Acts 2:38 and baptism in Jesus name.

Reformedjason · Jul 9, 2013

I have family members that are modelist and they believe that I am not saved. They say that I must be baptized in "Jesus name" to receive the Holy Ghost. ( I don't like calling the Holy Spirit , the Holy Ghost , God is not a spook. ) any way, have you come across this? They believe that Jesus is the father , son , and the spirit. My arguement to them is, if Jesus is father son and spirit, then baptizing in the name of the father son and spirit , are you not baptizing in Jesus name ? I don't get it. They don't believe in the trinity though it is clearly taught in scripture. They are hung up on clothes worn , and seem to make up rules like the Pharisees. Also they say the only proof you are saved is speaking in tongues. Tongues is not even mentioned in Galatians as a fruit of the spirit. I would like to hear some of your comments on this.

michaelwriting · Jul 10, 2013

I got started in the UPC church when I first came to Christ 18 years ago. They are very centralized around these few doctrines. When I was a new believer, it really screwed me up and confused me. They believe in 'baptism salvation' and the other things you mentioned.

However, we can easily debunk this by asking whether the criminal on the cross was saved. Jesus said that the thief on the cross next to him would be in paradise with him that day. But the repentent thief wasn't baptized. Many others were baptized with John's baptism. Later they were baptized into Christ.

As you mentioned, they have women's hair requirements which are 'supposed' to align with 1Cor11. But if you look at verse 16, it says that 'if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.' So it isn't a strict requirement as they propose.

Your spidey senses are correct. : )

michaelwriting · Jul 10, 2013

Just to harp on this a bit further, we are saved by faith according to Paul's exposition in the book of Romans (and elsewhere). Baptism is a response of obedience as a result of the inner working of faith within us.

In my experience, it seems that when anyone harps on a singular proof text or verse, and centralizes their entire theology around it, then it likely is a bit unbalanced or polarizing, and they miss out on much of the larger context/message of scripture. We try to confine God to one or two proof texts, rather than accepting and allowing the full text speak to us in the manifold wisdom of God.

Elizabeth619 · Jul 10, 2013

michaelwriting said:

The bible does not say the thief on the cross was or was not baptized.
All it shows is the thief knew who Jesus was which indicates he could have been a follower of Jesus or at least witnessed his ministry. He could have very well been baptized and fell away. He also could have been wrongfully crucified and was innocent.

There are many factors surrounding the thief, but never once does scripture mention his status of whether he was baptized or not. Assuming either side without validation is adding to scripture.

fredjames · Jul 10, 2013

Peace be with you, i am guided to share this to you regarding the Holy Scriptures. HE is called HOLY GHOST is because of 'HIS NATURE' that JESUS shared with Nicodemus about the HOLY SPIRIT. But you can address HIM as the HOLY SPIRIT, if that is how you will to honor HIM.
JESUS also said this to Nicodemus; "In order to see the Kingdom of GOD, one need to be born from above. You are not only to be born of water but also to be born of the HOLY SPIRIT in order to see the Kingdom of GOD."
In faith Christians baptize people using water and baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, SON and the HOLY SPIRIT.
In faith Christian elders lay their hands on a baptized person and impart the HOLY SPIRIT as our Helper in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
About the HOLY SPIRIT gifts (talent), abide as CHRIST through Apostle Paul explains them. Which gift are beneficial to others and which are without interpretation which are not beneficial to others and must be restrained and utter them in silent between you and GOD. With interpretation two three only speak at a time and take turns. Do not stop this utterance.
For a sound doctrine understanding, pray first and the anointing is in you to teach and read about SPIRITUAL gifts in '1 Corinthians chapter 12 to chapter 14'.
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless and build you in spirit and truth.

starfield · Jul 10, 2013

Reformedjason said:

The UPCI have it wrong. Jesus himself gave us the formula for baptism: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt 28:19). Baptism “in Jesus' name” simply means it is under His authority however, it is important to include all members of the Trinity. In addition, the scripture does not teach tongues as proof of salvation. The Holy Spirit who indwells at the moment of regeneration gives assurance of salvation, and as a result one produces the fruit of the Spirit. (Rom 8:16, Eph 1:13).

Cobus · Jul 10, 2013

Reformedjason, I did a study on the ...baptize them in THE NAME (one name) of the Father (YHWH) the Son (JESUS CHRIST) and the Holy Ghost (CHRIST JESUS). So I asked God WHAT IS THE ONE NAME we should be baptized in... Then God showed me the NAME... HIS NAME... THE ONE NAME.... Revelation..... And His NAME is called: THE WORD OF GOD!

The the BAPTISM.... ONE BAPTISM... made PERFECT sence. So here Goes...

God said go make disciples... Teach them the Word of God
Baprize them in the Name..... Teach them the Word of God
Go and Teach all nations..... Teach them the Word of God

Do you see that all three commands is ONE THING.... Teach them the Word of God... The Truth is the Word (John 17:17) And Jesus said thou shalt know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free... And if He makes you free you are free indeed. And the Word was with God and the Word was God... (John 1)

Then God says... THERE IS ONE BAPTISM... and it is NOT WATER, or H2O... It is the Word of God, the LIVING WATER Jesus talked about. One Bpatism, Eph 4. and Living Water shall flow from the bowls.... John 7:38...

My friend there are MANY crocodiles out there that only wants to drag you to water, beware of them... LOOK at their fruit.. if Living WATER does not flow from them, BEWARE.... Only Jesus can give this WATER... and it is TRUTH (His Word)

May the Lord be with you and guide you in HIS TRUTH...

There I just baptized you in HIS NAME.... MAy Father's will be done in you AMEN!

RickyZ · Jul 10, 2013

You are baptized in the Holy Spirit when you accept Christ as your savior. However, once filled, the Spirit is then supposed to flow from us, using the Gifts as a means to deliver God's love and will to others. What a lot of people believe is a secondary baptism in the Spirit, is actually a first releasing of the Spirit to flow from us. That is normally evidenced by tongues, but not always. Tongues are not required for salvation or baptism, they are a gift of the Spirit for the edification and uplifting of His saved. You are no less Christian for not speaking in tongues, but I think you're robbing yourself of an important tool thereof if you don't.

I think your comparison to the pharisees is an accurate one.

Cobus · Jul 10, 2013

RickyZ who in the Bible accepted Jesus as their sviour and was then baptized in the Spirit? If only one person will show me the verse that says... and #%&&@)@ accepted Jesus as his saviour and was baptized in the Holy Ghost....

I canot find one single verse that says a person ACCEPTED Jesus as his or her saviour, NOT ONE!

It is NOT true. I read that Samaria accepted the Word of God and they were baptized in the Name of Jesus by a HOLY SPIRIT filled Philip, but the Holy Ghost has not FELL ON NONE OF THEM YET....

Why do people think they are al filled and baptized woth the Holy Ghost, yet they are still sinners? Why would the Holy Spirit live in a sinner? Can God not give the Holy Spirit as HOLY body to live in? Is this not why God appoints his PERFECT, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists. Pastors and teachers ... FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS... Eph4:11 to 13... UNTO A PERFECT MAN... to the measure of Christ. Is this not the people that receive the ONE BAPTISM? God's Holy Spirit baptism as FINAL ACT OF SALVATION?

I know I am believing the Truth, it is in God's Word... Eph 4:11 to 13.... that is Salvation... And NOTHING TO DO WITH ACCEPTING Jesus.... God Baptize with Jesus to be ONE WITH JESUS! God does the ACCPTING AND CELECTING, NOt us! Do not get confused,,.. God said YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME I CHOSE YOU!!!! So no accepting on our part.... Oh we can RECEIVE the Truth and Spirit, but we do not ACCEPT, or make the choice.... GOD DOES. You have NO choice Ricky... You do not ACCEPT Jesus..... God choose you and HE PUTS THE NEW HEART IN YOU, even the CHOICE OF CHILD is HIM, not US.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jul 10, 2013

Cobus said:

The holy spirit filled Cornelius and his household before they were baptized.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. Acts 10:44-48

NiceneCreed · Jul 10, 2013

Reformedjason said:

Concerning the Holy Trinity, I do believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are all three distinct persons, but are of the same substance. One could not say Jesus is any less God than the Father or Holy Spirit; however, this view does not preclude 'Trinitarianism.' To the contrary, one who believes Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate, believes in a doctrine deemed heretical by a vast number of ancient and modern day Christians, known as, 'Tritheism.' The philosophical problem with a view such as, 'Tritheism,' is that it negates the eternality of God Almighty. If one believes God the Father created Jesus and the Holy Spirit, this in turn, would make Jesus and the Holy Spirit finite beings. It is evident such a view would eliminate salvation by grace, because Christ's atoning sacrifice would be rendered insufficient, if indeed He were not God. Furthermore, if Jesus were not God incarnate, it follows the Holy Spirit would not have come from the Son. So while Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are of the same substance, Christians should not fail to realize they are distinct persons; this view does not negate the eternality of the Holy Trinity, nor does it negate 'Monotheism.'

To address part two of your question: spiritual gifts and Fruit of the Spirit are not the same thing. There is often an unclear distinction between one who possesses the Fruit of the Spirit and one who employs a spiritual gift. Fruit of the Spirit is a reflection of the cooperative relationship a Christian shares with God, through the Holy Spirit, and it is more commonly found among mature Christians, as opposed to Christians young in their faith. Paul states, in Galatians 5:22 (New International Version, 2011), "But the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness." We can see in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, Paul states spiritual gifts include: the utterance of wisdom, the utterance of knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discernment of spirits, speaking in tongues, and the interpretation of tongues; there is clearly a distinction between Fruit of the Spirit and spiritual gifts. Furthermore, speaking in tongues is not a sign of spirituality or spiritual superiority as some Christians profess. Paul clearly states, " . . . there are different gifts, but the same Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:4). Also, Paul states clearly, in 1 Corinthians 14:5, "I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified." So one can conclude it is indeed better to prophecy than it is to speak in tongues; therefore, these scriptures prove that the view speaking in tongues is evidence of one's baptism or faith, is erroneous to Christianity.

Finally, Jesus did command us to, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19). Yet one must remember that while Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same substance, it is unavoidable to be baptized with the absence of one of the three distinct persons of the Trinity (they are all one God), but this should not detract from the distinction of the persons of the Trinity, nor should one infer any one of the persons of the Trinity is any lesser than the other; doing so would take away from the eternality of God.

I hope I was able to clarify the questions you had a little bit.

Grace and Peace!

Respectfully,

Nicene Creed

jb · Jul 10, 2013

starfield said:

Acts 2v21: '...whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'

Rom 10v9: 'That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.'

And so forth!

What UPCI are teaching (on the nature of the Godhead) is nothing else than the old destructive heresy of 'Modalistic Monarchianism’ and throughout the centuries it has been firmly refuted by the Church as such...period! 1John 4v1-6

There is absolutely NO arguement about this!

oldhermit · Jul 10, 2013

It may help to understand exactly what is meant by the term "εἰς τὸ ὄνομα" - "into the name of." In the classical style of the first century language the phrase was often used as a legal term. This expression is found among ancient legal documents that recorded the transfer of property. If one purchased a section of land or a dwelling for example, a title transfer would be drawn up to show that this property was now εἰς τὸ ὄνομα - in the name of - the new owner. When Jesus commanded his disciples to preach the gospel to every creature and baptize them εἰς τὸ ὄνομα the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, what he is commanding them to do is to baptize them into the possession of God. Christians are the objects of a property transfer - "out of the kingdom of darkness and into his marvelous light." This same language is used in Acts 2:38 Peter commanded those present to be baptized ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι - into the name of - thus into the possession if Jesus Christ. This was for a two-fold purpose

1. For the removal of sin - Spiritual circumcision, Colossians 2:9-13.
2. To receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. He is the seal of the transfer of property, Ephesians 4:30, 1Corinthians 6:19-20. He is the seal of ownership to show that we have been bought with a price.

If one is baptized into the possession of Jesus, he is also baptized into the possession of the Father and the Holy spirit. The words are not important. This is not some type of incantation that must be repeated in order for the baptism to be valid. Both Jesus and Peter are saying the same thing. When you baptize someone, they are being transferred into the possession of God.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 10, 2013

oldhermit said:

if this be true we have a works based Gospel. And the baptism, which is performed by the spirit is meaningless.

Actually the greek reads much different than the english translation. Most of the translators of scripture were avid believers of the fact of water baptismal regeneration. Thus they interpreted the passage to support this.

The greek actually says, Repent And you shall recieve the gift of the spirit. The let every one of you (who have repented and recieved the spirit) be baptised in the name of Jesus for (because of) the remission of sin.

if one looks. We have 2nd person, 3rd person, Plural and ingular subjects and verbs used here, And one MUST put them in order to get proper perspective.

Repent was a command given to all and gift of the spirit applies to these people

Be baptised was a command only given to a select few (those who had remission of sin.)

oldhermit · Jul 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

How exactly do you define a "work"?

Actually the greek reads much different than the english translation. Most of the translators of scripture were avid believers of the fact of water baptismal regeneration. Thus they interpreted the passage to support this.

The greek actually says, Repent And you shall recieve the gift of the spirit. The let every one of you (who have repented and recieved the spirit) be baptised in the name of Jesus for (because of) the remission of sin.

if one looks. We have 2nd person, 3rd person, Plural and ingular subjects and verbs used here, And one MUST put them in order to get proper perspective.

Repent was a command given to all and gift of the spirit applies to these people

Be baptised was a command only given to a select few (those who had remission of sin.)

Click to expand...

You are attempting to use grammatical manipulation to fit your soteriology. The Greek does not read anything like that.

πετρος δε εφη προς αυτους μετανοησατε και βαπτισθητω εκαστος υμων επι τω ονοματι ιησου χριστου εις αφεσιν αμαρτιων και ληψεσθε την δωρεαν του αγιου πνευματος

μετανοησατε and βαπτισθητω are linked by και to the same thought and to the same demographic - αὐτούς and ὑμῶν.

Never begin with an idea when you approach any text and then try to fit the idea into the text. Instead, begin with the grammatical structure and allow that to create your soteriology. All of these grammatical gymnastics serve only to manipulate the text in favor of a soteriology that you feel is comfortable to you. This is not being honest with the text.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 10, 2013

oldhermit said:

the way God defines it

"lest any man should boast (take credit, or be puffed up"

I know many people who have boasted of their baptism.

You are attempting to use grammatical manipulation to fit your soteriology. The Greek does not read anything like that.

Click to expand...

No I am using greek grammer to force my interpretation. and also making scripture not contradict itself. Jesus said we are saved by faith in him and his promise, not because we are baptized. he also said condemnation is due to lack of faith, not because we were not baptized.

πετρος δε εφη προς αυτους μετανοησατε και βαπτισθητω εκαστος υμων επι τω ονοματι ιησου χριστου εις αφεσιν αμαρτιων και ληψεσθε την δωρεαν του αγιου πνευματος

μετανοησατε and βαπτισθητω are linked by και to the same thought and to the same demographic - αὐτούς and ὑμῶν.

Never begin with an idea when you approach any text and then try to fit the idea into the text. Instead, begin with the grammatical structure and allow that to create your soteriology. All of these grammatical gymnastics serve only to manipulate the text in favor of a soteriology that you feel is comfortable to you. This is not being honest with the text.

Click to expand...

lol.. Never look at a passage with preconcieved ideas. You will interpret it incorrectly to fit your belief, and not what it says.

I do not have access right now. But I will show you when I get home the different greek structures of the words.. But maybe you can study it yourself?

oldhermit · Jul 10, 2013

So, work is something you do in order to obtain a result. Would this be a fair statement.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 10, 2013

oldhermit said:

eternally-gratefull said:

oldhermit said:

oldhermit · Jul 10, 2013

Would you consider belief, repentance and confession as works? These are things scripture commands us we must do. Why does this reasoning suddenly change when it come to the act of baptism?

Hoffco · Jul 10, 2013

To oldhermit, You are right on the truth, We are declaring our new ownership and allegiances to God ( F, S, and H.S.)
Please keep more scriptures in mind on baptism. Heb.6:1 "...repentance from dead works and faith toward
God, Of the doctrine of baptisms..." 1st. The new birth into God's family is called the baptism of the Spirit. 1cor.12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-...' Rom.6:3 "...were baptized into one body..." (the body of Christ, the Church ) Jh. 3:5 ...born of the Spirit..."
2nd.Then there is water baptism which brings a refreshing baptism of the Holy Spirit. 1Pet.3:21 "There is an antitype which now saves us-baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh,but the answer of a good conscience toward God), ..." More on this later. Hoffco

Acts 2:38 and baptism in Jesus name.

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