Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
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S
I do understand that you don't understand, and this post is a perfect example. It's also a perfect example of how you reason. You never understand the full context of which you speak. You only see what you want and address that. In other words, your lack of understanding is a choice.
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When God gave us His word God expected us to read the entire scripture, all 66 books. First thing we are told, God is eternal and does not change. So we are to first get to know Him and what God is like. Every scripture expands on this. If we don't read it this way we can jerk lots of scripture around and pull it apart for meanings not in line with those principles. These two scriptures are an example.
The Holy Spirit gives us understanding of God, it is born of God. We are born in sin. We can listen only to the HS and not sin, but we have another part in us we can listen to.
The Holy Spirit gives us understanding of God, it is born of God. We are born in sin. We can listen only to the HS and not sin, but we have another part in us we can listen to.
Frankly, I have reached a point where I believe it is a complete waste of time...
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Have you ever noticed that when you endorse the law as being valid, every scripture that can possibly used against the law, is interpreted with a vengeance? It tells me something, like "stay off my lawn and don't knock on my door." If I am wrong, why don't they incorporate this scripture?
Galatians 6:1-7 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For every man shall bear his own burden.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
I will admit though, some try, but it is short-lived and turns into an argument.
U
It went over your head Shiloah. The fact that the law is not kept by us is itself a fact. Even those who think they're keeping it are not. Adding the supposition "for the purpose of earning salvation" to the aforementioned in red does not detract from the truth that none of us can keep the law satisfactory to God's perfect and required standard. It remains a mute point. "The fact that the law is not kept by us" ... and my usage of it in my given context simply pointed out the futility of our flesh in all it's vain attempts to please God ... and particularly through God's perfect law. Thus our desperate need for Christ's sacrifice on our behalf. Christ ... and Christ alone. Not a one of us can do anything good without Him. Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.
You can't imagine how good it made me feel to have you like my paintings!
But back to scripture. I don't see what the facts about what God tells us about law has to do with Hebrew Roots. Is it because they also like to learn about the Father? To follow Christ is to do that. Or that they like to bring worship into everyday living? Why should that make you object.
Don't be a Zone and accuse them of things they never ever thought of doing.
But back to scripture. I don't see what the facts about what God tells us about law has to do with Hebrew Roots. Is it because they also like to learn about the Father? To follow Christ is to do that. Or that they like to bring worship into everyday living? Why should that make you object.
Don't be a Zone and accuse them of things they never ever thought of doing.
E
I agree with you 100 %. One of the things God gives us is the 66 books. And in doing so he gave us a way to KNOW we interpret scripture correctly.
One way is contradiction. If we see two passages that appear to contradict. Then we MUST RESOLVE the contradfiction so they no longer contradict.
No matter how you read 1 John 3. It is clear. Those who have been (past tense) born of God can not sin, because they have been (past tense) born of God.
Thus when we read hebrews, WE MUST interpret it so it does not contradict 1 John.What is the context of Hebrews? Returning to law. What is the context of the law. WHen you sin, A sacrifice MUST BE GIVEN..
So what happens to those who return to law (showing they never had faith in Christ in the first place. or they would never return? That when they willfully sin, They MUST give a sacrifice. What is the author saying? if you return to law. and sin, THERE is no more sacrifice. why? The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin.
look at context.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
1. Perfected forever. those being sanctified (this is an ongoing thing) and how long is forever?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
Where there is remission, there is no longer an offering? why? Jesus died once, for ALL sin.
He goes on.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth,
It says they recieved the knowledge, it does not say they had faith in it.. Just heard it.
there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Grace a common thing? Do we have faith in common things?? NO! If we think it is common, we are not going to trust it. We heard it, but we rejected it.
the willful sin is rejecting the gospel of grace, If we do this, there is no more sacrifice. Why? We are back under law. And the blood of bulls and goats can not remove sin.
You see. Now we have resolved a contradiction.
Hebrews said whoever has been redeemed are perfected forever. But those who recieve but go on sinning (faith no works) have no more sacrifice but only fearfull expectation of judgment, Why? they are back under law.
It is worse for them, because they heard the gospel. and rejected it. Than for someone who never heard it.
A person born of God is a new creature. He is not the old creature which sins like the worl. He is a new creature, THUS HE CAN NOT LIVE IN HABITUAL SIN LIKE THE WORLD DOES>
One way is contradiction. If we see two passages that appear to contradict. Then we MUST RESOLVE the contradfiction so they no longer contradict.
No matter how you read 1 John 3. It is clear. Those who have been (past tense) born of God can not sin, because they have been (past tense) born of God.
Thus when we read hebrews, WE MUST interpret it so it does not contradict 1 John.What is the context of Hebrews? Returning to law. What is the context of the law. WHen you sin, A sacrifice MUST BE GIVEN..
So what happens to those who return to law (showing they never had faith in Christ in the first place. or they would never return? That when they willfully sin, They MUST give a sacrifice. What is the author saying? if you return to law. and sin, THERE is no more sacrifice. why? The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin.
look at context.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
1. Perfected forever. those being sanctified (this is an ongoing thing) and how long is forever?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
Where there is remission, there is no longer an offering? why? Jesus died once, for ALL sin.
He goes on.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth,
It says they recieved the knowledge, it does not say they had faith in it.. Just heard it.
there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Grace a common thing? Do we have faith in common things?? NO! If we think it is common, we are not going to trust it. We heard it, but we rejected it.
the willful sin is rejecting the gospel of grace, If we do this, there is no more sacrifice. Why? We are back under law. And the blood of bulls and goats can not remove sin.
You see. Now we have resolved a contradiction.
Hebrews said whoever has been redeemed are perfected forever. But those who recieve but go on sinning (faith no works) have no more sacrifice but only fearfull expectation of judgment, Why? they are back under law.
It is worse for them, because they heard the gospel. and rejected it. Than for someone who never heard it.
A person born of God is a new creature. He is not the old creature which sins like the worl. He is a new creature, THUS HE CAN NOT LIVE IN HABITUAL SIN LIKE THE WORLD DOES>
E
Again, Proper interpretation has to be given.
No one is claiming the law is no longer valid, at least not from what I can see.
But many are saying in one breath, they are not saved by law. But if they do not obey the law they can;t be saved.
It is these people we must fight. for they lead others astray.
No one is claiming the law is no longer valid, at least not from what I can see.
But many are saying in one breath, they are not saved by law. But if they do not obey the law they can;t be saved.
It is these people we must fight. for they lead others astray.
Oh, I agree with you, EG. 
All of God's Word is good!
I read from both Old and New Testaments daily.
I meant more like, why place yourself under the Old Covenant rules and Torah Law when we have the Royal Law...the Law of Christ. The epistles are replete with instructions for Christians, ya know?
All of God's Word is good!
I read from both Old and New Testaments daily.
I meant more like, why place yourself under the Old Covenant rules and Torah Law when we have the Royal Law...the Law of Christ. The epistles are replete with instructions for Christians, ya know?
Jesus fulfilled the law Red,....so you don't have to wash in a certain way when you get up in the morning.
The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.
- (Notice WAS)
Jesus fulfilled it in it's entirety, his own are led by Him.
- - (Not back into the shadows of the laws of cleansing, which are shadows of the righteousness of Christ).
The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.
- (Notice WAS)
Jesus fulfilled it in it's entirety, his own are led by Him.
- - (Not back into the shadows of the laws of cleansing, which are shadows of the righteousness of Christ).
P
but don't you see that what you're saying is that God and the Old Covenant are the same thing?
Just because God's Covenant with man changed doesn't mean God changed. It's what He intended from the foundation of the world.
I think you fail to see His purpose in establishing the covenant with the nation of Israel.
It was conditional, dependent on the actions of the people, designed to make us see our great need of a Savior.
The New Covenant is entirely dependent on God through the righteousness of the Lord Jesus.
He establishes, maintains, and fulfills it.
We cannot add to it with our efforts (filthy rags).
We can only receive it by the faith given us in the person and work of Christ.
Just because God's Covenant with man changed doesn't mean God changed. It's what He intended from the foundation of the world.
I think you fail to see His purpose in establishing the covenant with the nation of Israel.
It was conditional, dependent on the actions of the people, designed to make us see our great need of a Savior.
The New Covenant is entirely dependent on God through the righteousness of the Lord Jesus.
He establishes, maintains, and fulfills it.
We cannot add to it with our efforts (filthy rags).
We can only receive it by the faith given us in the person and work of Christ.
