U
unclefester
Guest
= EVERYTHING
Contentions to the contrary have their origins in the flesh. If some can't see that, perhaps they were never meant to. I pray this is not the case ... truly.
Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
- Thread starter just-me
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= EVERYTHING
Contentions to the contrary have their origins in the flesh. If some can't see that, perhaps they were never meant to. I pray this is not the case ... truly.
We are human beings told to shape up spiritually. Here is a church that is digging deep in the entire word, and doing their best to shape up spiritually. They are also using human type habits to do that. The organized church is putting out several hundreds of posts to say that it only the spiritual that counts. This church agrees with that. They are simply using human type habits that God told them about to relate their humanness to their spirit.
The posters saying they can not do this use their habits to express themselves. Most of them get up and have a cup of coffee. They dash off to work. They plan their week ends. They plan out their time, and wonder about that TV program they are interested in. They go to church on Sunday, and do some adjusting of what they do to be in line with being a Christian.
This church is guiding them to make another step, to use their routines to remind them that they belong to God. You know and I know that God does not tell anyone not to do that. Yet there are postings after postings objecting.
They say you can't make a habit of anything without it being legalism, although legalism is doing without God being involved. They don't have God involved in their morning coffee, and they object to a prayer routine maybe not having God involved? They say God forgives sin, so forget about sin. Whatever does that have to do with human habits?
Our churches are weak. Muslims are entering the US. Homosexuality is taking root. We must lock our houses. We need to be strong. How can we gain strength when our churches say we are fine with a coffee morning routine and fight tooth and nail against a prayer routine? I have even read people say that you can't have a prayer routine and have Christ for your Savior!
The posters saying they can not do this use their habits to express themselves. Most of them get up and have a cup of coffee. They dash off to work. They plan their week ends. They plan out their time, and wonder about that TV program they are interested in. They go to church on Sunday, and do some adjusting of what they do to be in line with being a Christian.
This church is guiding them to make another step, to use their routines to remind them that they belong to God. You know and I know that God does not tell anyone not to do that. Yet there are postings after postings objecting.
They say you can't make a habit of anything without it being legalism, although legalism is doing without God being involved. They don't have God involved in their morning coffee, and they object to a prayer routine maybe not having God involved? They say God forgives sin, so forget about sin. Whatever does that have to do with human habits?
Our churches are weak. Muslims are entering the US. Homosexuality is taking root. We must lock our houses. We need to be strong. How can we gain strength when our churches say we are fine with a coffee morning routine and fight tooth and nail against a prayer routine? I have even read people say that you can't have a prayer routine and have Christ for your Savior!
You go to a Messianic congregation and don't know about your last two questions to me? Or are you laying a trap?
Don't be too sure on that Rick. Haven't you ever seen friends that argue about the same for years? (And those are friends.)
Does the thought ever cross ones mind to that the reason the churches are weak is because the gospel has been watered down to the point that it can't change lives? Could it be that most within the church are NOT Christian to begin with? Where did Jesus ever tell us that everything in this life would be lollipops,gumdrops,sunshine and roses? Where did Jesus ever tell us that in this life we would live in a Christian nation on this earth?
On the other hand can you say that routines can do one thing in and of themselves? Can you show anywhere that Abel,Enoch,Abraham,Issac,Jacob,Noah and Lot ever had routines? The Bible doesn't say one way or the other. Out of all the people that walked the face of the earth Enoch was one of only two that did NOT die.
See if we leave out that the heart of the matter is love,we miss the whole point of what Jesus was telling us.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Amen, on the one hand we have the church promising riches beyond belief, and all our problems will go awy. Which cause people to leave when they realise this is not true. And we wonder why the churches do not grow.
on the other hand we have people teaching if we obey these rules and regulation, And do all these traditions and things, God will again bless us with everything, Take our problems away, And MAYBE give us eternal life Yet another false hope.
Then we have people saying we can believe, and live however we want, God is a God of love, he will not punish us. Another false hope.
What ever happened to the true Gospel of Hope. Which gives the peace that surpasses all understanding.. Where, like paul, We can suffer tribulation and distress.. but consider it a momentary light affliction? The church seems afraid to teach this gospel. We have to make everyone happy so they will like us!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
can ya specify what you mean? I am not even sure this could be taken many many ways.
There are many who will never contemplate these questions that you ask. But they really are worth thinking about, and understanding. Romans 1:19-22a (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
I suppose there are some here that will take offence to this, but that only proves that guilt might be seen as intimidation.
You are talking about the gospel being watered down. And talk of Abraham, Jacob and Noah doing nothing in their day to day life to worship God? Are you sure?
Of course the heart of the matter is love, it is the core of what Jesus is telling us. It is what life and even the "doing" is all about. Why should that cancel the doing? I should think one would enhance the other, yet you seem to be saying that to have love guiding us means we may not express that in our doing. You think doing takes away from love, I think it is a natural way to express it.
Lol, no. I'm not laying a trap. I believe I have a good grasp on the Mosaic Covenant. I just want us all to have the proper foundation and context of the covenant as we try to talk about.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
why would we take offense?
You just proved the inner law (written on our hearts, as apposed to the mosaic law) proves that all have sinned, and that the things of God proves there is a God. Thus NO MAN HAS AN EXCUSE. Thus when the law was written down. As paul said, it really killed us. Because it was written in stone by God himself.
which is what we have been saying from the beginning.
maybe if you would try to listen, and not be offended everytime someone brings up a different opinion. You would see this.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Originally Posted by KohenMatt
What was the purpose of the law? What was the goal? What was God's role in it, and what was Israel's? What were the obligations of both parties?
I'm not offended at these questions in the least. It's amazing how you read into things that are not said.
Then why don't you explain your good grasp instead of trying to get others to do it for you?
Can someone answer this please,If one is observing the Sabbath according to the Mosaic law,do you use gas and electricity on the Sabbath? If you are,are you not causing another to sin? Doesn't someone have to work to provide that gas and electricity?
Can you help me out with this or am I missing something here?
Can you help me out with this or am I missing something here?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
how about cooking, or prepairing food. Or going to the grocery store, or pharmacy or gas station (how about driving itself) or watching TV or anything, which would be considered breaking the sabbath, or as you say, causing others to break it!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Originally Posted by KohenMatt
What was the purpose of the law? What was the goal? What was God's role in it, and what was Israel's? What were the obligations of both parties?
I'm not offended at these questions in the least. It's amazing how you read into things that are not said.
not sure what this is supposed to mean.
whats wrong just-me. I said I was not offended, (even though you said I probably would be) and you brought this as your answer?? are we running out of things to say?
My understanding of God's salvation of the Israelites is that it took place at Passover with the blood of the lamb and subsequent Exodus from Egypt. Israel's salvation was never founded on their obedience or lack thereof. It was by His gracious choosing.
Deuteronomy 7:6-9 "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.7 “The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8 but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the Lord brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His loving kindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments"
And really the rest of Ch. 7 brings out the purpose of the Mosaic covenant to expand on the Abrahamic, that of being chosen by God. Israel's response to that choosing is obedience.
Off to work!
Matt
Deuteronomy 7:6-9 "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.7 “The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8 but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the Lord brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His loving kindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments"
And really the rest of Ch. 7 brings out the purpose of the Mosaic covenant to expand on the Abrahamic, that of being chosen by God. Israel's response to that choosing is obedience.
Off to work!
Matt