiming that all religion are one, directing to that one GOD. We have deceived them with our false way of life and not the MESSIAH's teaching ways from the FATHER. i know this by the help of the HOLY SPIRIT witnessing, living in a multi nationality country. The Muslims here say; 'The bad influences of the west, people of lawlessness.' We and our lifestyle speak for itself and it is not hidden and are witness by Gentiles and CHRIST is spoken bad of.
The HOLY SPIRIT corrects to encourage those who claim others are judging their own. You yourself are a judge, judging those who are judging.
JESUS said; 'I did not come to judge but even if I judge, it will be right and fair.'
CHRIST the HOLY SPIRIT in Apostle Paul said; 'Why should we judge outsiders when GOD is their judge, Rather judge our own members', who claims to walk in the truth but not deceiving others who are weak to move forward using the Word of GOD.
Others and i who are witness to the sound doctrine of the Holy Scripture and are guided to share them to build and edify know we have a SPIRITUAL Law book and HE is the judge WHO justifies while we are still alive and walking, our works whether it is worthy to enter GOD'S place of rest.
i pray in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST that the lambs and sheeps of GOD will listen and pay attention to the voice of it's MASTER and only follow HIM, being prepared and ready for the better or worse ahead.
As it is written and spoken in a sound doctrine manner, JESUS is not an imaginary friend or an image of anything in it's likeness for us to draw near to follow, like the Pagans do concerning their gods.
JESUS to us by the help of the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT is the Word of the New Covenant in whom with our given gift of initial faith from the FATHER, must abide/keep/continue etc.

 

[crossnote]

Peace be with you, in addition to complete my given last passage is when the MESSIAH came HE gave us the New Covenant of GOD the FATHER, which is ruled by the HOLY SPIRIT who gives life.
i understand we are human beings and have weakness, but the MESSIAH clearly said to listen and pay attention to HIS teachings; 'Those who hear these teachings of mine and do (practice) them................'
Remember JESUS is also talking in the same passage about tribulation. Even though you and i may not face tribulation but are we not in one pain that others out there who are our brothers and sisters are being persecuted for the Gospel and our freedom. Do we not share the truth as it is said and written in the HOLY BIBLE using sound doctrine to build and edify others so that they in spiritual understanding build and edify others who may face a small or big tribulation. Also united in one doctrine pray for one's sin and weaknesses.
If we continue to make excuses of carnality and remain, then when are we going to pray and to put to practice the things of the SPIRIT in the New Covenant, so in order to put to death carnality?
Remember in Galatians 5, the war between the carnal and the SPIRIT. If you are guided by one, you won't remain in the other one.
Until today the HOLY SPIRIT is grieved by us, carnal living Christians, taking scriptures out of context from a sound doctrine truth called the New Covenant and making excuses for sins.
When the builder scriptures also continue to say; Your sins are forgiven, sin no more.' 'Stop sinning so that something worse will not happen to you.' 'Those who keep on sinning belongs to the devil.' ' Those who do not continue in my Words are not my disciples and you will not know the truth and the truth is not in you to set you free.'
Please listen and pay attention to the HOLY SPIRIT our true Teacher's Word; 'Those who abide/keep/continue/stand/stomach/comply with/adhere to/conform to/bear/suffer etc.'
In reference to these sound doctrine in accordance to the Holy Scripture quotes, the HOLY SPIRIT guided me to look into the Oxford dictionary for the word 'Abide' and i encourage the ones who are keen and have faith to do the same and be blessed.
People taught Christianity is like a walk in the park because of it's false influences came from it's very people themselves. Gentiles are claiming that all religion are one, directing to that one GOD. We have deceived them with our false way of life and not the MESSIAH's teaching ways from the FATHER. i know this by the help of the HOLY SPIRIT witnessing, living in a multi nationality country. The Muslims here say; 'The bad influences of the west, people of lawlessness.' We and our lifestyle speak for itself and it is not hidden and are witness by Gentiles and CHRIST is spoken bad of.
The HOLY SPIRIT corrects to encourage those who claim others are judging their own. You yourself are a judge, judging those who are judging.
JESUS said; 'I did not come to judge but even if I judge, it will be right and fair.'
CHRIST the HOLY SPIRIT in Apostle Paul said; 'Why should we judge outsiders when GOD is their judge, Rather judge our own members', who claims to walk in the truth but not deceiving others who are weak to move forward using the Word of GOD.
Others and i who are witness to the sound doctrine of the Holy Scripture and are guided to share them to build and edify know we have a SPIRITUAL Law book and HE is the judge WHO justifies while we are still alive and walking, our works whether it is worthy to enter GOD'S place of rest.
i pray in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST that the lambs and sheeps of GOD will listen and pay attention to the voice of it's MASTER and only follow HIM, being prepared and ready for the better or worse ahead.
As it is written and spoken in a sound doctrine manner, JESUS is not an imaginary friend or an image of anything in it's likeness for us to draw near to follow, like the Pagans do concerning their gods.
JESUS to us by the help of the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT is the Word of the New Covenant in whom with our given gift of initial faith from the FATHER, must abide/keep/continue etc.

The thread is on Galatians 3:10-12. How do you view that passage?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OH i think I get it, We are saved by grace but we are to obey the one who saved us and He doesn't change. His Law has been the same in the past, is now and will be in the future. He is consistent and dependable...

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Let me reword it. Maybe you will understand my belief better

We are saved by Grace through faith in the work of God. Those saved by faith WILL (the must makes it legalistic and takes us back to law) obey the one who saved us, Because if we trust him for such a great and mighty thing as our eternity, which is forever. How could we not trust him for the little things, Like love the Lord our God and our Neighbor, from which all the law and prophets are fulfilled.

This is why James said, if we see someone who claims ot have faith, but has no work (we do not see a changed life of a person who is now walking toward God) their faith is dead, Can their faith save them? What faith, they had non, so the answer would be no.. Or John, Who states we who are born of God can't sin, Because his seed is in us.. Or Paul, We were saved by grace through faith, not of works,, We are saved are created in (through) Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS.. We will do them, it is our new nature.. the old is passed away.

But this does not mean we will be perfect. Or even grow into super mature adults in Gods family.

 

[john832]

I'm curious. Why are you so infatuated with 'keeping the law'? I seldom hear you mention anything about 'believing the promises.

Why am I infatuated with keeping the Law?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


It seemed rather important to Christ. Important enough for Him to say that only those who keep the Commandments will be the ones who are given eternal life.

 

[starfield]

Why am I infatuated with keeping the Law?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


It seemed rather important to Christ. Important enough for Him to say that only those who keep the Commandments will be the ones who are given eternal life.

What is your understanding of Romans 7:1-6?

1. Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2. For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[notuptome]

There is nothing wrong with keeping the commandments. There is something very wrong with keeping the commandments to be made righteous. Righteousness is imputed by grace through faith. The commandments are there for us to keep so that we do not appear as the world but as a citizen of heaven. This we would do even if there were no commandments for God has written upon our hearts His precepts. We have a new nature in Christ. We are new creations in Christ. We no longer serve sin but Christ. We are dead to sin. Romans 6:7-8
It is fundamentally wrong to conclude that any man is made righteous by works as in keeping commandments. For one to claim that they are righteous because they keep the Sabbath any Sabbath is to directly impugn the righteousness imputed by God through Christ.
The blood of Christ saves us from the very thing some endeavor to bring us into bondage to again. Liberty in Christ is not license to sin but freedom to worship in Spirit and truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[crossnote]

Why am I infatuated with keeping the Law?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


It seemed rather important to Christ. Important enough for Him to say that only those who keep the Commandments will be the ones who are given eternal life.

I see, you skip the promises of the Holy Spirit and free grace and would rather feed your pride on law. What's your view on the Gal 2 passage I quoted?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why am I infatuated with keeping the Law?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Those born again by him do love him. And it is this love and faith which causes them to obey
Someone who is not born again has no capacity to love him. They obey out of a pridefull hope God may save them by their actions. This is a false hope.

J

oh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Again, Everyone born of God DOES do this. Those which are not may try to do it. But it would be for naught.. God never knew them

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

If only one is good. Why do you think you can be good?

If we want life abundantly (after we are born again) we should keep his commands. if not. we will suffer chastening, And not live life abundant, But still be saved.

But hey, If you want to claim you equal with God (good) then go for it..

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

yep. The saints. Those born of God, Who through his love are empowered to keep the ocmmands and do his will as they learn to trust him.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


It seemed rather important to Christ. Important enough for Him to say that only those who keep the Commandments will be the ones who are given eternal life.

If this is true, Then we are saved by law. And every man woman or child in heaven can BOAST of the fact they were saved because they, unlike others, Obeyed Christ, They sacrificed their wants and desires so they could be free and get a ticket to heaven paid for not by the blood of christ, but their hard work.

You must have a different bible.

Not by works of righteousness which I have done (ever did or will do) but by HIS MERCY, HE SAVED ME by the WASHING and RENEWING of the HS

Keep trying to work for it, While excusing your sin. and see how far it gets you. The law, written on Stone, Condemns you. Whether you like it or not!

 

[Abiding]

i keep coming in to argue with EG but hes just
to skilled in the word.....sheesh! no fun

 

[crossnote]

There is nothing wrong with keeping the commandments. There is something very wrong with keeping the commandments to be made righteous. Righteousness is imputed by grace through faith. The commandments are there for us to keep so that we do not appear as the world but as a citizen of heaven. This we would do even if there were no commandments for God has written upon our hearts His precepts. We have a new nature in Christ. We are new creations in Christ. We no longer serve sin but Christ. We are dead to sin. Romans 6:7-8
It is fundamentally wrong to conclude that any man is made righteous by works as in keeping commandments. For one to claim that they are righteous because they keep the Sabbath any Sabbath is to directly impugn the righteousness imputed by God through Christ.
The blood of Christ saves us from the very thing some endeavor to bring us into bondage to again. Liberty in Christ is not license to sin but freedom to worship in Spirit and truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Of course no one here is advocating licentiousness, just different means of obedience...
Here is the puzzlement I am having with a certain few. The new life in Christ as found in the 2nd Testament especially the Epistles, Acts and the Gospel of John are full of promises aiming to strengthen our faith by His grace (and is the clear emphasis of these writings) and yet certain few want to major on the law and obedience not realizing that even that can only come from us as true fruit of the Spirit, otherwise it is only a work of the flesh.
It's almost as if attention is diverted from the work God has done, is doing and will do for us and in us TO work we are to do by gazing at the law and then tightening our lip and resolve and going out to do it by the limited 'help' of the Spirit.

 

[john832]

i keep coming in to argue with EG but hes just
to skilled in the word.....sheesh! no fun

Even though he seems to have great difficulty posting scripture to substantiate his claims.

 

[homwardbound]

Sorry to butt in on this, I do not want to interrupt the flow of your discussion. However, I come here because I am very confused about all of these viewpoints. I am a recommitted Christian, and I might as well say a New Christian because I did not know much of the faith until now. From what I have gathered, if you believe in Jesus Christ and ask Him into your heart, and repent for your sins, you are saved as you are washed in the Holy Spirit. Though we are still human beings, and by being human beings we naturally do things we should not. For instance, you may grow mad, maybe even slightly irritated at a person today. Being angry with someone is the same as murdering them, and that breaks one of the commandments. But, if we recognize that we do this, and ask Christ to forgive us and help us turn from our anger, we will be okay. I have spent the past week absorbing myself in the Gospel, as well as reading devotionals(I just put one down matter of fact). I suppose what I am trying to say is that, we will still sin as we are human, but if we put our faith in Christ, he will help us along the narrow path and lead us away from it again by feeling convicted for it. Our Father is Just, Holy, and Loving. Parents set up rules for their children in order for them to stay safe, and when the child breaks one, they are of course scolded. But that does not mean the child no longer "belongs" to their parents. I don't believe any of our parents ever kicked us out of our house when we drew on the table when we were younger, or refused to go to time out. They punished us of course, but they did that out of their love for us. Because we knew this, and we love them, we (hopefully) stopped drawing on that table, even though we had run out of paper and that giraffe or hippo we were thinking about would look lovely on the living room table, we refrained from doing it because our parents told us not to, and we love and trust them. God is our Father, so is he not the same way? He loved us so much He sent Christ to die for us in atonement for our sins.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that it is simply impossible to follow the law in a complete and perfect manner, so that is why we need Jesus. Through Jesus, we recognize the law not by wanting to earn our own righteousness, but because we love Him and want to live like Him. Because God realized we could never fulfill a life that lives completely by the law. He deeply wants a personal relationship with us, and He gives us the opportunity to have that through Christ. Without Christ, we would all be condemned. Jesus lived a life in flesh like ours, and he resisted the temptations of sin. He understands that it is very hard to avoid it, and that we will at sometimes fall into it. But He will not forsake us, if we do not forsake Him. If we genuinely ask our kind Savior for His forgiveness, and truly feel the guilt for what we did(which is a lesson He teaches us in order for us to not do it again!), then He will keep us in His arms. Yes, God is Holy and Just, but let us not forget how Loving he is, and how good He is. He continues to shape us everyday, and we all have to grow and mature. We must drink milk before we can eat meat. We must take small steps until we can climb the mountain.

Forgive me if any of this is waivers off topic, from what I have read there seems to be some similar shifts in discussion. I am merely trying to understand the life of a Christian better. Also, forgive me if any of my opinions seem mislead, I am doing my best to understand the Lord and all his outstanding Glory.

On a final note, I noticed that in topics such as these, people seem to forget two things the Lord asked us to do. Do not judge each other, and love each other. Just make sure that what you are saying is meant in a loving way, and you are trying to help them understand your view, while being careful not to bash theirs because you believe "yours is the right way". Love thy neighbor and treat them how you would yourself.

God bless,
Tristen

P.S: I do recognize that I am still very young, and have much to learn. I just want to learn all I can, and learn the truth.

And God knows this, and will if you listen to God by giving God all you say and hear, God who is now in you, in your nornagain Spirit that God gave you, will show you truth and error. A lot you will learn from experience, and error.
First of all you are forgiven 100% by God through Christ, where Christ took away the sin issue and this was to purge the believers conscious from sin. Hebrews might be a good place for you to read, to see what Christ did. Just read it in context and in asking God to reveal to you whatever it is the God wants to reveal to you
Now for me the entire Bible is a LOVE story. And it does not seem this way, with all the incongruities of appearances, that seem to collide and yet do not. When other parts do not fit, then error needs to be revealed and this only comes from God to you.
Now another thought I have learned is I have not found anywhere in the Word, where God has asked or said to figure it out, and many are desperately trying to figure it out.
But I have found a Zillion times where God said trust God, have Faith in God, why?
Because God has already got it all figured out, so be in God by belief, and know God ahs got it all together, even when it looks bad, or when bad things happen here on earth, it is what it is, acceptance of good and bad as it is, then relax, and trust.
Which is not easy for human flesh to do.
Hope this might help as you grow in the grace of God

 

[homwardbound]

First of all, what Law do you refer to? Abraham kept the same Law that was restated on Mt. Sinai...

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

and what Laws would that be?

The word for Law here is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

The Torah!




And David also said...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psa 119:55 I have remembered thy name, O LORD, in the night, and have kept thy law.

Now that is interesting! David says he did something you say cannot be done.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Now is there a different or new truth in the New Testament?

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

Wonder why a man after God's own heart connected delighting in the Law with salvation?




ONe way to read it, but if you read it the way you say here the Law was apparently sleeping and was only revived in the time of Paul...

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

In reality, he began to understand the truth and SIN revived and he realized he was as good as dead. His hope was that Christ would grant him forgiveness through grace and he could receive the gift of life.




To establish something is to acnowledge it's existence and being and realize it exists. We repent by changing we quit sinning.



And this somehow does away with the need to try to keep the Law? To quit doing the things that killed us?




Yes it is, it is the way of life for a Christian. A Christian should obey each of the Ten Commandments even to the thoughts of our minds. Grace is the forgiveness provided by Christ's sacrifice each time we slip, fall and break one of these Laws.

Praying for you to see what the mixing of Law and grace of God does not accomplish? Like oil and water just does not mix

 

[homwardbound]

OH i think I get it, We are saved by grace but we are to obey the one who saved us and He doesn't change. His Law has been the same in the past, is now and will be in the future. He is consistent and dependable...

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

[h=3]Matthew 22:36-46[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and greatest commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP]40 [/SUP]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


Deuteronomy 6:1
[ Love the Lord Your God ] These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,

Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God
2 Thessalonians 3:5 May the Lord direct your hearts into God’s love and Christ’s perseverance.
Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
Galatians 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

I love you and if what you are saying to do is working for you, then please continue. For me I came to the point of asking God to show me what the death means of Christ and the resurrection of Christ means. I asked because I saw my insidious self, and knew I needed a new life in him. So God took me to the grave of Christ, where I became dead with Christ, where my insidious old man was dealt with. Then God raised me back to life as he already did for his Son Christ, so I am born again I him, and today live a life of Love. Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life
We are today in a new covenant, under new laws of the Spirit , not the letter, and under a new Priesthood, the Old has gone for me and the Love of God has taken over for me in me and through me, after I was undone in the grave first and foremost with Christ, I today have been co-crucified with Christ, and after that co-risen with Chirst in the Spirit, dead to flesh and alive in the Holy Ghost of God that Jesus sent to each that believe to teach truth to us each individually, and the end of the commandments , the letter of the law is over and out
[h=3]Romans 10:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[homwardbound]

Let me reword it. Maybe you will understand my belief better

We are saved by Grace through faith in the work of God. Those saved by faith WILL (the must makes it legalistic and takes us back to law) obey the one who saved us, Because if we trust him for such a great and mighty thing as our eternity, which is forever. How could we not trust him for the little things, Like love the Lord our God and our Neighbor, from which all the law and prophets are fulfilled.

This is why James said, if we see someone who claims ot have faith, but has no work (we do not see a changed life of a person who is now walking toward God) their faith is dead, Can their faith save them? What faith, they had non, so the answer would be no.. Or John, Who states we who are born of God can't sin, Because his seed is in us.. Or Paul, We were saved by grace through faith, not of works,, We are saved are created in (through) Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS.. We will do them, it is our new nature.. the old is passed away.

But this does not mean we will be perfect. Or even grow into super mature adults in Gods family.

Because, if we did then we would not need God and be proud and or boastful, and if we are in God guess what

[h=3]2 Corinthians 12:7-21[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.