Is Hell a Physical Place?

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Shiloah

Guest
#21
#21
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish-- but have eternal life. (as in, whoever believes did not have eternal life until God gave it to him, and they would have died if they hadn't received it.)

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#22
#22
Shiloah said:
I like it better because it's not a false teaching. It's the truth. I myself am not worried about going to hell. I'm saved by grace. And yeah, eternal torture would go against God's nature because He just, compassionate, and true. No fault can be found in Him.
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Should I infer from your statement that, you believe all who disagree with your view on hell to be misled from false teaching? Maybe I didn't understand you correctly.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#23
#23
NiceneCreed said:
Should I infer from your statement that, you believe all who disagree with your view on hell to be misled from false teaching? Maybe I didn't understand you correctly.
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Well yeah. Don't you believe I'm a false teacher? You think I have no right to believe in my position as you do? The only difference between you and me is that I don't think anyone will be going to hell and burn forever for believing hell is eternal torment. I do; however, believe it is a false teaching that drives people away because it isn't consistent with not only a ton of other scriptures, it misrepresents God.
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#24
#24
Shiloah said:
Well yeah. Don't you believe I'm a false teacher? You think I have no right to believe in my position as you do? The only difference between you and me is that I don't think anyone will be going to hell and burn forever for believing hell is eternal torment. I do; however, believe it is a false teaching that drives people away because it isn't consistent with not only a ton of other scriptures, it misrepresents God.
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I never said I believed you were a false teacher. The truth of the matter is, I may be wrong about my views of hell, and I am willing to accept I am wrong, in the event someone shows me good evidence as to why I should not believe what I believe. But to make claims people who disagree with you misrepresent God, is quite a bold statement indeed.
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#25
#25
Shiloah said:
Well yeah. Don't you believe I'm a false teacher? You think I have no right to believe in my position as you do? The only difference between you and me is that I don't think anyone will be going to hell and burn forever for believing hell is eternal torment. I do; however, believe it is a false teaching that drives people away because it isn't consistent with not only a ton of other scriptures, it misrepresents God.
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Furthermore, I would agree people can and do misrepresent God when their teachings stray from the norm of major doctrinal issues such as, the Hypo-static Union, Salvation, Grace, the Trinity, etc. But one should not make the claim individuals are false teachers for minor doctrinal issues (in this case, the description of hell); to do this is quite insulting.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#26
#26
NiceneCreed said:
Furthermore, I would agree people can and do misrepresent God when their teachings stray from the norm of major doctrinal issues such as, the Hypo-static Union, Salvation, Grace, the Trinity, etc. But one should not make the claim individuals are false teachers for minor doctrinal issues (in this case, the description of hell); to do this is quite insulting.
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I agree with you on that. I also understand that this doctrine has been taught since who knows when. Forgive me if I've impled you are a false teacher. One can only do the best one can in any of these areas of doctrine, and I know I am still continually learning. False teacher is a harsh way of putting it. Again, I really think it's become a huge misunderstanding. I think Jesus when addressing the Sadducees about their belief that there was no resurrection told them they just didn't understand scriptures regarding that. He didn't tell them they were a bunch of false teachers based on that doctrine. Again, He just told them they hadn't interpreted scriptures correctly on that topic. I do think it's a false teaching, but what I mean by that is that it's simply incorrect due to a misunderstanding of scriptures.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#27
May 17, 2013
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#27
NiceneCreed said:
Physical materials cannot burn forever. This is why I think of hell as a place of eternal spiritual torment. I think when hell was referenced as a place of fire throughout the Bible, fire was simply used as an allegory to explain the extent of spiritual torment. Can you think of a better way to explain what one might suffer in hell spiritually, other than using fire as an example? Anyway, these are my personal opinions, and I know I may be wrong about hell, but I am certain I will never find out one way or another; by the grace of Christ! Thank you, and God Bless!
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Mark 9:41-50 Is very descriptive about hell and fire and eternal torment.
Was the bush that burned before Moses consumed? Let's not underestimate God's ability to do that which He pleases. Since we will be at the Great White Throne judgment I must say we will see the lake of fire and we will observe death and hell cast therein. We are not judged but we will be in the multitudes that surround the throne.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#28
#28
notuptome said:
Mark 9:41-50 Is very descriptive about hell and fire and eternal torment.
Was the bush that burned before Moses consumed? Let's not underestimate God's ability to do that which He pleases. Since we will be at the Great White Throne judgment I must say we will see the lake of fire and we will observe death and hell cast therein. We are not judged but we will be in the multitudes that surround the throne.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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You make a valid point!
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#29
#29
Shiloah said:
I agree with you on that. I also understand that this doctrine has been taught since who knows when. Forgive me if I've impled you are a false teacher. One can only do the best one can in any of these areas of doctrine, and I know I am still continually learning. False teacher is a harsh way of putting it. Again, I really think it's become a huge misunderstanding. I think Jesus when addressing the Sadducees about their belief that there was no resurrection told them they just didn't understand scriptures regarding that. He didn't tell them they were a bunch of false teachers based on that doctrine. Again, He just told them they hadn't interpreted scriptures correctly on that topic. I do think it's a false teaching, but what I mean by that is that it's simply incorrect due to a misunderstanding of scriptures.
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No worries. I see you have a great zeal for interpreting God's Word.

Grace and Peace!
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#30
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#30
Shiloah said:
If you go with that reasoning, then hell is destroyed in the lake of fire. Which I guess is what you're saying.... lol. Or maybe you're not... can't tell for sure... :eek:
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Eccl 3:14 What ever God doeth it is forever. The wrath of God is eternal. The destruction on sin, death and hell will be eternal. The suffering of those who are condemned is indeed eternal. The smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and for ever. Rev 14:11
God's righteousness demands full satisfaction in judgment. Do not underestimate the severity of His wrath upon sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#32
#32
notuptome said:
Mark 9:41-50 Is very descriptive about hell and fire and eternal torment.
Was the bush that burned before Moses consumed? Let's not underestimate God's ability to do that which He pleases. Since we will be at the Great White Throne judgment I must say we will see the lake of fire and we will observe death and hell cast therein. We are not judged but we will be in the multitudes that surround the throne.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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[SUP]Mark 9: 41-50 [/SUP]For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,[SUP][a][/SUP] it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. [SUP]43 [/SUP]And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell,[SUP][b][/SUP] to the unquenchable fire.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]45 [/SUP]And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. [SUP]47 [/SUP]And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, [SUP]48 [/SUP]‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ [SUP]49 [/SUP]For everyone will be salted with fire.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]50 [/SUP]Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.”

This doesn't say anything about hell fire burning conscious sinners for eternity. Unquenchable means it cannot be put out. Scriptures say what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah represents what will happen to the earth on judgment day.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all (Lk. 17:28-29).

2 Peter 2:6 Later, God condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and turned them into heaps of ashes. He made them an example of what will happen to ungodly people.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#33
#33
notuptome said:
Eccl 3:14 What ever God doeth it is forever. The wrath of God is eternal. The destruction on sin, death and hell will be eternal. The suffering of those who are condemned is indeed eternal. The smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and for ever. Rev 14:11
God's righteousness demands full satisfaction in judgment. Do not underestimate the severity of His wrath upon sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I really don't think God is going to be mad forever. The results are permanent. Yeah. People instantly jump to the conclusion if people don't burn in never-ending torment, they won't be punished. I'd sure hate to see Jesus come and judge the whole earth, know I'd rejected Him and would not receive eternal life and then be thrown into the lake of fire. Thank you very much. lol.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#34
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#34
Shiloah said:
[SUP]Mark 9: 41-50 [/SUP]For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,[SUP][a][/SUP] it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. [SUP]43 [/SUP]And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell,[SUP][b][/SUP] to the unquenchable fire.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]45 [/SUP]And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. [SUP]47 [/SUP]And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, [SUP]48 [/SUP]‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ [SUP]49 [/SUP]For everyone will be salted with fire.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]50 [/SUP]Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.”

This doesn't say anything about hell fire burning conscious sinners for eternity. Unquenchable means it cannot be put out. Scriptures say what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah represents what will happen to the earth on judgment day.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all (Lk. 17:28-29).

2 Peter 2:6 Later, God condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and turned them into heaps of ashes. He made them an example of what will happen to ungodly people.
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Why did you omit verses 44 and 46? You left 48 in there and it clearly says that their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were burned to ashes but what of the souls that were returned to God for judgment?
The redeemed believe that they shall have resurrected bodies like unto Christ. Why is it so difficult that the condemned we receive their bodies suited for condemnation? The condemned are raised for judgment at the GWT. They are not restored and made whole but they resurrected unto condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
B

Bluecomet

Guest
#35
#35
Yes. Hell is a physical place.
 
B

Bluecomet

Guest
#36
#36
God has seven bowls of wrath He is going to pour out upon the earth. This is to settle His anger so He can judge the world fairly.
 
S

Shiloah

Guest
#37
#37
notuptome said:
Why did you omit verses 44 and 46? You left 48 in there and it clearly says that their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were burned to ashes but what of the souls that were returned to God for judgment?
The redeemed believe that they shall have resurrected bodies like unto Christ. Why is it so difficult that the condemned we receive their bodies suited for condemnation? The condemned are raised for judgment at the GWT. They are not restored and made whole but they resurrected unto condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Sorry, I must have emitted them by accident. As for those worms and that fire, I addressed that in my earlier post about what Gehenna actually represents. It's that garbage dump? Please go back and reread that. As for your belief in an eternal soul? There is nowhere in all of scriptures that a soul is said to be immortal. Nowhere. It says, however, in many many places that when we die, we're dead. You should look up some online articles that will actually tackle this. You can't go with one or two NT scriptures that seem to imply never-ending torment when that interpretation would make the whole bible contradict itself. The Old Testament says we die just like the animals do. Genesis says that when God breathed the breath of life into man, man BECAME a living soul. God didn't breath an immortal soul into Adam. And when God told Adam he would die if He ate from that tree, He meant die, return to the dust. He said nothing about an eternal soul. Check out all the translations. Most don't even use the word "soul". To assume the souls in Sodom and Gomorrah are waiting in conscious torment in some other place but ashes, you have to already believe in an immortal soul. That has to be a presupposition in order to interpret those scriptures that way... cause they just don't say that.

At the last trump, the dead shall rise. Why aren't immortal souls coming out of hell? You think God is bringing up their ashes for them to go into again? That makes sense to you?

Note: Post #18 covers Gehenna.
 
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jb

Senior Member
#39
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#39
The Hebrew word 'sheol' and Greek word 'Hades' are speaking of the same place; before the death and Resurrection of Christ, everybody (both believer and unbeliever) went there (see Luke 16v19-31), the unbeliever went into one side of it which also contained the Abyss/'bottomless pit' and Tartarus (Rom 10v7, 2Pet 2v4), the believer went into the other side and was comforted by their faith in the resurrection and the Holy Spirit, being so to speak 'in the bosom of Moses'. However, after His death and Resurrection the believer, at death retains their spirit, so that their soul and spirit ascend into the Presence of God in Heaven (NOTE: there is NO such thing as 'soul sleep', the Scriptures do NOT teach it!). 2Cor 5v8, Phil 1v23, Heb 12v23. The unbeliever still goes into Hades at death. Rev 20v13. Death and Hades are cast into the 'Lake of Fire' immediately after the Great White Throne judgement. Rev 20v14. Hades is God's temporary prison, for all come out of it at the Great White Throne judgement.

Nobody (either humans or evil angels) has gone into the 'Lake of Fire' (which is God's eternal prison, for once somebody has been put into it, they never comes out!) yet, the first to go into it are Antichrist, the false prophet, Antichrist's followers, the rest of the wicked and the evil angels (bar the Devil who is put into Hades at Christ's Second Coming, Rev 20v1-3) at Christ's Second Coming. Matt 13v36-43, 24v45-25v46, Rev 14v9-11, 19v20,21. At the Great White Throne judgement, those who's names are not written in the 'Book of Life' are cast into the 'lake of fire'. Rev 20v15.

For those interested you can find a bit of a study on it Here

Yahweh Shalom...
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#40
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
59
0
#40
Hell is outer darkness, where the Spirit of God is not.
It is a spiritual place.
But more real than this material universe we live in. - (As this physical universe is changing constantly and eventually will be burned up).
But the Spirit dimension is pretty much eternal. - (heaven and hell)
Whether the flames are allegorical or not, one thing is for certain - if that's the best physical representation for how hell is, then it must be an utterly awful place.
 
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