Mark of the beast is sunday laws.

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Shiloah

Guest
Jesus did many things in His earthly ministry. But one thing He did not do was set aside the moral law of God. The Pharisees and scribes had set aside God’s law (in favor of their own traditions), thereby “emptying” the law of any value (Matthew 15:3–6). And Jesus rebuked them for it (Matthew 15:7–9). It is ironic that some Christians think that Jesus came to abolish (abrogate, set aside, or do away with) the law, when Jesus specifically said that He did not come to abolish the law. This statement is given in reference to God’s law, in the beatitudes (Matthew 5:1-8:29), where Christ described the standards for appropriate behavior and attitude of the heart (i.e. morality). In Matthew 5:17, Jesus says, “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.”

Perhaps some people are inclined to say, “Well, if Jesus fulfilled the law, then we don’t have to obey it anymore.” But this misses the meaning of the word “fulfill.” The Greek word translated “fulfill” in this verse is “pleroo.” This word means “to confirm in full measure”, or to “establish” or “re-establish.” It has the sense of filling up a cup: in this case, the cup of God’s law that had been “emptied” by the Pharisees and scribes. Jesus was undoing what the Pharisees and scribes were doing. They were abrogating the law of God; Jesus came to re-establish it.

Even without consulting a Greek lexicon, it should be very obvious that the word “fulfill” as it is used in Matthew 5:17 cannot possibly mean “abolish”, or anything that implies a setting-aside of the law of God. For if it did then Jesus would be contradicting Himself. If “fulfill” means “abolish” then Jesus is essentially saying, “I did not come to abolish but to abolish”—which would make no logical sense.

In fact, it should be clear that “fulfill” must in some sense be the opposite of “abolish” since Jesus contrasts one with the other. For example, fill in the following sentence: “I did not come to make peace, but rather to make _____.” A good answer would be “war” or some similar term of division since such a term contrasts with peace. A bad answer would be “pancakes”, because that doesn’t contrast with peace. Even though that answer would be grammatically possible, it wouldn’t fit the context. Of course the worst possible answer would be “peace”, because then the sentence would be self-contradictory. Therefore, when Jesus says that He “did not come to abolish [the law] but to fulfill,” it is clear that in fulfilling the law He is doing something that sharply contrasts with abolishing the law. Christ came to establish the law in full measure. In the beatitudes, Christ gives a fuller explanation of the moral law, showing that it goes beyond the shallow, minimalistic, and externalized view of the Pharisees.

In the next verse (Matthew 5:18) Jesus goes on to say, “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” He is emphasizing His previous statement by pointing out the permanence of the moral law of God. Not even the smallest letter (In Hebrew this is a “jot”) or even a fraction of a letter (a “stroke” or “tittle”) of the law of God will pass away until heaven and earth do! In putting it this way, Jesus is indicating that God’s law is more permanent than the universe! The Greek phrase “until all is accomplished” literally means “until all has come to pass.” It’s another way of emphasizing that God’s law will outlast human history.

Jesus gives us the “bottom line” in the next verse. Having already indicated that He did not come to annul (set-aside) the law of God, that the law of God will outlast heaven and earth, Christ goes on to say that there are consequences for setting aside one of God’s standing laws. In Matthew 5:19 Jesus states, “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” As we have seen previously, God Himself may add to or subtract from His law. And many of the Old Testament ceremonial laws are examples of something that God Himself tells us are not binding on believers in the New Testament. The Law-Giver may do this. But we dare not set aside a law of God, lest we be considered very “small” in the kingdom of heaven.

This verse should motivate us to be very careful if we tell others that they don’t need to obey a particular biblical law. We had better be certain it’s a law that God Himself has set aside in later revelation. The result of setting aside a law of God (one that God Himself has not set aside) and teaching others to do the same is an eternal one; being considered “least” in the kingdom of heaven. You might think that the person who teaches others to keep all the standing laws of God would then be considered “great” in the kingdom of heaven. But that’s not quite what God’s Word teaches. Jesus tells us that those who teach and keep them shall be considered great. It’s easy enough to teach God’s laws, but we can all do better when it comes to obedience.

God’s Law: Established in Christ | Jason Lisle's Blog
 
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Shiloah

Guest
You complain that:

..and then you say nothing that supports the "Mark of the beast is sunday laws"!

<facepalm>
.
This all relates back to the "Mark of the Beast is the Sunday law" subject. You have to be able to see that. I can't imagine you're not intelligent enough to see that, hence, I can only deduce that this is just another ad honinum ploy. Again, the Mark of the Beast is the Sunday law is about the sabbath law which brings about the question of whether or not this discrepancy in the Catholic church is about the Mark of the Beast. Got it?
 
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This all relates back to the "Mark of the Beast is the Sunday law" subject. You have to be able to see that. I can't imagine you're not intelligent enough to see that, hence, I can only deduce that this is just another ad honinum ploy. Again, the Mark of the Beast is the Sunday law is about the sabbath law.
Its all jibberish danschance. As long as you go to heaven. You can take everything else and throw it in the trash.
All this is is an ego, trying to be right about something.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
The reality is that post ignores the truth to purvey a lie.

"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." (Col 2:14-16)

Col 2:14-16 clearly teaches that the sabbath was abolished and nailed to cross!

You've already been told what keeping the commandments are in previous posts. You chose to ignore the truth and continue purveying the lie that Christians are under the old covenant and must continue the Sabbath ritual in the flesh each week to earn a place in heaven.

Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 do not teach one must keep the old covenant Mosaic Sabbath each week in order to earn their way to heaven.

Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 do not teach we must keep the 10 commandments in addition to the gospel






Well in my opinion, this post encapsulates it all. It covers all variables.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
Its all jibberish danschance. As long as you go to heaven. You can take everything else and throw it in the trash.
All this is is an ego, trying to be right about something.
Matthew 5:19

Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Speak for yourself, gypsyhungry. What you claim is a direct contradiction of the above posted scripture of which you are guilty of doing and teaching. The meaningless jibberish you speak of is coming directly from you. And since it directly contradicts Christ's words, yes, I'm throwing it out in the trash as I would do any polluted garbage the carries disease. I'm also going to put your posts on ignore so they will no longer pollute my thinking.
Clearly you have no desire to seek the truth. If this continues, God may well turn you over to a reprobate mind. I'll just hope you aren't there already.


 
Aug 3, 2013
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Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I promise not to gloat when i makeit into heaven with you partner.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Jesus warns his disciples that “whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus has just spoken of “the Law and the Prophets” (5:17) or simply “the Law” (5:18), both with reference to the Hebrew Scriptures. The “least of these” is equivalent to “any of these” and stands in a long Jewish tradition that resisted all distinctions between major and minor commandments in the Law which the Pharisees were not respecting because they had divided the precepts of the law into lesser and greater teaching that they who violated the former were guilty of a trivial offence only.

But Christ teaches that in his kingdom they who make this distinction should be called least. That's what it's saying in the original language in its proper context. This doesn't translate to your misinterpretation that everyone is bound to the letter of the old covenant Mosaic Law God had with the ancient nation of Israel before Jesus fulfilled it and ushered in a new covenant and you are wrong to teach that it does.

As the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels asserts, "Yet this appearance is deceptive, for Matthew intends just the opposite. Later in his Gospel, Jesus will say, “On these two commandments [i.e., love for God and love for neighbor] depend all the law and the prophets” (22:40). It is precisely by obeying the two great commandments that a person obeys all the commandments, even the “least” (cf. the so-called Golden Rule of Mt 7:12: “So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets”)."

Now what you claim Shiloah is a direct contradiction of the scripture you posted of which you are guilty of doing and teaching. The meaningless gibberish you speak is coming directly from you (via the cults that influenced you) and it directly contradicts what Christ is actually saying in that passage but because you are ignorant of the historical context, cultural context, and original language context instead project onto the passage what you want it to mean so you can continue pretending that you are an ancient Israelite under the old covenant Mosaic law.

Is it starting to sink in yet? Do we have a pulse?

[Repeated Information]

Matthew 5:19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.Speak for yourself, gypsyhungry. What you claim is a direct contradiction of the above posted scripture of which you are guilty of doing and teaching. The meaningless jibberish you speak of is coming directly from you. And since it directly contradicts Christ's words, yes, I'm throwing it out in the trash as I would do any polluted garbage the carries disease. I'm also going to put your posts on ignore so they will no longer pollute my thinking. Clearly you have no desire to seek the truth. If this continues, God may well turn you over to a reprobate mind. I'll just hope you aren't there already.
 
D

danschance

Guest
Jesus warns his disciples that “whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus has just spoken of “the Law and the Prophets” (5:17) or simply “the Law” (5:18), both with reference to the Hebrew Scriptures. The “least of these” is equivalent to “any of these” and stands in a long Jewish tradition that resisted all distinctions between major and minor commandments in the Law which the Pharisees were not respecting because they had divided the precepts of the law into lesser and greater teaching that they who violated the former were guilty of a trivial offence only.

But Christ teaches that in his kingdom they who make this distinction should be called least. That's what it's saying in the original language in its proper context. This doesn't translate to your misinterpretation that everyone is bound to the letter of the old covenant Mosaic Law God had with the ancient nation of Israel before Jesus fulfilled it and ushered in a new covenant and you are wrong to teach that it does.

As the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels asserts, "Yet this appearance is deceptive, for Matthew intends just the opposite. Later in his Gospel, Jesus will say, “On these two commandments [i.e., love for God and love for neighbor] depend all the law and the prophets” (22:40). It is precisely by obeying the two great commandments that a person obeys all the commandments, even the “least” (cf. the so-called Golden Rule of Mt 7:12: “So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets”)."

Now what you claim Shiloah is a direct contradiction of the scripture you posted of which you are guilty of doing and teaching. The meaningless gibberish you speak is coming directly from you (via the cults that influenced you) and it directly contradicts what Christ is actually saying in that passage but because you are ignorant of the historical context, cultural context, and original language context instead project onto the passage what you want it to mean so you can continue pretending that you are an ancient Israelite under the old covenant Mosaic law.

Is it starting to sink in yet? Do we have a pulse?

[Repeated Information]

I am certain nothing we say to these neo-judaizers will have any effect. They remain convinced they have the truth and even if you post a scripture contrary to their legalistic beliefs, they will ignore it. They need the Holy Spirit to remove the scales from their eyes.

I just don't see any point to speaking them except to correct any error which they may spread to the weaker in the faith.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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This silly interpretation that the 4th commandment suggests we must work for 6 days out of seven or we're not following this commandment is preposterous. Clearly, this commandment is saying, "you may work for 6 days, but you must rest on the 7th." People worked continually in those days. Everything was made from scratch. Obviously, the Sabbath commandment was about taking a day of rest as opposed to working every day of the week.
Sorry Shiloah Here is what it says

Exodus 35

35 Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, “These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do:2For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

Deuteronomy 5

12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you.13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.

Exodus 31

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.

Sorry it's there in black in white work is to be done for SIX DAYS. It won't be so bad BUT IT IS REPEATED MULTIPLE TIMES
 
Aug 3, 2013
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Sorry Shiloah Here is what it says

Exodus 35

35 Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, “These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do:2For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

Deuteronomy 5

12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you.13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.

Exodus 31

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.

Sorry it's there in black in white work is to be done for SIX DAYS. It won't be so bad BUT IT IS REPEATED MULTIPLE TIMES
Does a persons salvation depend on celebrating the sabbath on saturday?
 
Aug 3, 2013
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Jesus warns his disciples that “whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus has just spoken of “the Law and the Prophets” (5:17) or simply “the Law” (5:18), both with reference to the Hebrew Scriptures. The “least of these” is equivalent to “any of these” and stands in a long Jewish tradition that resisted all distinctions between major and minor commandments in the Law which the Pharisees were not respecting because they had divided the precepts of the law into lesser and greater teaching that they who violated the former were guilty of a trivial offence only.

But Christ teaches that in his kingdom they who make this distinction should be called least. That's what it's saying in the original language in its proper context. This doesn't translate to your misinterpretation that everyone is bound to the letter of the old covenant Mosaic Law God had with the ancient nation of Israel before Jesus fulfilled it and ushered in a new covenant and you are wrong to teach that it does.

As the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels asserts, "Yet this appearance is deceptive, for Matthew intends just the opposite. Later in his Gospel, Jesus will say, “On these two commandments [i.e., love for God and love for neighbor] depend all the law and the prophets” (22:40). It is precisely by obeying the two great commandments that a person obeys all the commandments, even the “least” (cf. the so-called Golden Rule of Mt 7:12: “So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets”)."

Now what you claim Shiloah is a direct contradiction of the scripture you posted of which you are guilty of doing and teaching. The meaningless gibberish you speak is coming directly from you (via the cults that influenced you) and it directly contradicts what Christ is actually saying in that passage but because you are ignorant of the historical context, cultural context, and original language context instead project onto the passage what you want it to mean so you can continue pretending that you are an ancient Israelite under the old covenant Mosaic law. I
Is it starting to sink in yet? Do we have a pulse?

Just because your ignorance keeps you under the old covenant, dont put that on me. God released me from all your formalities. See you in heaven partner!
[Repeated Information]
Is it sinking in yet? Has it gotten through your thick, legalistic head yet? Hmmmm?
 
Jul 25, 2013
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You're maligning God's Word to "prove" your cult's false theology again just as you malign my words.

The speaker in Luke 16:17 is Jesus Christ who "is the end of the law, so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes" (Rom 10:4). Jesus maintained that the proper way to keep any commandment was to fulfill the purpose for which it was given. The law for Jesus was the expression of God’s will which is eternal and unchangeable. Jesus did not come to modify the will of God; Jesus fulfilled it.

As Jesus said in Matthew 5:17, ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all was fulfilled. With Jesus’ death and resurrection, his exaltation and the sending of the Holy Spirit upon the church, that time of fulfillment came. That which the law foreshadowed was now fulfilled. The law had come through Moses, grace and truth now came through Jesus Christ.

In the past the marks of membership of the people of God were being born a Jew (or becoming a proselyte), circumcision (if a male) and obedience to the Mosaic law. But now the marks of membership were faith in Jesus Christ and participation in His Holy Spirit.

Circumcision and observance of the Mosaic Law were no longer required. However, the love of God and love of neighbor, which summed up what the law required, were to be produced in those who had been reborn, have God's morality "written on their heart," and walk in the Spirit. The Mosaic law was no longer their law any more than the Mosaic covenant was still their covenant; however, their scripture (including the law) was still useful for ‘teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness’ (2 Tim. 3:16), as long as it was read paradigmatically. The Apostles John and Paul got the message, you obviously never did.

Paul makes it clear that with Christ's death and resurrection sinners are now declared righteous, not on the basis of their merits in keeping the old covenant Mosaic Sabbath law, but rather on the basis of their standing "in Christ": "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus" (Rom 8:1 RSV; cf. Rom 3:21–31; Gal 3:11; Eph 2:8–9). Jesus doesn't then toss them all into hell anyway for failing to adhere to the external observance of the old covenant Mosaic Sabbath law (which the cult of SDA false theology designed by SDA false prophets teach).

Simply, Jesus never doubted the authority of the Mosaic Law for the time preceding the entrance of the kingdom, and his instructions to followers living in that time will naturally include admonitions to obey those Laws. But Jesus clearly reveal that He transcends it and also that a new era of salvation history is indeed breaking in. This is an era in which Jesus’ own teaching will be the central authority for the people of God and that only in Christ can grace now be found with the Mosaic Law no lnoger having the same position and significance that it had before.

Now Paul wrote the Book of Romans and saw Jesus as “abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations” (Eph 2:15). Through him “we have been released from the law” which once “bound us” (Rom 7:6). Serving “in the old way of the written code” (Rom 7:6) and seeking to establish his own righteousness (Rom 10:3) had only brought Paul into opposition to the very purpose of God rather than into peace with God.

In Romans 7 he shows that the law as expression of God’s will remains; that it reveals, as ever, human sin and rebellion against God. But he also shows that the law is powerless to bring about obedience. It is an external norm; it does not provide the power with which to achieve the norm. Therefore the attempt to achieve righteousness based on the law (Rom 10:5) invariably ends in the experience of failure. Paul’s summation of this experience is caught up in the words “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me?” (Rom 7:24). His answer to that question is “Jesus Christ our Lord” (Rom 7:25). Why? Because “Christ is the end of the law.” The word “end” (telos) can designate eitherthe “goal,” “outcome,” “purpose” toward which something is directed, or the “end,” “cessation.” Many Biblical interpreters believe that both meanings are caught up in this text. For Paul, the law “was our custodian until Christ came” (Gal 3:24 RSV). Its temporary function has now been accomplished; and Christ is therefore also the terminus, the cessation of the law.

But Paul is saying much more here than simply repeating the conviction of one aspect of his tradition and the witness of the early church that there is a cessation of the law in the messianic period. He qualifies the conviction that the Mosaic law has been completed and abrogated in Christ with the phrase “unto righteousness.” English translations have not served us well here, for they have generally blunted the connection between the statement “Christ is the end of the law” and the qualifying phrase “unto righteousness.”

The preposition unto expresses purpose or goal. Christ is not the end of the law in an absolute sense. He does not abolish the will of God as expressed in the law. Rather his coming signals its end with regard to the attainment of righteousness (that is, right relationship with God). He is the revelation ofGod’s righteousness (Rom 1:17). His life is an incarnation of God’s relation-restoring action, God’s way of setting us right (Rom 10:3). Therefore, the lawas a means of approach to God, as that which determines relationship with God, as that which was perceived in Paul’s Jewish tradition to lead to life on the basis of conformity, has been abolished.

A third phrase in this text adds a further qualifier to the assertion that Christ is the end of the law. Namely, he is the end of the law “for everyone who believes.” For it is only in the response of faith to Christ, in the humble submission to God’s righteousness (Rom 10:3) that the bondage of the law—consisting of its revelation of sin and its inability to help us beyond it—can come to its end.

Paul provides no grounds for imposing the Hebrew sabbath on the Christian. The Christian is free from the burden because the Spirit of Christ enables him to fulfill God's will apart from external observance. The author of Hebrews likewise speaks of the Hebrew sabbath only as a type of "God's rest," which is theinheritance of all the people of God (Heb 4:1-10). He does not tell his readers to keep the sabbath, but rather urges them to "strive to enter that rest" (4:11).

Such a travel motif becomes all the more related to an eschatological mindset when we recall that Jesus is described in Hebrews 12:2 as the “Pioneer and Perfector” of faith, the one who not only begins but brings to completion the journey of faith. It is difficult not to see the future Parousia of Jesus Christ as the time when his role as “Perfector” is played out, a suggestion which also helps to make sense of the curious declaration made in Hebrews 4:9 about Joshua not giving “rest” to the people of God. It seems certain that the author is playing with the name “Joshua” (Iēsous), seeing the OT character as a prefigurement of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And it was all good for centuries until someone made the mistake of asking a certain William Miller to speak in their church in 1831 which resulted in him making a false prophecy and a small group of people in denial who couldn't accept the fact that the false prophecy failed weaving ridiculous heresys together to try and "prove" that it actually had happened. Rachel Oakes Preston's arrival only got them more lost and in bondage and here we are today with SDA "evangelists" maligning God's Word on CC to "save" everyone by pulling them into their gross hermeneutical error.

Praise the Lord for the understanding and the GIFT TO EXPRESS the meaning which you have received from the Holy Spirit. I have the understanding, and the gift well..there are many gifts and this ability (this gift) to express in words I don't have. Keep up your faith as it inspires many. Kind of sucks for me for I live among many unbelievers and homosexuals that I've been around for years and can't seem to get the message across to. Maybe I'm casting my pearls to swine but if there is hope for me, then I'd like to think there is also hope for them and all I can be is a witness and an example.
I
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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Is it sinking in yet? Has it gotten through your thick, legalistic head yet? Hmmmm?
Gypsyhungry, you are new to this site, I'd advise you read the CC rules.

2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.


We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
Praise the Lord for the understanding and the GIFT TO EXPRESS the meaning which you have received from the Holy Spirit. I have the understanding, and the gift well..there are many gifts and this ability (this gift) to express in words I don't have. Keep up your faith as it inspires many. Kind of sucks for me for I live among many unbelievers and homosexuals that I've been around for years and can't seem to get the message across to. Maybe I'm casting my pearls to swine but if there is hope for me, then I'd like to think there is also hope for them and all I can be is a witness and an example.
I
 
Aug 3, 2013
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Gypsyhungry, you are new to this site, I'd advise you read the CC rules.

2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.

T

We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending

people,
whatever, then that person is not welcome.
Really? Please. Save your threats and boot me. Your luke warm approach makes wanna spit you out.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus did many things in His earthly ministry. But one thing He did not do was set aside the moral law of God. The Pharisees and scribes had set aside God’s law (in favor of their own traditions), thereby “emptying” the law of any value (Matthew 15:3–6). And Jesus rebuked them for it (Matthew 15:7–9). It is ironic that some Christians think that Jesus came to abolish (abrogate, set aside, or do away with) the law, when Jesus specifically said that He did not come to abolish the law. This statement is given in reference to God’s law, in the beatitudes (Matthew 5:1-8:29), where Christ described the standards for appropriate behavior and attitude of the heart (i.e. morality). In Matthew 5:17, Jesus says, “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.”

Perhaps some people are inclined to say, “Well, if Jesus fulfilled the law, then we don’t have to obey it anymore.” But this misses the meaning of the word “fulfill.” The Greek word translated “fulfill” in this verse is “pleroo.” This word means “to confirm in full measure”, or to “establish” or “re-establish.” It has the sense of filling up a cup: in this case, the cup of God’s law that had been “emptied” by the Pharisees and scribes. Jesus was undoing what the Pharisees and scribes were doing. They were abrogating the law of God; Jesus came to re-establish it.

Even without consulting a Greek lexicon, it should be very obvious that the word “fulfill” as it is used in Matthew 5:17 cannot possibly mean “abolish”, or anything that implies a setting-aside of the law of God. For if it did then Jesus would be contradicting Himself. If “fulfill” means “abolish” then Jesus is essentially saying, “I did not come to abolish but to abolish”—which would make no logical sense.

In fact, it should be clear that “fulfill” must in some sense be the opposite of “abolish” since Jesus contrasts one with the other. For example, fill in the following sentence: “I did not come to make peace, but rather to make _____.” A good answer would be “war” or some similar term of division since such a term contrasts with peace. A bad answer would be “pancakes”, because that doesn’t contrast with peace. Even though that answer would be grammatically possible, it wouldn’t fit the context. Of course the worst possible answer would be “peace”, because then the sentence would be self-contradictory. Therefore, when Jesus says that He “did not come to abolish [the law] but to fulfill,” it is clear that in fulfilling the law He is doing something that sharply contrasts with abolishing the law. Christ came to establish the law in full measure. In the beatitudes, Christ gives a fuller explanation of the moral law, showing that it goes beyond the shallow, minimalistic, and externalized view of the Pharisees.

In the next verse (Matthew 5:18) Jesus goes on to say, “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” He is emphasizing His previous statement by pointing out the permanence of the moral law of God. Not even the smallest letter (In Hebrew this is a “jot”) or even a fraction of a letter (a “stroke” or “tittle”) of the law of God will pass away until heaven and earth do! In putting it this way, Jesus is indicating that God’s law is more permanent than the universe! The Greek phrase “until all is accomplished” literally means “until all has come to pass.” It’s another way of emphasizing that God’s law will outlast human history.

Jesus gives us the “bottom line” in the next verse. Having already indicated that He did not come to annul (set-aside) the law of God, that the law of God will outlast heaven and earth, Christ goes on to say that there are consequences for setting aside one of God’s standing laws. In Matthew 5:19 Jesus states, “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” As we have seen previously, God Himself may add to or subtract from His law. And many of the Old Testament ceremonial laws are examples of something that God Himself tells us are not binding on believers in the New Testament. The Law-Giver may do this. But we dare not set aside a law of God, lest we be considered very “small” in the kingdom of heaven.

This verse should motivate us to be very careful if we tell others that they don’t need to obey a particular biblical law. We had better be certain it’s a law that God Himself has set aside in later revelation. The result of setting aside a law of God (one that God Himself has not set aside) and teaching others to do the same is an eternal one; being considered “least” in the kingdom of heaven. You might think that the person who teaches others to keep all the standing laws of God would then be considered “great” in the kingdom of heaven. But that’s not quite what God’s Word teaches. Jesus tells us that those who teach and keep them shall be considered great. It’s easy enough to teach God’s laws, but we can all do better when it comes to obedience.

God’s Law: Established in Christ | Jason Lisle's Blog
Your right. Jesus did do many things.

One of the most important thing he did (of course the most important thing he did was fulfill the law so we can be freed from the penalty of the law) is do the second thing the law could not do. Show us HOW to do what the law says we should do.

The major problem you all have is the law does not tell us how to obey it. You can jump up and down, scream at the top of your lungs, cry or do whatever. Telling us we HAVE to obey it. But what you will never understand UNTIL YOU TURN TO THE NEW WAY OF DOING THINGS is understand HOW TO DO IT!

Because the law does not tell you how to do it. It just tells you how you are doing (it convicts when you fail) which is ALL IT CAN DO!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Is it sinking in yet? Has it gotten through your thick, legalistic head yet? Hmmmm?
Do you have anything good and pertinent to say to people? All it seems you want to do is bash people. How do you think that is advancing the kingdom of God?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sorry Shiloah Here is what it says

Exodus 35

35 Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, “These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do:2For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

Deuteronomy 5

12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you.13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.

Exodus 31

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.

Sorry it's there in black in white work is to be done for SIX DAYS. It won't be so bad BUT IT IS REPEATED MULTIPLE TIMES
Amen, and I see NOTHING in there which states the sabbath is a day of worship. That cam later as man added to the laws of God and changed its origional intended meaning.