-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I don't want to pay for my sin,, that would mean eternal death.. Now why would i want to do that? How stupid would that be?
Satans trick is to get you to believe the dead are alive and that it doesn't matter if you keep Gods Commandments,,,And I have a very strong feeling that Satan has succeded in getting you to beleive both lies.
E
How can I read you?
1. You refuse to answer questions
2. You keep claiming people who do not obey some standard will not have or lose their salvation.
A child can read you!
One does not have to be a brain surgeon or God to know what you preach is not what you claim. You condemn us, saying we love sin, with no proof. You condemn us saying Gods law does not mean anything to us. with no proof. You condemn us to hell. Then get angry when we claim your gospel is a gospel of works. and prove it by what you claim..
how can I have a list?
1. I do not know what every denomination teaches.
2. i do not know if someone who was saved by faith, and has been fooled into joining a denomination which preaches salvation by law is saved or not?
You never want to answer questions, but continue to ask questions which do not even deal with the subject. And you wonder why people get so angry at you!
1. You refuse to answer questions
2. You keep claiming people who do not obey some standard will not have or lose their salvation.
A child can read you!
One does not have to be a brain surgeon or God to know what you preach is not what you claim. You condemn us, saying we love sin, with no proof. You condemn us saying Gods law does not mean anything to us. with no proof. You condemn us to hell. Then get angry when we claim your gospel is a gospel of works. and prove it by what you claim..
how can I have a list?
1. I do not know what every denomination teaches.
2. i do not know if someone who was saved by faith, and has been fooled into joining a denomination which preaches salvation by law is saved or not?
You never want to answer questions, but continue to ask questions which do not even deal with the subject. And you wonder why people get so angry at you!
E
so. Prove it
tell me man cannot lose salvation if they do not meet some standard of law obeying
tell me man is not saved by how well they obey Gods commands.
if you can't say this, then you do not believe eternal life is free by grace, but must be earned by how well you obey. there is no getting around this FACT!
You keep telling us the answer to these questions is no.. So how can we believe you when you continue to claim otherwise?
tell me man cannot lose salvation if they do not meet some standard of law obeying
tell me man is not saved by how well they obey Gods commands.
if you can't say this, then you do not believe eternal life is free by grace, but must be earned by how well you obey. there is no getting around this FACT!
You keep telling us the answer to these questions is no.. So how can we believe you when you continue to claim otherwise?
E
Yes this is a trick. He gets people who are dead to think they are alive and thus can live however they want (licentiousness. We both agree to this
he also tries the same trick by getting people who are dead to think they are alive because they obey Gods commands so well.. Which is IMPOSSIBLE according to the law..
he also tries the same trick by getting people who are dead to think they are alive because they obey Gods commands so well.. Which is IMPOSSIBLE according to the law..
We do need to separate. We need to know the difference between the law given because of transgression and the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Otherwise, if we go back to the law given because of transgression and attempt to obey it in the power of our own flesh and will, we make ourselves into transgressors again.
We must know that it is not by our power that we are saved. We must know that it is not by our power that the commandments are kept. We must know not to rely on the power of our own flesh and will but rely on His Power who is strong when we are weak.
We must learn to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. We must learn that without Him we can do nothing. We must learn that HE leads us into paths of righteousness.
The law was given to people because they rejected Grace. The law is still for the people who reject grace. The law is to show you that you need Grace!!! How can you theorize that you are supposed to reject grace everyday in order to see your sin, to be a better Christian???
Its better to just abide in Christ.
Philippians 4:7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
One more final thought. Did the commandments ever cause anyone to try to crucify their flesh? Does the bible show anyone doing this?
The commandments cause us to seek Life. They cause us to cry out to our Saviour. They lead us to Christ. Christ Jesus leads us in the paths of righteousness.
Romans 8:12-13
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Not by going back to a carnal commandment to obey it in the flesh. There is a way that seems right unto a man but the end thereof is death. Whenever we go back to our own will and effort in keeping commandments this is the result. That seems to go against all mens logic and wisdom, doesn't it?
Otherwise, if we go back to the law given because of transgression and attempt to obey it in the power of our own flesh and will, we make ourselves into transgressors again.
We must know that it is not by our power that we are saved. We must know that it is not by our power that the commandments are kept. We must know not to rely on the power of our own flesh and will but rely on His Power who is strong when we are weak.
We must learn to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. We must learn that without Him we can do nothing. We must learn that HE leads us into paths of righteousness.
The law was given to people because they rejected Grace. The law is still for the people who reject grace. The law is to show you that you need Grace!!! How can you theorize that you are supposed to reject grace everyday in order to see your sin, to be a better Christian???
Its better to just abide in Christ.
Philippians 4:7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
One more final thought. Did the commandments ever cause anyone to try to crucify their flesh? Does the bible show anyone doing this?
The commandments cause us to seek Life. They cause us to cry out to our Saviour. They lead us to Christ. Christ Jesus leads us in the paths of righteousness.
Romans 8:12-13
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Not by going back to a carnal commandment to obey it in the flesh. There is a way that seems right unto a man but the end thereof is death. Whenever we go back to our own will and effort in keeping commandments this is the result. That seems to go against all mens logic and wisdom, doesn't it?
You can't read me. You only have the data that I give you. Everything else is pre-concieved.. but,, that is not the point that needs to be made...
I have investigated every known Christian doctrine. I have studied their claims and their teachings. I studied Catholicsim as well as Protestantism. Every doctrine i have read and studied. I have found error in every doctrine that i have read when placed against the scripture with the exception of one. After a 4 year study in which i set out to find an error so that I might cast that doctrine aside,,I failed. Even to this day, I cannot find error in the Doctrine that I now call the Truth.
You have admitted to me that you have not studied every denomination to know what exactly they each teach.. Because of this admission,, you should disqualify yourself from claiming to be "in the know".
I got chores to do,, have a nice day.
I have investigated every known Christian doctrine. I have studied their claims and their teachings. I studied Catholicsim as well as Protestantism. Every doctrine i have read and studied. I have found error in every doctrine that i have read when placed against the scripture with the exception of one. After a 4 year study in which i set out to find an error so that I might cast that doctrine aside,,I failed. Even to this day, I cannot find error in the Doctrine that I now call the Truth.
You have admitted to me that you have not studied every denomination to know what exactly they each teach.. Because of this admission,, you should disqualify yourself from claiming to be "in the know".
I got chores to do,, have a nice day.
S
That goes back to the same argument though, eternally-grateful. I'm sure you'd agree that if we love Him, we will do what He says. This can't be about that or this would be simple. We'd simply go forward living our lives rejecting sin and doing our best to do good works for the purpose of giving God the glory He is due. Again and again, this isn't about earning salvation. For those that think they can, that's another problem entirely. I frankly don't know any Christians personally that think by keeping the commandments under their own strength aside from Christ's sacrifice on the cross and with the help of the Holy Spirit they can earn salvation. This only comes down to whether or not the 7th day law is still applicable, and that's only because I'm sure you'd agree that every other law in the 10 commandments are still applicable.
Backwards, or sort of out of order? Could be, but the first sacrifice was God killing the animal to make coats of skin to cover Adam and Eve’s nakedness. Just thought I'd bring that to your remembrance.
Why do people want to go back to the moral law? That's a pretty scary question when Jesus Christ said these two things.
Matthew 5:17-20 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
The entire Bible is not a timetable according to our own estimations. We don't go backwards to the Old Testament. If we claim the law as something that is in the past, then we would not have any reason to want to be saved from it every day as Paul declared and Christ confirmed.
1 Corinthians 15:30-31 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Luke 9:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
It is profitable to lose our lives every day via the law we are no longer under. The law is like the heat that melts metal and the impurities come to the surface, accessible to be scraped off. Consider yourself being melted by the tool God has given us called the schoolmaster. Do unbelievers want a schoolmaster? Just a rhetorical question there.
1 Peter 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Why do people want to go back to the moral law? That's a pretty scary question when Jesus Christ said these two things.
Matthew 5:17-20 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
The entire Bible is not a timetable according to our own estimations. We don't go backwards to the Old Testament. If we claim the law as something that is in the past, then we would not have any reason to want to be saved from it every day as Paul declared and Christ confirmed.
1 Corinthians 15:30-31 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Luke 9:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
It is profitable to lose our lives every day via the law we are no longer under. The law is like the heat that melts metal and the impurities come to the surface, accessible to be scraped off. Consider yourself being melted by the tool God has given us called the schoolmaster. Do unbelievers want a schoolmaster? Just a rhetorical question there.
1 Peter 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
No one has answered this question the five or more times I have asked, three at least posting also several direct quotes of teaching from the Master.
It tends to convince me these folks cannot respond, and they are stuck in their own stubborness. Also I have seen people who have not been in on the thread agreeing with some without the slightest knowledge as to what the exchanges are all about. God bless all in Yeshua, amen.
It tends to convince me these folks cannot respond, and they are stuck in their own stubborness. Also I have seen people who have not been in on the thread agreeing with some without the slightest knowledge as to what the exchanges are all about. God bless all in Yeshua, amen.
S
I'm afraid it's because it the only question that cuts straight to the core of the debate, throwing aside all the "beside the point because that's already a given" argumentation. All of us, and I do mean every last one of us are continually coming to the full knowledge of God as we mature in Christ. Am I right? Sure this should only be about seeking that full knowledge and not ever about defending our stand on any single doctrine because we can't stand to be found wrong. We're all wrong on those things we have not yet come to the full knowledge concerning.
Last edited by a moderator:
There is only 1 correct answer to the following question. It will surely explain itself:
In the Judgment day I will be saved if;
A. I maintain an excellant record of good works
B. I love the Lord, regardless of whether or not I obey the 10 Commandments.
c. My Personal relationship with Jesus leads me to obey all His Commandments.
My answer is C. If yours isn't,,then something is amiss.
In the Judgment day I will be saved if;
A. I maintain an excellant record of good works
B. I love the Lord, regardless of whether or not I obey the 10 Commandments.
c. My Personal relationship with Jesus leads me to obey all His Commandments.
My answer is C. If yours isn't,,then something is amiss.
Originally Posted by Shiloah
I KNOW you weren't addressing me eternally-grateful, so I hope you don't mind my interjecting. By what you're saying do you mean that since we can't earn our salvation we then are free to not keep the commandments Christ asked us to keep?
Now I'll ask you (or anyone else) a question: When you are dead will it matter what society's laws are?
You are mixing comparisons here paraphrasing when God swore by Himself because there was nothing greater than He, while men swear on things greater than they.
As far as those so-called greater commandments. Yeshua, Jesus, teaches if we obey the two great laws of Love we fulfill the law and the prophets for they both hang on those two greatest commandments which are by no means introduced by Jesus in the flesh, they are part of the law of Moses.
Now by virtue of the reality that our Lord bothered to mention all the law and the prophets hang on those two greatest laws means the laws are yet important to consult when ignorant of them.
As far as the Ten Commandments are concerned, nowhere in the Word is it written or taught that Yeshua filfilled these commandments. You see it is the law that needed to be fulfilled. Commandments are the desires of our Maker for our conduct.
It is obvious you, and those of your ilk will contrive anything to support your man made teaching that grace means to not worry about the Ten Commandments and desires of our Father for our conduct.
It is an abomination to think the Ten Commandments are not to still be used as a model for good, decent and moral behavior.
Now how ridiculous does it sound that Jesus, Yeshua, completed our behavior. This is saying we may disrespect our Parents, we may kill, we may steal, we may have other gods before us, we may fashion idols and worsip them.......and to the tenth. This is insanity, and not nice. Our behavior is behaving according to Yahweh, God, in other words obedience when He informs us of a course of action, nothing more, nothing less. Jesus does not behave for us during our walk in this age, He does pay for our sins, and we do walk in grace. Now, try very hard to see the difference.
As far as those so-called greater commandments. Yeshua, Jesus, teaches if we obey the two great laws of Love we fulfill the law and the prophets for they both hang on those two greatest commandments which are by no means introduced by Jesus in the flesh, they are part of the law of Moses.
Now by virtue of the reality that our Lord bothered to mention all the law and the prophets hang on those two greatest laws means the laws are yet important to consult when ignorant of them.
As far as the Ten Commandments are concerned, nowhere in the Word is it written or taught that Yeshua filfilled these commandments. You see it is the law that needed to be fulfilled. Commandments are the desires of our Maker for our conduct.
It is obvious you, and those of your ilk will contrive anything to support your man made teaching that grace means to not worry about the Ten Commandments and desires of our Father for our conduct.
It is an abomination to think the Ten Commandments are not to still be used as a model for good, decent and moral behavior.
Now how ridiculous does it sound that Jesus, Yeshua, completed our behavior. This is saying we may disrespect our Parents, we may kill, we may steal, we may have other gods before us, we may fashion idols and worsip them.......and to the tenth. This is insanity, and not nice. Our behavior is behaving according to Yahweh, God, in other words obedience when He informs us of a course of action, nothing more, nothing less. Jesus does not behave for us during our walk in this age, He does pay for our sins, and we do walk in grace. Now, try very hard to see the difference.
Last edited: