Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[zone]

I was saved in HS and had been a Christian for about 10 years when I started hearing about the Torah and the Hebrew Roots of Christianity. I started keeping the Sabbath and the Biblical Feast Days about 9 years ago. From there, I started eating kosher and working on some of the other Torah-based Instructions.

I've never put my hope of salvation in nothing less than the life, death and resurrection of Jesus/Yeshua. I'm not Jewish and I don't want to be Jewish. The reason I try to follow the Torah to the best of my ability is to lead a life that is as much of an example of my Savior and the life that He lived, and to walk in practical and physical obedience to the commands that He's set forth for His people to follow.

hi KohenMatt.
could you define exactly what you mean by Torah?
t.y.

 

[Grandpa]

Please refer to post #249. Thank you.

The problem is that doesn't glorify God. Your things in post #249.

If that glorified God then the old hebrew way would be what we all follow.

There was a need for Christ and a New Way.

Interjecting the old way with the new way is a common mistake. All that ends up happening is you are attempting to mix hot with cold. Flesh and Spirit. Life and Death.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wasn't it a wonderful moment for you when you found the truth of God, when you discovered it was deeper than the doing. God opens Himself to each of us in such personal ways.

Yes it was. When I found that tradition and ritual of religion is not what made me closer to God or more Holy. It was having a personal relationship with God.

After knowing this, it is just as freeing for others to learn of the blessings of special ways of doing that expresses worship of God. I hope this understanding you have won't turn you from the possibility of doing as a blessing.

The problem is. God wants a relationship with us. Like a husband wife. Do you have a relationship with your husband by doing ritual and tradtional things, repetitious things. The jews made this mistake. The gentiles and church followed. And it keeps people so far from God. it is amazing. I am not saying they are not all saved. Many are, but can;t get out of religion. And wonder why their lives never change or grow..

Thanks for bringing up that there are many denominations for different people in their different stages of understanding.

thats why I try to stay out of denominational things..

I hope that as people who are reading what Christians say about their understanding they will throw out the accusers, or the people who are speaking without any of God so they express hate. That is a clue to everyone to ignore them, Satan is speaking through them. Christians understand differently and disagree often, but Christians can depend on basic support from other Christians.

This will always happen. My hope is people listen to what others say with open hearts. Far to many people are so engrained in their thinking, they can't listen to what the other person has to say.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Amen. All of scripture from moses until the last book shows us what follwoing these laws and traditions did for Israel. It never works. and never was taken for what it was intended to be.. I guess the gentile church has not made enough mistakes, but now we want to return to Israel and make their mistakes also?? wow

To expand on your most excellent point...

It can't work until the heart is made right... And once the heart is made right there is no need for law...

just sayin'... oh! and so did Paul:

We know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully knowing that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, etc., etc. 1 Timothy 1:8-9
​

 

[RickShafer]

I don't understand. Because I'm convinced of my position (as you are yours); hence, I'm illogical? And I'm making personal because I confront a person attacking me and others continually? Was Jesus attacking the Pharisees when He told them they were a herd of Jackals and their father was Satan? I'm stating what I truly believe at this point based on prayer and study. I'm sure you'll see this as an attack on you as well. I need to back out of this and pray. And again, I need to block people that provoke me to fall into the flesh. For one thing, I shouldn't even be responding to you. For those accusations I believe are entirely invalid, and I see coming repeatedly from the same people, I need to not even reply.

You are confronting me right now. You are telling me I am illogical because I disagree with you logic on hell. I could tell you your logic is totally twisted and limited, and then when you respond, I'll tell you you're being confrontational, making personal attacks, and illogical. That's exactly what you're doing to me.

I'm sorry, I should have made it clearer.
I'm not saying you are an illogical person.
I'm saying your logic pertaining to parables is flawed.
That they are fables.
(That's no personal attack)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They are merely symbolic, though I'd drop the "merely". That's why they practice them in their services, for the purpose of celebrating them because they were fulfilled by Christ's coming. It's a celebration; it's not about earning anything or doing something that gets you saved or makes you better than anyone else. Repeat: it's celebrating the fulfillment of that ritual.

Been there done that. All it did was give me false hope. Was so freeing when i realised the church was a family get together where we became closer. Prayed to our Lord. Made it so real..

Again. Do you do this with your husband? Is this how you worship your husband?? if you do. I doubt you have a very close relationship with him.

God wants a personal relationship with induviduals. Not this. The jews did not understand this, look what it did for them..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To expand on your most excellent point...

It can't work until the heart is made right... And once the heart is made right there is no need for law...

just sayin'... oh! and so did Paul:

We know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully knowing that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, etc., etc. 1 Timothy 1:8-9
​

Great point thank you!

 

[zone]

I started keeping the Sabbath and the Biblical Feast Days about 9 years ago.

i would be interested to get the details on how you keep the Sabbath.
please be as detailed as you can.
it's helpful, since we have so many claiming they do, yet they really don't.

I started keeping the Biblical Feast Days

how do you keep the feast days?

for example:

Exodus 23
The Three Annual Festivals

14“Three times a year you are to celebrate a festival to me.

15“Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread; for seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

“No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

16“Celebrate the Festival of Harvest with the firstfruits of the crops you sow in your field.

“Celebrate the Festival of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in your crops from the field.

17“Three times a year all the men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord.

18“Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast.

“The fat of my festival offerings must not be kept until morning.

19“Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.

“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.

~

do you actually grow your own crops?
aren't those feasts to be "kept' in Jerusalem, at the temple, the house of the Lord your God?
do you visit Jerusalem 3 times a year?
there is no temple there, so what do you do instead?

From there, I started eating kosher

uh....how do you know your food is kosher?
this is an important question i have pondered.
thanks for answering this one in particular.

and working on some of the other Torah-based Instructions.

okay.
what would those be?
ty
zone

 

[Shiloah]

Been there done that. All it did was give me false hope. Was so freeing when i realised the church was a family get together where we became closer. Prayed to our Lord. Made it so real..

Again. Do you do this with your husband? Is this how you worship your husband?? if you do. I doubt you have a very close relationship with him.

God wants a personal relationship with induviduals. Not this. The jews did not understand this, look what it did for them..

I'm actually sorry to hear that. You're right, the Jews didn't understand this, the one's that reject and rejected Christ. Again, it's a celebration. You certainly aren't going to achieve faith with it. It's something you practice in gratitude as a celebration after you've come to know Christ. What's this got to do with my husband? lol.

 

[Bluecomet]

All of that is in the KJV.

 

[Shiloah]

All of that is in the KJV.

Where did anyone say you've gotta practice these rituals to be saved? lol.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All of that is in the KJV.

all of what?

And the KJV is not the stop all of bibles..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm actually sorry to hear that. You're right, the Jews didn't understand this, the one's that reject and rejected Christ. Again, it's a celebration. You certainly aren't going to achieve faith with it. It's something you practice in gratitude as a celebration after you've come to know Christ. What's this got to do with my husband? lol.

lol, as per your husband.

the NT says we have been given a relp with God as husband (we are Christ's bride) and as children (we have been adopted as sons.

So should we not treat God like this?? Many people want to live ny traditions and ritual. So I ask. would we do this with our fathers or husbands? and if we did. do we honestly think they would enjoy it or love us more??

God wants to be our father, and or husband. And he wants to treat us as his sons and daughters, and future wife..

when we think of it this way, all the tradition and ritual seems to become meaningless.. Except to, As grandpa saisd earlier) lead us to Christ. Once we found him. things should change.

 

[crossnote]

I wonder how many people have considered the gentile roots of their faith? I mean after all, faith is what, and only what, it's all about.

Yes Abra(ha)m was a Gentile as well . Our roots is his example of believing the promises of God.

 

[Shiloah]

The problem is that doesn't glorify God. Your things in post #249.

If that glorified God then the old hebrew way would be what we all follow.

There was a need for Christ and a New Way.

Interjecting the old way with the new way is a common mistake. All that ends up happening is you are attempting to mix hot with cold. Flesh and Spirit. Life and Death.

How does it not glorify God for Jews to go through these rituals they never understood before and now fully do because they've accepted Christ and recognize Him as their Messiah? What in the world? Why do we have to tear down what these people choose to do as a result of their tremendous joy at their recognition of their Lord and Savior? They are doing nothing but celebrating the fulfillment of these rituals. How about we leave them alone? I'm honestly beginning to wonder about most of the Christian world. If we attack Jews when they return to Christ unless they worship exactly like we do, there's something awfully wrong with us.

 

[Shiloah]

lol, as per your husband.

the NT says we have been given a relp with God as husband (we are Christ's bride) and as children (we have been adopted as sons.

So should we not treat God like this?? Many people want to live ny traditions and ritual. So I ask. would we do this with our fathers or husbands? and if we did. do we honestly think they would enjoy it or love us more??

God wants to be our father, and or husband. And he wants to treat us as his sons and daughters, and future wife..

when we think of it this way, all the tradition and ritual seems to become meaningless.. Except to, As grandpa saisd earlier) lead us to Christ. Once we found him. things should change.

I do realize that. But apparently you don't understand what I've been saying about celebrating Christ's coming. One has nothing to do with the other. And if you don't like that style of worship, well then worship another way. But why trash a different style of worship?

 

[KohenMatt]

Wouldn't it make sense to excel in that which enabled Jesus to actually keep torah flawlessly, i.e., faith? That is the ultimate example that we can follow. Just sayin'...

Absolutely. That's why I do that, too. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do realize that. But apparently you don't understand what I've been saying about celebrating Christ's coming. One has nothing to do with the other. And if you don't like that style of worship, well then worship another way. But why trash a different style of worship?

I celebrate his coming also. By thanking him every day for saving my soul. By learning to live a life daily the way he desired, By learning more about him and what a great abba father he is.

He does not want our religion. He wants us to learn who he is..

Again I ask. Would you treat your husband or father this way? if not. Why would you treat your spiritual father or husband this way. God wants more from us., He gets nothing out of your religious tradition and ritual. No more than your husband or father would.

 

[Shiloah]

Absolutely. That's why I do that, too. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

Just wanted to.... you know.... enunciate the most important part there...

 

[Shiloah]

I celebrate his coming also. By thanking him every day for saving my soul. By learning to live a life daily the way he desired, By learning more about him and what a great abba father he is.

He does not want our religion. He wants us to learn who he is..

Again I ask. Would you treat your husband or father this way? if not. Why would you treat your spiritual father or husband this way. God wants more from us., He gets nothing out of your religious tradition and ritual. No more than your husband or father would.

Well that's wonderful that you celebrate Him like you should! I don't get why you don't see that they're just doing it differently? I think people need to remember that Jews have practiced these rituals without understanding them, not realizing their fulfillment for 2,000 years now. Now they do! You think that's not a phenomenal event for them? Why can't you just let them do that? Along with others that enjoy learning how those rituals pointed to Christ? I'm sure it's good for everyone involved, unless it's not. lol. Then go somewhere else and worship how you feel led. Okay then! lol.