Acts 2:38 and baptism in Jesus name.

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Hoffco

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#21
#21
Heb. 6:1 "baptisms" pl. so there are more than one, baptisms. namely, Spirit and water. Water baptism is not required by God for salvation,although it sounds like it is in the book of acts. But when some one like Peter commands you to be baptism in order to receive the Spirit, you want to obey. Now, when someone like the apostle Paul says to Peter, You sinned in showing partiality against our gentiles converts by not eating with them ,to please the Jews, peter must repent ,and fly straight. Peter had a little problem of the fear of man.at times, it came out, to his shame. We all have besetting sins. Little foxes that spoil the vine". Therefore, we could conclude , there are more ways than one to do a given task, commanded of God. Our methods change but the truth never changes. To boil it down. biblically,there are 3 absolutes that God requires of us to be saved: 1.repent of sin,do it in all ways possible, even baptism. 2. Trust in Jesus alone for forgiveness, only the blood of Jesus saves. 3. Obey Jesus as Lord, only those who obey God are saved.
The book of acts is a transitional book,and just one of God's inspired books He ment to give us by the apostles,and needs others books,truths, added to it to give a full understanding of God's truth. each book added to the inspired Word of God is needed to fill out God's teachings for us. Now, we have all God intended to give us for this age. Be blessed Hoffco
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#22
#22
oldhermit said:
Would you consider belief, repentance and confession as works?
These are things scripture commands us we must do.
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No, Because it is the work of God that these things happen.

Faith comes via the word. The word causes repentance and faith. The word is the work of God. The cross (which gives us salvation) comes from God.

Trusting these things and not self (repentnance) is what saves us, We cannot boast because we did not do anything. This goes against the thinking of man, which is why so many refuse to see it, they want to work to earn it..

Why does this reasoning suddenly change when it come to the act of baptism?
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what reasoning? repentnance and faith in the work, and promise of God is not our work. It is not us doing anything, and we can not boast of them, for as Jesus said, IT is the WORK OF GOD that we BELIEVE in the one he sent.

baptism is no different than circumcision. It is mans work. The jews trusted the work of man in circumcising them to make the clean and worthy of God. The church just twisted it and replaced this ACT which symboizes cleansing, with the act of water baptism which does the same.

Scripture says I was not cleansed by my own action, or the hands of men, but by the HS (the hand of God).

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Our spiritual circumcision, or baptism is perfromed not by the hands of men (as is water baptism) but by the hand of God.

Titus 3 :5. Not by works of rightiosness which we have done, (which would include water baptism) but according to his mercy, he saved us through (by the means of) the washing of regeneration (spirit baptism), and renewing (New birth, or born again) of the Holy Spirit

1 Cor 6: 11 - But you were washed (baptised) , but you were sanctified (set apart) , but you were justified (declared innocent of all debt) in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.(not by the hands of men)

All these were done by the hand of God. All past tense. All once and for all actions.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#23
Jul 28, 2012
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eternally-gratefull said:
No, Because it is the work of God that these things happen.

Faith comes via the word. The word causes repentance and faith. The word is the work of God. The cross (which gives us salvation) comes from God.

Trusting these things and not self (repentnance) is what saves us, We cannot boast because we did not do anything. This goes against the thinking of man, which is why so many refuse to see it, they want to work to earn it..



what reasoning? repentnance and faith in the work, and promise of God is not our work. It is not us doing anything, and we can not boast of them, for as Jesus said, IT is the WORK OF GOD that we BELIEVE in the one he sent.

baptism is no different than circumcision. It is mans work. The jews trusted the work of man in circumcising them to make the clean and worthy of God. The church just twisted it and replaced this ACT which symboizes cleansing, with the act of water baptism which does the same.

Scripture says I was not cleansed by my own action, or the hands of men, but by the HS (the hand of God).

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Our spiritual circumcision, or baptism is perfromed not by the hands of men (as is water baptism) but by the hand of God.

Titus 3 :5. Not by works of rightiosness which we have done, (which would include water baptism) but according to his mercy, he saved us through (by the means of) the washing of regeneration (spirit baptism), and renewing (New birth, or born again) of the Holy Spirit

1 Cor 6: 11 - But you were washed (baptised) , but you were sanctified (set apart) , but you were justified (declared innocent of all debt) in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.(not by the hands of men)

All these were done by the hand of God. All past tense. All once and for all actions.
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If repentance, confession and believing are the work of God then why are WE commanded to DO them, yet, you do not challenge their necessity in connection with salvation. This same language is used in connection to baptism but, I do not see you making that same argument there? Why do you suppose that is? Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. ... " The act of baptism is not trusting in self. It is trusting in the working of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#24
#24
oldhermit said:
If repentance, confession and believing are the work of God then why are WE commanded to DO them,
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You don't get it do you?

If you are drowning in a sea in the middle of the storm. and someone comes and plucks you out of the ocean because you sat still and trusted him to save you (stopped trying to save yourself)

Are you going to go back to your family an dboast of the fact you saved yourself?

Water baptism in this story would be the act of you doing a work of saving yourself, instead of doing NOTHING and allowing the other to save you.

the reason you would do a work to save yourself in this story, because you have not repented, you still think you can save yourself.

confession. All we are told to do is confess with our mouth the lord, and believe in him.. So not sure what your talking about here. Maybe confess you have no hope unless this man does ALL the work to save you?

We are in a sea of sin, and drowning (we will die if we do not get help) we can not save ourselves, we are utterly hopeless. God sent his son to save us (pluck us out of the ocean) are you going to trust him, or continue to try to save yourself by your own work.

yet, you do not challenge their necessity in connection with baptism.
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I do not challenge the necessity, I challenge who is the one DOING the baptising.

if you want to place your eternity on the flawed work of men, feel free. I am trusting my eternity on the perfect work of God.

This same language is used in connection to baptism but, I do not see you making that same argument there? Why do you suppose that is? Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. ... " The act of baptism is not trusting in self. It is trusting in the working of God.
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the word trust was not there, Now your adding to the word of God. And yes, It is the WORK OF GOD which cleanses us, Not the work of man (in physical water)

are you going to trust God, or men?? the choice is yours..
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#25
Jul 28, 2012
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#25
the word trust was not there, Now your adding to the word of God. And yes, It is the WORK OF GOD which cleanses us, Not the work of man (in physical water)
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Sorry, type-o this is the way it was supposed to read.

"Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. ..."

The act of baptism is not trusting in self. It is trusting in the working of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
#26
oldhermit said:
Sorry, type-o this is the way it was supposed to read.

"Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. ..."

The act of baptism is not trusting in self. It is trusting in the working of God.
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You did not even get the point of the passage.

Buried with him in baptism. Who can bury us in Christ? Only the one who raised him from the dead.. Which is who? did your pastor raise christ from the dead? (or whoever baptised you in water) Does he have the power to literally place you (which is what the term baptize literally means) into the death of christ?

the passage is telling us HOW we were circumcised BY THE HAND OF GOD. Not the hand of men.

the act of baptism (water) is not only trusting self, but trusting the man who baptized you. Not the work of God.

 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#27
Jul 28, 2012
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#27
You don't get it do you?

If you are drowning in a sea in the middle of the storm. and someone comes and plucks you out of the ocean because you sat still and trusted him to save you (stopped trying to save yourself)

Are you going to go back to your family and boast of the fact you saved yourself?

Water baptism in this story would be the act of you doing a work of saving yourself, instead of doing NOTHING and allowing the other to save you.

the reason you would do a work to save yourself in this story, because you have not repented, you still think you can save yourself.

confession. All we are told to do is confess with our mouth the lord, and believe in him.. So not sure what your talking about here. Maybe confess you have no hope unless this man does ALL the work to save you?

We are in a sea of sin, and drowning (we will die if we do not get help) we can not save ourselves, we are utterly hopeless. God sent his son to save us (pluck us out of the ocean) are you going to trust him, or continue to try to save yourself by your own work.
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How much sense does this argument make if instead of using the word baptism, you use the word believed?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#28
#28
oldhermit said:
How much sense does this argument make if instead of using the word baptism, you use the word believed?
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It is apples and oranges.

baptize is a work of men, (and your work, because you have to work to get to be baptised)

Belief is a work of God (as I already showed you)

Also I showed you the sense.

the one who trusted and did nothing to help was saved.

The other (baptize) helped to save himself. His trust was in self. Not COMPLETELY in the one who came to save him. (which means he had mere belief, but not trust, thus he had no faith in the one who came to save him)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
#29
Just for giggles, lets put another spin on this baptism deal.

If water baptism is required for anyone to be saved. NO ONE was saved from adam until Moses instituted the Levite priesthood.

After this. Only levites and gentiles getting ceremonially cleansed to be accepted into judaism had the possibility to be saved. For only they were baptised in water.

Which means alot of people died thinking they were going to heaven (including abraham) who will spend eternity in hell because they were not baptised.

The gospel has been the same since day 1 (the moment Adam fell) Trust God to send the redeemer, who will make restitituion for you sin. It has not changed.

The ceremonies and traditions (ie.. Circumcision and baptism., which picture the future or past work of God) have changed, but the means of salvation have NEVER CHANGED.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#30
Jul 28, 2012
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#30
eternally-gratefull said:
It is apples and oranges.

baptize is a work of men, (and your work, because you have to work to get to be baptised)

Belief is a work of God (as I already showed you)

Also I showed you the sense.

the one who trusted and did nothing to help was saved.

The other (baptize) helped to save himself. His trust was in self. Not COMPLETELY in the one who came to save him. (which means he had mere belief, but not trust, thus he had no faith in the one who came to save him)
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It is obvious we are not connecting from a common frame of reference. What baptism do you feel is necessary?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
#31
oldhermit said:
It is obvious we are not connecting from a common frame of reference. What baptism do you feel is necessary?
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Matt 3:11-12 I (John the Baptist) indeed baptise with water unto (because of) repentance. Be he (christ) Who is comming after me is mightier than I , whose sandal straps I am not worth to lose. He will BAPTIZE with the holy spirit and with Fire. His winowing fan is in his hands, and he will thoroughly clean out his threshing floor. and gather the wheat into the barn. But he will burn up the chaff with unquentiable Fire"

Everyone will be baptized by God..Either by the Holy Spirit or by Fire..Holy Spirit baptism is complet baptism in his death..Fire baptism is complete immersion in the lake of Fire given to all who do not believe..It will be complete and not partial..That is why the greek word is perfect and can not be misunderstood taken in the right context!

Acts 1 :5 For you were truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the holy spirit not many days from now

Acts 11: 15- 17 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God??”

Remember, Baptizo is a verb, By itself it has no interpretation except to be "placed into" something.

Thus context must be used.

Do not just assume when you see the word baptize it must always mean water. More than one baptism is spoken of in the word. and as the author of Hebrews says, Just one saves us.

Which one? The HS baptism, or water baptism?
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

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#32
Aug 15, 2009
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#32
You guys DO KNOW the baptism into Christ & water baptism are two different things altogether, right? Just asking......
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#33
Jul 28, 2012
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#33
WOW! I'm not sure I even know where to start here.

Let's begin with the idea of the one baptism in Eph. 4:5. The idea of 'one' establishes exclusivity to the exclusion of all others for each of the things mentioned in that text. Which baptism do you think this is and why?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#34
Sep 4, 2012
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#34
eternally-gratefull said:

Do not just assume when you see the word baptize it must always mean water. More than one baptism is spoken of in the word. and as the author of Hebrews says, Just one saves us.

Which one? The HS baptism, or water baptism?
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Is it really relevant? Circumcision of the heart is what brings us into covenant with GOD. That is what saves us. It is an operation done by GOD, when a person first believes. The writer of Hebrews may have just been using the act of baptism to signify this hidden, spiritual operation.

The eunuch in the desert received a water baptism from Phillip, but nothing is said about him receiving a baptism of the holy spirit. Yet he obviously was circumcised in the heart and therefore became a member of the covenant.

Cornelius and his household received the baptism of the spirit apart from a prior water baptism. They were circumcised in heart the moment they believed and became members of the covenant.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#35
#35
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Is it really relevant? Circumcision of the heart is what brings us into covenant with GOD. That is what saves us. It is an operation done by GOD, when a person first believes. The writer of Hebrews may have just been using the act of baptism to signify this hidden, spiritual operation.

The eunuch in the desert received a water baptism from Phillip, but nothing is said about him receiving a baptism of the holy spirit. Yet he obviously was circumcised in the heart and therefore became a member of the covenant.

Cornelius and his household received the baptism of the spirit apart from a prior water baptism. They were circumcised in heart the moment they believed and became members of the covenant.
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Yes we are not told he recieved baptism of the spirit. But amen, he recieved a circumcision of the heart. (which according to Paul is caused by being baptised into Christ) which of course is spirit baptism.

Thus we can assume, If cornelious was saved, he was baptised with the spirit. We do not have to see it, or read it in writing, we can KNOW it is true.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#36
#36
oldhermit said:
WOW! I'm not sure I even know where to start here.

Let's begin with the idea of the one baptism in Eph. 4:5. The idea of 'one' establishes exclusivity to the exclusion of all others for each of the things mentioned in that text. Which baptism do you think this is and why?
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HS baptism. because it is the only one which saved.

The jews were commanded to be circumcised, as a sign of the covenant, Yet it did not save them

We are commanded also (a sign of our covenant with God) but it DOES not save us any more than circumcision saved them.

Jesus commanded us to eat the lords supper. Gather together. Obey his commands, Feed the poor, and many other things also. Can these save us?? Or do we do them (like water baptism) Because WE ARE SAVED??
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#37
#37
eternally-gratefull said:
HS baptism. because it is the only one which saved.

The jews were commanded to be circumcised, as a sign of the covenant, Yet it did not save them

We are commanded also (a sign of our covenant with God) but it DOES not save us any more than circumcision saved them.

Jesus commanded us to eat the lords supper. Gather together. Obey his commands, Feed the poor, and many other things also. Can these save us?? Or do we do them (like water baptism) Because WE ARE SAVED??
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while we are in ephesians.

Are we washed by literal water? or that which truly cleanses us?

eph 5: 26 : that He might sanctify and cleanse her (the Church) with the washing of water by the word,

No water baptism, the word.

jesus said these words to his disciples. You are clean by the word I have given to you.. This is the word..
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#39
#39
oldhermit said:
Why would you assume this?
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who said I was assuming? why are you assuming it is water baptism?

And why did you not answer my post about OT saints who were never baptised in water? How did they get saved??
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#40
Jul 28, 2012
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#40
=eternally-gratefull;1106569]who said I was assuming? why are you assuming it is water baptism?
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That is simple. Follow the paper trail as it were.

And why did you not answer my post about OT saints who were never baptised in water? How did they get saved??
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Let's just deal with one thing at a time.
 
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