What Do I Do With This Verse?

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Noel139

Noel139

Senior Member
#1
Jul 1, 2013
196
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#1
1 Timothy 2:11-15 "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was formed first, then Eve. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control."

What?! I don't understand! I am not a quiet person and I will not be shut down just because of a man. I do not care who he is in my life! This has made me angry and I do not know what to do! This is scripture, so how can it be wrong? If it is not wrong then it is has to be right. So what does that mean for me? Am I just misunderstanding it? Adam was deceived also... He ate the fruit to... He let Eve talk him into doing the very thing GOD told him not to do. He was there when the serpent deceived his wife and he did nothing... He did not lead her, but, instead, let her lead him. So I have to have a child and my salvation depends on who they grow up to be? If that's true then I'm screwed. I do not want children because I lack that motherly quality that is the key ingredient to the whole parenting thing: I. AM. NOT. GOOD. WITH KIDS!!! Silence?! SILENCE???!!! Not possible. I am living with a couple who live exactly as that scripture says and I can't do that. The husband talks down to his wife for, goodness sake!!! She is not his equal, she's his child! If he says no then the answer is no... I don't think so. I am a believer in the husband leading his wife, but they also need to be partners. The wife needs a say so. Women can be easily lead astray because they lack the kind of strength that men kept with him when GOD took the Eve out of Adam. A woman needs a man over her and I have seen what it looks like when a woman is the head of a church and no man puts a stop to any of her ideas. It's ugly because it is not GOD's way. I get that, but that should not belittle her strength. I honestly do not know what to do... If this is what is meant to come out of marriage then I will avoid that vow like the plague! I am not Eve. I cannot be held in contempt because of her mistake. That would contradict the whole being reborn in Christ and being washed by His blood. I could cry! What is GOD's way here?
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#2
#2
Just because the man is supposed to be a leader and in control does not mean he should treat his wife like a slave.....Do unto others as you would have them do unto still applies there.

1 Peter 3:7

"Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered."

If you marry, choose your husband wisely.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#3
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
3,651
113
#3
ee gads. Let me ramble.
What would have happened if Eve had not conversed with the serpent but defer his questions to Adam?
She operated apart from her covering and was deceived.
Adam was disobedient true, but there is no indication he was deceived.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#4
#4
Well...eve was deceived, not Adam...even though they both sinned. And the fact God made man first. And Adam did instruct eve about God commandment in the garden.
 
Noel139

Noel139

Senior Member
#5
Jul 1, 2013
196
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#5
None of these answers really helped me at all with my question...
 
A

AmberGardner

Guest
#6
#6
It is correctly translated this way,

2 Timothy 2:11 A WIFE should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a wife to teach or to assume authority over her HUSBAND; she must be quiet."
Click to expand...

That is the footnoted translation in the NIV and it is the correct one. Know how to use Strong's Concordance? The words "woman" and "man" can also be translated "wife" and "husband." Wife and husband keep in context with the passages! And other verses.
Only a husband has authority over a his family!! No other man can come into his house and boss his wife around!!

Ephesians 5:24
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Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Click to expand...


Not to any man who comes along and tells her to sit down and shut up. Brothers in Christ are just that. Brothers.


Proverbs 21:36
Click to expand...
She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
Click to expand...
 
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Bryancampbell

Guest
#7
#7
AmberGardner said:
It is correctly translated this way,



That is the footnoted translation in the NIV and it is the correct one. Know how to use Strong's Concordance? The words "woman" and "man" can also be translated "wife" and "husband." Wife and husband keep in context with the passages! And other verses.
Only a husband has authority over a his family!! No other man can come into his house and boss his wife around!!



Not to any man who comes along and tells her to sit down and shut up. Brothers in Christ are just that. Brothers.


Click to expand...
my bible says woman, not wife.....maybe I need to look again
 
A

AmberGardner

Guest
#8
#8
BryanCampbell, please read the entire post that I posted.
 
A

AmberGardner

Guest
#9
#9
The Bible I just gave away said wife and husband.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#11
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
3,651
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#11
God's Way?

Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
(1Co 7:1-5)



I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be. Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you. But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
(1Co 7:26-29)

And I would have you free from worldly anxiety. An unmarried man concerns himself with the Lord's business--how he shall please the Lord; but a married man concerns himself with the business of the world--how he shall please his wife. There is a difference too between a married and an unmarried woman. She who is unmarried concerns herself with the Lord's business--that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but the married woman concerns herself with the business of the world--how she shall please her husband. Thus much I say in your own interest; not to lay a trap for you, but to help towards what is becoming, and enable you to wait on the Lord without distraction.
(1Co 7:32-35)



But even in Christian marriage, because of the flesh, there will be that friction of wills ...although I concur with your 'partners' idea.
 
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A

AmberGardner

Guest
#12
#12
Read it more than once to make sure
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You're being contentious with me. I'll end it here.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#14
#14
I'm even searching through notes/commentary, I still see it say woman...I need to study this more
 
Noel139

Noel139

Senior Member
#15
Jul 1, 2013
196
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#15
The moment I read that scripture I couldn't even think of finding others to explain it further. Just been having a hard time watching the couple I have been living with and it has been getting to me. Thank you guys for picking me up when I wasn't able to do that myself.
 
yahuadah

yahuadah

Banned
#17
May 11, 2013
117
0
0
#17
Noel139 said:
1 Timothy 2:11-15 "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was formed first, then Eve. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control."

What?! I don't understand! I am not a quiet person and I will not be shut down just because of a man. I do not care who he is in my life! This has made me angry and I do not know what to do! This is scripture, so how can it be wrong? If it is not wrong then it is has to be right. So what does that mean for me? Am I just misunderstanding it? Adam was deceived also... He ate the fruit to... He let Eve talk him into doing the very thing GOD told him not to do. He was there when the serpent deceived his wife and he did nothing... He did not lead her, but, instead, let her lead him. So I have to have a child and my salvation depends on who they grow up to be? If that's true then I'm screwed. I do not want children because I lack that motherly quality that is the key ingredient to the whole parenting thing: I. AM. NOT. GOOD. WITH KIDS!!! Silence?! SILENCE???!!! Not possible. I am living with a couple who live exactly as that scripture says and I can't do that. The husband talks down to his wife for, goodness sake!!! She is not his equal, she's his child! If he says no then the answer is no... I don't think so. I am a believer in the husband leading his wife, but they also need to be partners. The wife needs a say so. Women can be easily lead astray because they lack the kind of strength that men kept with him when GOD took the Eve out of Adam. A woman needs a man over her and I have seen what it looks like when a woman is the head of a church and no man puts a stop to any of her ideas. It's ugly because it is not GOD's way. I get that, but that should not belittle her strength. I honestly do not know what to do... If this is what is meant to come out of marriage then I will avoid that vow like the plague! I am not Eve. I cannot be held in contempt because of her mistake. That would contradict the whole being reborn in Christ and being washed by His blood. I could cry! What is GOD's way here?
Click to expand...
The most high says the man is the head of the woman and woman keep silence in church and don't teach. If he said that then that what he meant, don't try to philosophy it.

Collassians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 John 2:4 He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 
Noel139

Noel139

Senior Member
#18
Jul 1, 2013
196
1
18
31
#18
yahuadah said:
The most high says the man is the head of the woman and woman keep silence in church and don't teach. If he said that then that what he meant, don't try to philosophy it.

Collassians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 John 2:4 He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Click to expand...
That is certainly not what the LORD told me was the calling of my life. If that be so then may the HE strike and kill me now for I am a teacher and there is no better place to teach the Word of GOD than in HIS holy church.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#19
#19
Noel139 said:
That is certainly not what the LORD told me was the calling of my life. If that be so then may the HE strike and kill me now for I am a teacher and there is no better place to teach the Word of GOD than in HIS holy church.
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Then why did you say this in the OP?

"I have seen what it looks like when a woman is the head of a church and no man puts a stop to any of her ideas. It's ugly because it is not GOD's way."
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#20
#20
Let's not just go flying off the cliff just yet, before you have an chance to learn . Good grief...

1Tim.2
[1] I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

For all people there is no gender intended in this. It means all . The truth is for all men. Paul is saying do all these things.



[2] For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

Pray for these people to see the light. And away from the ungodly ways. Thought that;s not what they will do. But we can obey Christ.



[3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

God and Christ are the same one.


[4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

This is the will of God. ( John 3: 16. )


[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Christ is a live office of God, just as much as God came here in the flesh and was crucified ( 1 Timothy 3:16 )



[6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

. For all people . The gospel will be publish among all nations in due time. Just as Christ said ( Mark 13:10 )


[7] Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Ordained; he was chosen by Christ Himself, on the road to Damascus . A speaker that teaches the truth, and is set side for this mission. He speak the truth. Sincerity and in all truth.



[8] I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.


Put aside disbelief . Without arguments and strife. denominations for example.


[9] In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;


Modest, means not like a harlet.. Not with the attire of a harlet, is what he just described.


[10] But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.


[11] Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.


These verse are not just as they read in English.

[12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


What does the book of Acts and Joel tell us ? Women will teach in the Last Days, and the Holy Spirit will use them in the end times.

Acts 2: ( Peter quoting Joel )

[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
[19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
[20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. ( Mark 13: 11; Revelation 2: 10 kjv )

Paul is Not beating up on women here. He is however expecting women, to allow the men to be the head of the household. That is all. Today , we see women being with women, playing the role of the man, and men playing the role of the women. So this is needed, now more then ever....
Back in those times also, men where very protective of their position as a man.

[13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
[14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Well, we know, that they both where deceived .Adam did not put up much objection to what was going on. Adam did make a choice to listen to his wife rather then God , yes ? . This is one reason Paul said these things .He just drew Adam & Eve into this for a reason. .
Something to consider :
Women are enticing and beautiful.
It appears this is written in a sexes manner . But women hold some power in their appearance in the sight of a man.
This has nothing to do with being a preacher or teacher. Because Paul, had no problem teaching that women prophecy :
( 1 Cor 11: 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. )

Consider If a women stands up on stage also and starts to teach. Men, might be apt to be distracted by the women's body. This is not the women's fault, but this is the nature of things and Paul is taking this into consideration.


[15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


Sticking with the subject Eve, was saved, because . through her seed line through Seth would come Jesus Christ.
if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Remember also, the translators translated this from Greek. If you feel you need a closer look at the meanings of these words. Use a Strong's Concordance of the Bible for example .

And most of all Study ALL the Word's of God. so we can have a better understanding of the things we read from The Bible. Hos.4
[6] My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

We have to study . Or you risk the chance of tripping over it, and falling.
 
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