Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

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Mar 4, 2013
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Well I sure am benefiting from this thread. And of course, it's all about me. lol. But, again, for me it's really beneficial when I see solid reasoning that pulls all the scriptures together. Strengthens my faith, which makes me happy. :D
I'm glad you are learning and enjoying the learning.
Now, I'll start some discussion where people will be railing against me for my beliefs. The people against the covenants of the Old Testament and the Mosaic Law don't want to see their old nature that wars against the Spirit, so let me reiterate Paul's words. I'm in protest.
1 Corinthians 15:30-31 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Ezekiel 43:7-12 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

Psalm 89:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

Isaiah 11:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Revelation 12:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

By these scripture references it does appear that Jesus will rule during the millennium and rule using the moral and judgmental law. The sacrificial part has been fulfilled by Christ, the King of Kings.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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The old covenant is inseparable from its laws. The bible clearly teaches that the old covenant has passed away.

We're talking about an entirely new creation...
The bible clearly teaches what passed away, and we need to track closely and carefully to see each thing and not put our own ideas in it. It takes time and work, we are to do it. And our idea of "passed away" is not accurate. Christ replaced the need for these things so they are not needed any more. The temple passed away, for it was the center of the sacrificial system. In 72 it was destroyed, and another destruction happened in 132. We have the blood of Christ, no other blood is needed. Those things and things like them are passed away, Christ made new. You are taking things WAY beyond what God said. That is not listening carefully to your Lord.

One way to study this so you can be sure of its accuracy is to carefully look at things that are replaced by Christ, and follow them through to the New Testament to see the way that Christ is fulfilling each thing. Not to finish it off, like over and out and get rid of it is finished and dead. But to fulfill and make perfect.

"Entirely new creature" is a lie being taught to lead to God is dead. That Christ is not related to the Father. That is a dangerous statement that can be understood in ways opposed to God's truth. Constantine made it law that Christianity was an entirely new religion, that anything of the Old testament related to a cult, a false religion.
 
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If the HRM's thinking are along these lines (and in some cases they are either covertly or overtly)

paul...a true follower of jesus or a subverter of the faith of jesus and founder of a new religion?


where Paul is belittled and his teaching highly suspect to say the least.
I am glad you brought this up! Paul can be interpreted as saying God is against what God has said, so God isn't eternal. That the law shouldn't be listened to. I knew that God is truth, and I knew Paul only reported from God so I carefully printed out everything that could be said as one scripture against another. And I studied, using history of the period, scripture, many commentaries to check them out. I didn't assume, I looked carefully. And not once, when there is understanding through scripture, is there anything but agreement in God's word. I found if people find disagreement at all, it is time to dig in with serious study. God is correct, even if your understanding is missing the mark.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
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Since the OP is regarding Hebrew Roots Movement, I am dismayed that I don't see posted the root of the Movement. I'll explain, but first I must say that I was disassociated with any particular church or denomination when I began to study whether or not the Sabbath was ever done away with. That led to learning God's calendar, which led to understanding His Feasts which led to understanding that Yeshua/Jesus was in the grave for a full 3 nights and 3 days and that led me to dig even further, what else was I taught in church that omitted truth. I questioned Christmas and Easter and Sunday. I found them to not be scriptural but man made traditions. I wanted to understand also why did Jesus say "he came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel"? What was this "gospel of the kingdom of God/heaven"?

The foundation I learned in church that Jesus is the perfect Lamb of God and we are only justified of our sins through His Saving Grace remained intact, undisturbed or continued to be settled. But what is this House of Israel and House of Judah coming together again as stated in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

We see God the Father was married to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Then He divorced the house of Israel for their adultery of serving other gods.

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Se we see the promise of a New Covenant for backsliding Israel. Except there is a "Mystery" to this saga. God's own laws does not allow for remarriage after divorce, with the only exception being death of the old spouse.

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

I want post, but please review Hosea to see how God foretold that the house of Israel would no longer be His people, and how He later changed to say they are "MY PEOPLE".

Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi. His students were the apostles He called and the gospels are full of His teachings, matter of fact, He came to "pleroo" FULFILL or Fully Preach the Law and Prophets of the Old Covenant.

Why did Jesus disciples ask of Him, "will thou at this time restore again the Kingdom of Israel?

Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Because they were very very familiar with the Law and Prophets stating that the two divided kingdoms of Israel would be restored and they knew the prophecies that spoke of the Messiah who would restore with a NEW COVENANT.

So my understanding of some of the Old Testament and the New Testament (or Covenants) began to have much light shine and my eyes of understanding and praise for such an awesome God the Father and Yeshua/Jesus the Son of God for their never ending Grace and Love makes my heart sing for joy.

So, here comes the Hebrew Roots Movement!! What the Holy Spirit taught me through the OT and NT, being one unified story, turns out to be what the Hebrew Roots Movement is all about and teaching.

Out of sequence, but I also learned that God always had "foreigners" who took the oath of vowing to obey Him and Him only. That is the beauty of His grace, and it extends now to the whole world. Jesus said: Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And he sent out His disciples Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Then there is Romans 11 and how we are now of the Olive Tree (which is called Israel).

The entire books are about God's love and grace to His Chosen People and how through Abraham the Father of Faith was blessed. How Grace has always been extended to foreigners and Gentiles, those far off and those who are near.

Any questions? There is so much more I am not even touching on that Paul taught and that Yeshua/Jesus taught. It all fits together, the Old and the New.

I am glad Hebrew Roots Movement is happening and many in these last days will see the whole truth more clearly. Will there be new revelations to explore? Definitely and so I stay in the Word daily for as many hours as possible. I am not thinking I am a teacher, but I am a follower of Christ and He did say preach this gospel of the Kingdom of God to all the earth, so I financially support Hebrew Roots Movements that share the meaning of Jesus' gospel of the Kingdom of God/Heaven.

My favorite internet teachers are: Jim Staley, Passion for Truth Ministries. 119 Ministries at 119 Ministries. The Restored Church of God. Proffesor W.A. Liebenberg. I have listened and read some SDA, but I disagree with some of their teachings and elevation of Helen White as a Prophettess. I could be wrong, but that is where I stand for now.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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I know Paul is painful but... Rom 7:6

6 But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life].AMP

6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. ESV

6 But now we were discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were constantly being held down, insomuch that we are rendering habitually a slave's obedience in a sphere new in quality, that of the Spirit, and not in a sphere outworn as to usefullness, in a sphere of that which was put in writing. Wuest

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. KJV

6 But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law. HCSB
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Paul continues to be painful... Eph 2:14-15

14-15 For He is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility. In His flesh, 15 He made of no effect the law consisting of commands and expressed in regulations, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace. HCSB

14-15 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;KJV

14 For He himself is our peace, the One who made the both one, having broken down the middle wall of the partition, the enmity, 15 in His flesh having rendered inoperative the law of the commandments in ordinances, in order that the two He might create in himself, resulting in one new man, making peace, Wuest

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, ESV

14 For He is [Himself] our peace (our bond of unity and harmony). He has made us both [Jew and Gentile] one [body], and has broken down (destroyed, abolished) the hostile dividing wall between us,
15 By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace. AMP
 
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WomanLovesTX

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Jan 1, 2010
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Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

This is yet still in the future because it is not so yet....

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The new covenant has not taken place because Christ has not resurrected the saints, where in His Kingdom all will KNOW HIM and have no need for missionaries to spread the gospel anymore.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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I know the New Birth has taken place in many where God has written His law (His nature) in our hearts. We have a new heart.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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I know the New Birth has taken place in many where God has written His law (His nature) in our hearts. We have a new heart.
If we followed Crossnote’s interpretation of Paul instead of listening to God principles, we would have only the HS to guide us, and whatever our minds decided the HS spoke would be fine. We would have no word of law. That lets out Christ, for Christ is the word and the law is part of the word. So anything that came in our minds that we decided was actually the HS would be fine. We could judge any Jew who did anything Jewish as unfit for the kingdom, based on what he did. The new law would be “no not do”. Paul said to break down the dividing but we have to put up new dividing to close out the Jew from allowing him to accept Christ as his savior based on that he does Jewish things.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Crossnote forgive for they know not what they do. Praising their self which is idolatry. M an self righteousness find its ugly head in many places. If you hold to law then you are self righteous. If hold to living a clean life again you are self righteous. If you hold to the work of the cross the you are Righteous by the work of God. What can you do to be righteous. Please will some one tell me. Other than the cross.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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If we followed Crossnote’s interpretation of Paul instead of listening to God principles, we would have only the HS to guide us, and whatever our minds decided the HS spoke would be fine. We would have no word of law. That lets out Christ, for Christ is the word and the law is part of the word. So anything that came in our minds that we decided was actually the HS would be fine. We could judge any Jew who did anything Jewish as unfit for the kingdom, based on what he did. The new law would be “no not do”. Paul said to break down the dividing but we have to put up new dividing to close out the Jew from allowing him to accept Christ as his savior based on that he does Jewish things.
The Holy Ghost...
Is He impotent that He cannot act?
Is he dumb that He cannot speak?
Is He lawless that He won't chastise us when we go against Him?
Is not His love shed abroad in our hearts?
Is He uneducated that He is not the Author and teacher of His Word?
(and He dwells in me)
Does He not point us to Christ who tells us 'your faith has made you whole'?
Is He so confused that He can't draw both Jew and Gentile to the Son.
Christ broke down the dividing wall at His death, are you trying to rebuild it?

If we followed your interpretation of God's principles we would be back at Mt. Sinai groveling in bondage.
(This may sound harsh, but reread your post to me)
 
K

Kerry

Guest
The Hebrew movement is junk. If you want to please yourself and revile in self righteousness then that is the thing for you. If you want Gods plan then lean on the cross. Because my bible says that my righteousness is as a filthy rag.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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If we followed Crossnote’s interpretation of Paul instead of listening to God principles, we would have only the HS to guide us, and whatever our minds decided the HS spoke would be fine. We would have no word of law. That lets out Christ, for Christ is the word and the law is part of the word. So anything that came in our minds that we decided was actually the HS would be fine. We could judge any Jew who did anything Jewish as unfit for the kingdom, based on what he did. The new law would be “no not do”. Paul said to break down the dividing but we have to put up new dividing to close out the Jew from allowing him to accept Christ as his savior based on that he does Jewish things.
After reading this, I'm now fully convinced that obsessive fixation on keeping old covenant laws and (assumed) practices is a clear indication that intimate knowledge of the holy spirit is partially, or completely, lacking. IMO, proponents of such wear Christian clothes, say Christian things, quote scripture, etc., etc., but they do not know what it is to be led of the holy spirit (much, or at all). IMO, GOD is an just idea in their mind that needs some point of reference (Moses law) to distinguish itself from all other ideas in order to find some kind of stability to ward off perceived threats to their world view and sense of justification. Consequently, they need clearly delineated rules that define improper conduct (as opposed to an inward life that is guided by love for others) and sensual things like HR methods and paraphernalia to stimulate the emotions and simulate the holy spirit.
 
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Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

This is yet still in the future because it is not so yet....

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The new covenant has not taken place because Christ has not resurrected the saints, where in His Kingdom all will KNOW HIM and have no need for missionaries to spread the gospel anymore.
You seriously don't know what you're talking about.

And in the same way the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you. Luke 22:20

Likewise also the cup, after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 1 Corinthians 11:25


You' are an embarrassment.
 

KohenMatt

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Jun 28, 2013
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If you hold to law then you are self righteous. If hold to living a clean life again you are self righteous. If you hold to the work of the cross the you are Righteous by the work of God. What can you do to be righteous. Please will some one tell me. Other than the cross.
My righteousness is found in nothing but the sacrifice of Yeshua. Nothing else.

Yet I follow the principles and teachings of the Torah to know how to live.

Go figure, eh?;)
 
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Yet I follow the principles and teachings of the Torah to know how to live.
Go figure, eh?;)
This doesn't tell you how to live?

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

 

KohenMatt

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Jun 28, 2013
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This doesn't tell you how to live?

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

It sure does. But the entire Bible is full of instructions on how to live. And all of the Bible, including the Torah, can show us practically and spiritually how to treat other people.

i.e.
Leviticus 19:14 "‘You shall not curse a deaf man, nor place a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall revere your God; I am the LORD."
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

This is yet still in the future because it is not so yet.....
Its future for you...

For Christians who have come to Christ it is right now.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The new covenant has not taken place because Christ has not resurrected the saints, where in His Kingdom all will KNOW HIM and have no need for missionaries to spread the gospel anymore.
I don't have to tell crossnote or Herosefromthedead or unclefester or zone or EternallyGratefull, etc(et al, you know who you are) to know God, know the Lord. They understand the situation we are in. They understand the liberty that is in Christ. That wisdom only comes from one place.

He is Merciful to our unrighteousness, RIGHT NOW.
Our sin and iniqiuty He doesn't remember anymore, RIGHT NOW.
He puts His Holy Spirit in us, RIGHT NOW.
He gives us a new heart, RIGHT NOW.

For Christians who have come to Christ the old covenant has passed away. The New Covenant in His Grace, Mercy and Love is RIGHT NOW.


It would be like a person serving a prison sentence in America telling the world that they are free citizens. Actual Americans who aren't in prison tell an entirely different story, don't they? Is the American that is in prison still an American? I suppose so... They just don't have any of the priveleges that Americans have who aren't in prison.

Galatians 4:29-31
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.