DOES HUMAN NATURE VANISH AS SOON AS WE ARE BORN AGAIN?
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Look what God says about a peson that is IN CHRIST... I think people do not understand these two little WORDS.... IN CHRIST.
If a person is IN CHRIST, what does that mean? Were we not IN FLESH? What is the difference being IN CHRIST and IN FLESH? IS there a difference? And how big is the difference? How significantly does God change a man that is in sin(flesh) to a man in Christ?
This is the difference.... 2 Cor 5:17.... Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This NEW CREATURE looks like this....
1. They are the WORKMANSHIP of GOD Himself, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS unto GOOD WORKS.... (Eph 2:6)
2. They are made perfectly ONE WITH GOD IN CHRIST... (John 17)
3. They are all made unto a perfect man to the fulness of Christ Jesus.... (Eph 4:13)
4. The love of God is perfected in them all... (1 John 2:3)
5. They are all once again made in the image of HIMSELF and this time they will not sin again.... (Col 3:10) Christ is all in all.
The NEW creature of God is CHRIST IN ALL AND ALL IN CHRIST IS HIS....
The World keeps on sinning, God's children CANNOT SIN.... 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:18.... And look what Jesus said in John 17... Father I PRAY NOT FOR THE WORLD BUT FOR THOSE THOU HAST GIVEN ME, AND THOSE THAT WILL BELIEVE ON ME THROUGH THEIR WORD.....
Now DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?.... Matthew 5:48.... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I DO THANK GOD!
Just one more thing... BORN OF GOD, is actually not when WE ARE BORN AGAIN.... It is when we are BORN OF GOD...It is God being born again not us... It is God BORN IN US.... HIS seed remaineth in us not our seed....1 John 3:9.
If a person is IN CHRIST, what does that mean? Were we not IN FLESH? What is the difference being IN CHRIST and IN FLESH? IS there a difference? And how big is the difference? How significantly does God change a man that is in sin(flesh) to a man in Christ?
This is the difference.... 2 Cor 5:17.... Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This NEW CREATURE looks like this....
1. They are the WORKMANSHIP of GOD Himself, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS unto GOOD WORKS.... (Eph 2:6)
2. They are made perfectly ONE WITH GOD IN CHRIST... (John 17)
3. They are all made unto a perfect man to the fulness of Christ Jesus.... (Eph 4:13)
4. The love of God is perfected in them all... (1 John 2:3)
5. They are all once again made in the image of HIMSELF and this time they will not sin again.... (Col 3:10) Christ is all in all.
The NEW creature of God is CHRIST IN ALL AND ALL IN CHRIST IS HIS....
The World keeps on sinning, God's children CANNOT SIN.... 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:18.... And look what Jesus said in John 17... Father I PRAY NOT FOR THE WORLD BUT FOR THOSE THOU HAST GIVEN ME, AND THOSE THAT WILL BELIEVE ON ME THROUGH THEIR WORD.....
Now DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?.... Matthew 5:48.... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I DO THANK GOD!
Just one more thing... BORN OF GOD, is actually not when WE ARE BORN AGAIN.... It is when we are BORN OF GOD...It is God being born again not us... It is God BORN IN US.... HIS seed remaineth in us not our seed....1 John 3:9.
So what you are saying is that you are perfect in every way now, and you cannot sin because you have the indwelling Spirit of God? If that be the case, you don't have to die to yourself daily.......... right? That's really nice. I haven't gotten there yet. What procedure have you followed to get to that point? I'd like to be without sin too, but I'm not. You're human nature might be showing more than what you would prefer. I think you're hiding something.
1 John 1:6-10 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Romans 8:5-8 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 John 1:6-10 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Romans 8:5-8 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
If you are saying that human nature is actually a sin nature I would agree. I think the Bible calls that iniquity, being the natural state of the human race. Job describes that nature in these verses I think.
Job 15:12-16 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]That thou turnest thy spirit against God, and lettest such words go out of thy mouth?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?
Job 15:12-16 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]That thou turnest thy spirit against God, and lettest such words go out of thy mouth?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?
K
Sin nature = we are all born into sin it is our nature to sin. We are driven and are slaves to sin. we have no choice.
Human nature = are likes and dislikes. some like fish some don't. Some ride roller coasters ans some don't. However I can see where you might tie the two together because It is our Human nature to look to ourself for everything and rely own our own strength. This where the conflict is.
Divine nature = Place our faith and trust in the work of the cross and relying on it as mean God supplies all of our needs and relying on him through cross for every thing. The cross breaks the power of the sin nature. we are no longer salves to sin. However, if we look to ourselves (Human nature) the sin nature revives because God will not honor this act.
Remember Peter waking on the water, He took his eyes off of Jesus and sank. Then He cried Lord save me and walked on the water again. Our daily conflict and where we fail is looking to our strength, intellect, and knowledge.
Human nature = are likes and dislikes. some like fish some don't. Some ride roller coasters ans some don't. However I can see where you might tie the two together because It is our Human nature to look to ourself for everything and rely own our own strength. This where the conflict is.
Divine nature = Place our faith and trust in the work of the cross and relying on it as mean God supplies all of our needs and relying on him through cross for every thing. The cross breaks the power of the sin nature. we are no longer salves to sin. However, if we look to ourselves (Human nature) the sin nature revives because God will not honor this act.
Remember Peter waking on the water, He took his eyes off of Jesus and sank. Then He cried Lord save me and walked on the water again. Our daily conflict and where we fail is looking to our strength, intellect, and knowledge.
WOW! Really? If you could find where he said that, it would be beneficial to know, so we can show him the avenue that leads him to Christ.
Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
I like your definition. I sincerely believe that there has been a subtle untruth that has come through the ranks of the doctrine, that we, as believers have adopted to a large extent. That falsehood is that we know longer need to recognize that Christians are still temped with a sin nature, and our adversary uses that blindness to make us believe that we are above this human nature, and then everything that we do against the truth is forgiven without recognizing ourselves as we really are. Henceforth, we don't have any reason to repent, or confess, because we have been blinded.
1 Corinthians 2:13-16 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:13-16 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
2 Timothy 3:17... That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
God says in His Word that the man of God is perfect and God Himself FURNISHED this man unto ALL GOOD WORKS...
In just this one little verse God gives us a clear vision on what DEVINE NATURE is.... It is a perfect man that God furnshed for ALL HIS GOOD WORKS... Do you see any other NATURE in such a man? I cannot, I only see God's nature... Perfect GOOD WORKS... No sin.
Here is another verse that shows how GODLY men lives.... Men that put on this (nature.... Eph 4:24... And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The NEW MAN (with the NEW DEVINE NATURE) is created AFTER GOD, in righteousness and true holiness. There is no sin in holiness, let alone TRUE HOLINESS.... This is what God teach NOT ME.
I did not write the Bible, I only believe what the Bible teach. I know you can proof anything you like in the Bible, but the question we have to ask is this.....
DOES GOD WANT US TO BE PERFECT HERE ON EARTH?
I say YES! He is God and He can command whatever He wish. And HE commanded in MAtthew 5:48 for us to be perfect.
He commands high standard, but He also FURNISH ALL HIS MEN WITH THIS STANDARD... If God commanded us to be perfect, He will make us PERFECT.... He is Just and Fair.... God is God, he does not need your council to tell Him what to do.
Let me ask all of you this...
Is there any of the OLD you still in you? Do you still sin? Then you maybe need to ask God to save you. There is not ONE single verse in the Bible that even suggests that we remain in sin, or remain to sin, or are still sinners AFTER GOD HAS FURNISHED US... Saved us.
God says in His Word that the man of God is perfect and God Himself FURNISHED this man unto ALL GOOD WORKS...
In just this one little verse God gives us a clear vision on what DEVINE NATURE is.... It is a perfect man that God furnshed for ALL HIS GOOD WORKS... Do you see any other NATURE in such a man? I cannot, I only see God's nature... Perfect GOOD WORKS... No sin.
Here is another verse that shows how GODLY men lives.... Men that put on this (nature.... Eph 4:24... And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The NEW MAN (with the NEW DEVINE NATURE) is created AFTER GOD, in righteousness and true holiness. There is no sin in holiness, let alone TRUE HOLINESS.... This is what God teach NOT ME.
I did not write the Bible, I only believe what the Bible teach. I know you can proof anything you like in the Bible, but the question we have to ask is this.....
DOES GOD WANT US TO BE PERFECT HERE ON EARTH?
I say YES! He is God and He can command whatever He wish. And HE commanded in MAtthew 5:48 for us to be perfect.
He commands high standard, but He also FURNISH ALL HIS MEN WITH THIS STANDARD... If God commanded us to be perfect, He will make us PERFECT.... He is Just and Fair.... God is God, he does not need your council to tell Him what to do.
Let me ask all of you this...
Is there any of the OLD you still in you? Do you still sin? Then you maybe need to ask God to save you. There is not ONE single verse in the Bible that even suggests that we remain in sin, or remain to sin, or are still sinners AFTER GOD HAS FURNISHED US... Saved us.
Just a thought about forgiveness. We should forgive without the other coming to us, sin is not against us...
Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
We are forgiven as we forgive...
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
as:
G5613
ὡς
hōs
hoce
Probably adverb of compound from G3739; which how, that is, in that manner (very variously used as shown): - about, after (that), (according) as (it had been, it were), as soon (as), even as (like), for, how (greatly), like (as, unto), since, so (that), that, to wit, unto, when ([-soever]), while, X with all speed.
We are forgiven in the manner or direct relationship to the way we forgive others.
Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
We are forgiven as we forgive...
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
as:
G5613
ὡς
hōs
hoce
Probably adverb of compound from G3739; which how, that is, in that manner (very variously used as shown): - about, after (that), (according) as (it had been, it were), as soon (as), even as (like), for, how (greatly), like (as, unto), since, so (that), that, to wit, unto, when ([-soever]), while, X with all speed.
We are forgiven in the manner or direct relationship to the way we forgive others.
My answer to the question is: No.
If we no longer have our "human nature". . .then the flesh wouldn't be warring against the Spirit. God would not have to tell us to renew our minds and that is what we have to do to have "the mind of Christ."
Ephesians 4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:10,12,14,15 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him;. . .Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;. . .And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Above is how we manifest the "mind of Christ." None of the above would we have to do if we no longer had our human nature after becoming born again. Everything we did and said would automatically line up with the word of God and we know that it does not . . . . we are a work in progress.
If we no longer have our "human nature". . .then the flesh wouldn't be warring against the Spirit. God would not have to tell us to renew our minds and that is what we have to do to have "the mind of Christ."
Ephesians 4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:10,12,14,15 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him;. . .Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;. . .And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Above is how we manifest the "mind of Christ." None of the above would we have to do if we no longer had our human nature after becoming born again. Everything we did and said would automatically line up with the word of God and we know that it does not . . . . we are a work in progress.
I suppose this will add a little gasoline to the fire, but human nature does vanish when we are born again. The situation is that we are not born again until the resurrection and we are changed from flesh to spirit...
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Jesus is describing somethin quite different than humna here. Paul did like wise...
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God, we must be changed.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Paul shows here that that total change occurs at the last trump, the return of Christ.
This is why John said this...
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Now there is also another condition called being begotten...
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Peter assents to this condition...
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
We are botten to a lively hope but when does that occur? At the resurrection of the dead. When is that?
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
When are teh dead made alive? At His coming.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Jesus is describing somethin quite different than humna here. Paul did like wise...
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God, we must be changed.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Paul shows here that that total change occurs at the last trump, the return of Christ.
This is why John said this...
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Now there is also another condition called being begotten...
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Peter assents to this condition...
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
We are botten to a lively hope but when does that occur? At the resurrection of the dead. When is that?
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
When are teh dead made alive? At His coming.
Just-me Paul says two things ... And many more, but what do you think this means? ....
1 Cor 15:31... I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
And then he says...
Gal 2:20 ... I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Also .... Romans 6:8... Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
God CANNOT resurrect Christ in you while you are still alive in sin, HE CANNOT! If God does that, then He makes Himself a lier.... God says ..... If we die for HIS NAME SAKE (lay our sinful life down) we shall receive LIFE EVERLASTING.... He does not give life everlasting to those that loveth his own life. I hate my life here in this world, who shall releive me of this BODY OF SIN.... I THANK JESUS!!!!! HE SHALL....
Which of you are HONOURED by God?
1 Cor 15:31... I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
And then he says...
Gal 2:20 ... I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Also .... Romans 6:8... Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
God CANNOT resurrect Christ in you while you are still alive in sin, HE CANNOT! If God does that, then He makes Himself a lier.... God says ..... If we die for HIS NAME SAKE (lay our sinful life down) we shall receive LIFE EVERLASTING.... He does not give life everlasting to those that loveth his own life. I hate my life here in this world, who shall releive me of this BODY OF SIN.... I THANK JESUS!!!!! HE SHALL....
Which of you are HONOURED by God?
E
the problem is paul admitted he still sinned.
God loves us in grace, a father does not unlove a child because they disobay him, they show more love, the more love a child gets, the more grateful and trusting the child becomes of the father, which means the child will learn and start to do what the father asks of him.
Paul was the way he was because he understood Gods grace,, He understood God would never leave him, and would be faithful, even if he was faithless.
As paul said, IF Christ is in you, The BODY is DEAD because of sin (the sin which still resides) but the SPIRIT is alive because of RIGHTEOUSNESS (Gods justification through the blood of Christ)
God loves us in grace, a father does not unlove a child because they disobay him, they show more love, the more love a child gets, the more grateful and trusting the child becomes of the father, which means the child will learn and start to do what the father asks of him.
Paul was the way he was because he understood Gods grace,, He understood God would never leave him, and would be faithful, even if he was faithless.
As paul said, IF Christ is in you, The BODY is DEAD because of sin (the sin which still resides) but the SPIRIT is alive because of RIGHTEOUSNESS (Gods justification through the blood of Christ)