Sunday - the first day of the week
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Zone,
You said: "Jewish Rabbis don't even know what day the 7th day really is. Saturday is a day CHOSEN to be Sabbath. oops...maybe it's really Sunday."
Zone, are you aware that the Jew has always kept the Sabbath on the 7th Day? Are you aware that the Church of Rome admits to changing Gods Sabbath from the 7th Day to the 1st day of the week?
Martin Luther was given much light. Had he the knowledge of Gods Sabbath, you would be keeping the 7th day, instead of posting about the 1st.
"Come out of her, my people" Rev 18:4
You said: "Jewish Rabbis don't even know what day the 7th day really is. Saturday is a day CHOSEN to be Sabbath. oops...maybe it's really Sunday."
Zone, are you aware that the Jew has always kept the Sabbath on the 7th Day? Are you aware that the Church of Rome admits to changing Gods Sabbath from the 7th Day to the 1st day of the week?
Martin Luther was given much light. Had he the knowledge of Gods Sabbath, you would be keeping the 7th day, instead of posting about the 1st.
"Come out of her, my people" Rev 18:4
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what day does a jewish man in japan keep while his brother on the other side of the globe is keeping the sabbath?
do they both keep sabbath on the same day?
or is one keeping it on Friday while the other on Saturday?
jews have always kept sabbath.
what has that to do with The New Covenant? < jews are not in the New Covenant. they are laboring under a corruption of the old, which doesn't even exist.
no one has EVER said Jesus changed the sabbath from one day to the other.
HE FULFILLED IT.
christians from earliest times assembled; and worshipped on Sunday. - pre-Constantine.
i'm not reposting all that.
you do as you feel led.
tired of arguing with you.
ta.
do they both keep sabbath on the same day?
or is one keeping it on Friday while the other on Saturday?
jews have always kept sabbath.
what has that to do with The New Covenant? < jews are not in the New Covenant. they are laboring under a corruption of the old, which doesn't even exist.
no one has EVER said Jesus changed the sabbath from one day to the other.
HE FULFILLED IT.
christians from earliest times assembled; and worshipped on Sunday. - pre-Constantine.
i'm not reposting all that.
you do as you feel led.
tired of arguing with you.
ta.
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S
Wall, I'm just sure they lost track of what day of the week it was somewhere along the way. It's such an easy thing to do when you're religious beliefs have everything to do with what day the sabbath falls on. One day everyone looked around and asked everyone else if they remember what day it is, and by golly, absolutely everyone had forgotten.
The Sabbath, the International Date Line and Jewish Law
How does the change in Samoa affect Sabbath for the local Jews?
By Yehuda Shurpin
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E-mail Discuss (13)
Samoa
Dear Rabbi,
Now that the Pacific island of Samoa has changed from the east side of the International Date Line to the west—to be in sync with Australia and New Zealand, its main sources of tourism and business—I’ve been wondering if there are any implications in Jewish law.
When will Samoan Jews and Jewish tourists observe the Sabbath?
Answer:
You ask a good question. Jews worldwide celebrate the Sabbath, or Shabbat, on the seventh day of the week. But what happens when a country skips a day and changes their Friday to Saturday?
The concept of a date line, and the fact that a traveler would either gain or lose a day after circumnavigating the globe, had been discussed in Jewish works hundreds of years before the establishment of the International Date Line.
In fact, the first to articulate the need for a date line was the Jewish philosopher Rabbi Yehudah Halevi (1075–1141), in his classic work, the Kuzari.1
History of the International Date Line
In 1884 Greenwich, England, was chosen as the central point for time and date calculations (the prime meridian), and the International Date Line sits at exactly 180° longitude from there.
By using Greenwich as the prime meridian, the International Date Line falls conveniently in the Pacific Ocean. In those few areas where it should traverse a landmass, the line was slightly bent to avoid dividing countries.
The date line is not governed by international law, and it is up to the individual countries to choose which side of the line they wish to be on. Occasionally a country decides to switch sides, as the islands of Samoa and Tokelau did last week.
To determine the Jewish view on the date line and Sabbath observance, we must examine four major opinions in halachah, Jewish law.
1. 90° East of Jerusalem
Rabbi Zerachiah ben Isaac Halevi Gerondi2 (12th century) and Rabbi Yehudah Halevi3 opined that the date line runs 90° east of Jerusalem.
The reasoning behind their opinion is that we consider Israel, and more specifically Jerusalem, to be the center of the “inhabited” world (at that time). In other words, six hours, or 90°, to the east and west of Jerusalem at one time encompassed the entire known world. The other side of the world (i.e. the western hemisphere) was considered the “lands of the sea.” Since the day begins to the east of Jerusalem, the quarter of the world to the west of Jerusalem, together with the entire western hemisphere, completes the day. Thus, the date line is 90°, a quarter of the globe, east of Jerusalem, or about 125° east of Greenwich.
The problem with this is that the date line would cut right through two huge landmasses—Asia (Russia, China, Korea) and Australia—and several Southeast Asian islands. You could end up with two people standing right next to each other, where for one the Sabbath is starting and for the other it is ending!4
As such, Rabbi Avraham Yeshayah Karelitz, known as the Chazon Ish, bases the 90° on the knowledge that the major landmass to the east of Jerusalem ends at that point. Since the entire landmass is on one side of the date line, the line actually zigzags, and so Siberia, Korea, eastern China, and Australia are considered to be on the west of the date line, while Japan and New Zealand are on the east side.5
According to the Chazon Ish’s date line, Sabbath in Japan and New Zealand is actually on Sunday.6
2. 180° East of Jerusalem
Rabbi Yechiel Michel Tucazinsky says that the date line runs 180° east of Jerusalem. He explains that because Jerusalem is considered the center of the land given to the Jewish people, it is also considered the center of the world according to Jewish law.7 Therefore, the date line would be located exactly 180° opposite Jerusalem, which would also enable every Jew in the world to observe at least 12 hours of the Sabbath together with those who live in Jerusalem.8
Since Jerusalem is 35° east of Greenwich, the date line would be 35° east of the current International Date Line, or 145° west of Greenwich. Accordingly, Hawaii and parts of Alaska would be on the western side of the date line, and the Sabbath in Hawaii would be on Friday.
However, it is possible that according to this opinion the line would zigzag around Alaska, in order that it follow the majority of the landmass.9
3. Mid-Pacific: Closely Resembling the International Date Line
Rabbi David Shapira opined that the date line is approximately 135°, or 9 hours, east of Jerusalem. This would make the date line approximately 170° east of Greenwich, which is only 10° off the International Date Line. According to R. Shapira, however, the line zigzags, slanting toward the Siberian coast as it goes through the Bering Straits, and then through the Pacific at 177°. Then it turns east of New Zealand.
His rationale for this placement is based on the statement of our sages that G‑d positioned the sun in the heavens at the end of the third hour of the fourth day of creation.10 Now, if it is the third hour of the day in Jerusalem, then three hours (45°) to the east of Jerusalem it would be noon, and nine hours (135°) east of Jerusalem the sun would be setting. To say that the sun was placed in the heavens on the fourth day, it must have been the fourth day on the entire planet. Therefore, we have to say that east of where the sun was setting, the fourth day was just beginning.11
Accordingly, Hawaii and Japan would observe the Sabbath on Saturday.
4. There is No Specific Date Line
According to Rabbi Menachem Kasher, since there is no clear tradition or Talmudic source, one should observe the Sabbath when the locals do. Since we, as individuals, are commanded to count six days and rest on the seventh12, when the first Jews settled in remote areas (over a long period of time), they simply continued counting six days and resting on the seventh. It was only later, when travel became more frequent, that the question of changing the dates arose.13
As such, there is no need for any community to change dates from their established custom (which is basically the same as following the International Date Line). However, travelers continue counting six days from the last Sabbath they observed, and the seventh day is the Sabbath. Only once the travelers arrive at their destination would they follow the local Jewish community’s Sabbath.14
The Samoa Issue
The Jewish Telegraphic Agency tracked down one Jew living in Samoa, and there may be many more. When would this person mark future Sabbaths?
It would depend on which of the above opinions he follows.
According to the first opinion—that the date line is 90° east of Jerusalem—then it runs west of Samoa, so until now the Sabbath was on Saturday. But now that Samoa has switched to the western side of the International Date Line, Sabbath would actually be on Sunday.
According to the second opinion—that the date line runs 180° east of Jerusalem—these islands, as well as Hawaii, were always west of the line. So until now the Sabbath in Samoa was actually on Friday, but now it will be on Saturday.
If, according to the third opinion, we say that the date line is 135° east of Jerusalem, then it runs to the west of Fiji. This means that until now the Sabbath in Samoa was on Saturday, but from now on it will be on Sunday.
According to the last opinion, Sabbath observance is based on an existing Jewish community. If a traveler or tourist were to arrive on an island with no Jewish community, the traveler would continue to keep the Sabbath according to his or her individual count, as if still on a boat.15
In Conclusion
While there are a number of opinions about the date line within Jewish law, the fact that a country decided to arbitrarily alter the date line has no bearing on the Sabbath, other than to mix up the names of the days. We still work for six days and rest on the seventh, the Sabbath.
It is important to note that this is but a brief overview, and while it seems that most of the communities in the questionable areas observe the Sabbath on Saturday, the laws are complex. One should consult a seasoned, knowledgeable rabbi before traveling.
See How Do We Know Which Day Is Shabbat? from our minisite on Shabbat.
The Sabbath, the International Date Line and Jewish Law - How does the change in Samoa affect Sabbath for the local Jews? - Shabbat
How does the change in Samoa affect Sabbath for the local Jews?
By Yehuda Shurpin
Share
E-mail Discuss (13)
Samoa
Dear Rabbi,
Now that the Pacific island of Samoa has changed from the east side of the International Date Line to the west—to be in sync with Australia and New Zealand, its main sources of tourism and business—I’ve been wondering if there are any implications in Jewish law.
When will Samoan Jews and Jewish tourists observe the Sabbath?
Answer:
You ask a good question. Jews worldwide celebrate the Sabbath, or Shabbat, on the seventh day of the week. But what happens when a country skips a day and changes their Friday to Saturday?
The concept of a date line, and the fact that a traveler would either gain or lose a day after circumnavigating the globe, had been discussed in Jewish works hundreds of years before the establishment of the International Date Line.
In fact, the first to articulate the need for a date line was the Jewish philosopher Rabbi Yehudah Halevi (1075–1141), in his classic work, the Kuzari.1
History of the International Date Line
In 1884 Greenwich, England, was chosen as the central point for time and date calculations (the prime meridian), and the International Date Line sits at exactly 180° longitude from there.
By using Greenwich as the prime meridian, the International Date Line falls conveniently in the Pacific Ocean. In those few areas where it should traverse a landmass, the line was slightly bent to avoid dividing countries.
The date line is not governed by international law, and it is up to the individual countries to choose which side of the line they wish to be on. Occasionally a country decides to switch sides, as the islands of Samoa and Tokelau did last week.
To determine the Jewish view on the date line and Sabbath observance, we must examine four major opinions in halachah, Jewish law.
1. 90° East of Jerusalem
Rabbi Zerachiah ben Isaac Halevi Gerondi2 (12th century) and Rabbi Yehudah Halevi3 opined that the date line runs 90° east of Jerusalem.
The reasoning behind their opinion is that we consider Israel, and more specifically Jerusalem, to be the center of the “inhabited” world (at that time). In other words, six hours, or 90°, to the east and west of Jerusalem at one time encompassed the entire known world. The other side of the world (i.e. the western hemisphere) was considered the “lands of the sea.” Since the day begins to the east of Jerusalem, the quarter of the world to the west of Jerusalem, together with the entire western hemisphere, completes the day. Thus, the date line is 90°, a quarter of the globe, east of Jerusalem, or about 125° east of Greenwich.
The problem with this is that the date line would cut right through two huge landmasses—Asia (Russia, China, Korea) and Australia—and several Southeast Asian islands. You could end up with two people standing right next to each other, where for one the Sabbath is starting and for the other it is ending!4
As such, Rabbi Avraham Yeshayah Karelitz, known as the Chazon Ish, bases the 90° on the knowledge that the major landmass to the east of Jerusalem ends at that point. Since the entire landmass is on one side of the date line, the line actually zigzags, and so Siberia, Korea, eastern China, and Australia are considered to be on the west of the date line, while Japan and New Zealand are on the east side.5
According to the Chazon Ish’s date line, Sabbath in Japan and New Zealand is actually on Sunday.6
2. 180° East of Jerusalem
Rabbi Yechiel Michel Tucazinsky says that the date line runs 180° east of Jerusalem. He explains that because Jerusalem is considered the center of the land given to the Jewish people, it is also considered the center of the world according to Jewish law.7 Therefore, the date line would be located exactly 180° opposite Jerusalem, which would also enable every Jew in the world to observe at least 12 hours of the Sabbath together with those who live in Jerusalem.8
Since Jerusalem is 35° east of Greenwich, the date line would be 35° east of the current International Date Line, or 145° west of Greenwich. Accordingly, Hawaii and parts of Alaska would be on the western side of the date line, and the Sabbath in Hawaii would be on Friday.
However, it is possible that according to this opinion the line would zigzag around Alaska, in order that it follow the majority of the landmass.9
3. Mid-Pacific: Closely Resembling the International Date Line
Rabbi David Shapira opined that the date line is approximately 135°, or 9 hours, east of Jerusalem. This would make the date line approximately 170° east of Greenwich, which is only 10° off the International Date Line. According to R. Shapira, however, the line zigzags, slanting toward the Siberian coast as it goes through the Bering Straits, and then through the Pacific at 177°. Then it turns east of New Zealand.
His rationale for this placement is based on the statement of our sages that G‑d positioned the sun in the heavens at the end of the third hour of the fourth day of creation.10 Now, if it is the third hour of the day in Jerusalem, then three hours (45°) to the east of Jerusalem it would be noon, and nine hours (135°) east of Jerusalem the sun would be setting. To say that the sun was placed in the heavens on the fourth day, it must have been the fourth day on the entire planet. Therefore, we have to say that east of where the sun was setting, the fourth day was just beginning.11
Accordingly, Hawaii and Japan would observe the Sabbath on Saturday.
4. There is No Specific Date Line
According to Rabbi Menachem Kasher, since there is no clear tradition or Talmudic source, one should observe the Sabbath when the locals do. Since we, as individuals, are commanded to count six days and rest on the seventh12, when the first Jews settled in remote areas (over a long period of time), they simply continued counting six days and resting on the seventh. It was only later, when travel became more frequent, that the question of changing the dates arose.13
As such, there is no need for any community to change dates from their established custom (which is basically the same as following the International Date Line). However, travelers continue counting six days from the last Sabbath they observed, and the seventh day is the Sabbath. Only once the travelers arrive at their destination would they follow the local Jewish community’s Sabbath.14
The Samoa Issue
The Jewish Telegraphic Agency tracked down one Jew living in Samoa, and there may be many more. When would this person mark future Sabbaths?
It would depend on which of the above opinions he follows.
According to the first opinion—that the date line is 90° east of Jerusalem—then it runs west of Samoa, so until now the Sabbath was on Saturday. But now that Samoa has switched to the western side of the International Date Line, Sabbath would actually be on Sunday.
According to the second opinion—that the date line runs 180° east of Jerusalem—these islands, as well as Hawaii, were always west of the line. So until now the Sabbath in Samoa was actually on Friday, but now it will be on Saturday.
If, according to the third opinion, we say that the date line is 135° east of Jerusalem, then it runs to the west of Fiji. This means that until now the Sabbath in Samoa was on Saturday, but from now on it will be on Sunday.
According to the last opinion, Sabbath observance is based on an existing Jewish community. If a traveler or tourist were to arrive on an island with no Jewish community, the traveler would continue to keep the Sabbath according to his or her individual count, as if still on a boat.15
In Conclusion
While there are a number of opinions about the date line within Jewish law, the fact that a country decided to arbitrarily alter the date line has no bearing on the Sabbath, other than to mix up the names of the days. We still work for six days and rest on the seventh, the Sabbath.
It is important to note that this is but a brief overview, and while it seems that most of the communities in the questionable areas observe the Sabbath on Saturday, the laws are complex. One should consult a seasoned, knowledgeable rabbi before traveling.
See How Do We Know Which Day Is Shabbat? from our minisite on Shabbat.
The Sabbath, the International Date Line and Jewish Law - How does the change in Samoa affect Sabbath for the local Jews? - Shabbat
S
You have determined that He fulfilled it. What the sabbath has to do with sacrificial laws which were the actual shadow of Christ's fulfillment you so often speak of I do not know. I realize you say Christ is now our rest, but that's never said in scriptures, at least not that Christ's coming replaced that commandment. Again, it's an excuse that's been concocted in order not to have to change the day back to the 7th day of the week as God asked in scripture. The 7th day sabbath was put into place to identify the Israelites as God's people, the CREATOR'S people, because the creator created heaven and earth in six days and rested on the 7th. Their keeping sabbath identified their God as the creator, not like the other gods worshiped by pagans. We are now God's people. Am I right? Hence, we have inherited the full promise of God, which includes keeping His commandments because we love Him.
by Golly you're just such a clever gal
How do you know that you are celebrating on the right day?
"How did it begin? When Adam was banished from Eden on the first Friday afternoon of Creation, he rested that first Shabbat. He then counted six days and again rested on the seventh. Ever since, his offspring in many parts of the world have emulated this practice, living their lives by a seven-day week."
......
you got that in your Bible Shiloah?
......
How Do We Know Which Day is Shabbat?
By Menachem Posner
In the Bible it says to rest on the seventh day of the week, because G‑d created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Today Christians rest on Sunday, Muslims rest on Friday, and Jews rest on Saturday. How do you know that you are celebrating on the right day?
Answer:
Your very question was dealt with by the Midrash Rabbah, a compilation close to 2,000 years old.
We were first commanded to keep Shabbat in the desert shortly after we left Egypt. How did we know when to keep it? In Exodus 17, we are told that during our journey in the desert, manna fell every day except for one—the Shabbat. So what did we eat then? A double portion fell every Friday so that we would have what to eat the next day as well. On the first Friday after the manna began to fall, the people were surprised to see so much manna—double that which they had received on each of the past five days. When they came to ask Moses about this phenomenon, he revealed that the next day would be the Shabbat and that no manna would fall at all.
The actual wording of G‑d's message to Moses and the Jewish People is "See that G‑d has given to you the Shabbat." The Midrash points out that the word used is "see" and not "know." It explains:
This is what G‑d was saying to them: "If the idolaters will come to you and ask, 'Why do you make the Shabbat day on this day?' you will tell them, 'See, the manna does not fall on the Shabbat.'"
For the next 40 years we had a weekly reminder of the Shabbat every time the manna did not fall. Since then, we have continued to keep count and will continue to do so for the rest of time.
Rabbi Yehuda Halevi in his 12th century classic, "The Kuzari," points to an earlier source for the universally accepted week. He points to the striking fact that the vast majority of the world keeps a seven-day week—evidence that this must be a very ancient custom indeed. How did it begin? When Adam was banished from Eden on the first Friday afternoon of Creation, he rested that first Shabbat. He then counted six days and again rested on the seventh. Ever since, his offspring in many parts of the world have emulated this practice, living their lives by a seven-day week.
How Do We Know Which Day is Shabbat? - Shabbat
How do you know that you are celebrating on the right day?
"How did it begin? When Adam was banished from Eden on the first Friday afternoon of Creation, he rested that first Shabbat. He then counted six days and again rested on the seventh. Ever since, his offspring in many parts of the world have emulated this practice, living their lives by a seven-day week."
......
you got that in your Bible Shiloah?
......
How Do We Know Which Day is Shabbat?
By Menachem Posner
In the Bible it says to rest on the seventh day of the week, because G‑d created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Today Christians rest on Sunday, Muslims rest on Friday, and Jews rest on Saturday. How do you know that you are celebrating on the right day?
Answer:
Your very question was dealt with by the Midrash Rabbah, a compilation close to 2,000 years old.
We were first commanded to keep Shabbat in the desert shortly after we left Egypt. How did we know when to keep it? In Exodus 17, we are told that during our journey in the desert, manna fell every day except for one—the Shabbat. So what did we eat then? A double portion fell every Friday so that we would have what to eat the next day as well. On the first Friday after the manna began to fall, the people were surprised to see so much manna—double that which they had received on each of the past five days. When they came to ask Moses about this phenomenon, he revealed that the next day would be the Shabbat and that no manna would fall at all.
The actual wording of G‑d's message to Moses and the Jewish People is "See that G‑d has given to you the Shabbat." The Midrash points out that the word used is "see" and not "know." It explains:
This is what G‑d was saying to them: "If the idolaters will come to you and ask, 'Why do you make the Shabbat day on this day?' you will tell them, 'See, the manna does not fall on the Shabbat.'"
For the next 40 years we had a weekly reminder of the Shabbat every time the manna did not fall. Since then, we have continued to keep count and will continue to do so for the rest of time.
Rabbi Yehuda Halevi in his 12th century classic, "The Kuzari," points to an earlier source for the universally accepted week. He points to the striking fact that the vast majority of the world keeps a seven-day week—evidence that this must be a very ancient custom indeed. How did it begin? When Adam was banished from Eden on the first Friday afternoon of Creation, he rested that first Shabbat. He then counted six days and again rested on the seventh. Ever since, his offspring in many parts of the world have emulated this practice, living their lives by a seven-day week.
How Do We Know Which Day is Shabbat? - Shabbat