Gay couple to sue church over gay marriage opt-out
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Ezekiel 16:49 "“‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. "
I would like to correct my post but the thread is not letting me edit.
Ezekiel 16:49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
The sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, it was self-centredness, greed, and apathy. The men who wanted to rape the other men wanted to humiliate them by raping them. They did not want to rape them because they were gay. Rape was their idea of punishment for breaking the law of the city that one cannot show hospitality to outside travellers because they were greedy and afraid that outside people would steal from them or take advantage of them.
Also, many people who cite this story from Genesis 19 to condemn homosexual acts often do not put any emphasis on the fact that Lot, in his effort to protect the men in his house, offered his virgin daughters to be raped instead. Lot acted no better than the men knocking on his door.
I agree with David, that picture seems a bit extreme in content for a website with Christian values.
Ezekiel 16:49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
The sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, it was self-centredness, greed, and apathy. The men who wanted to rape the other men wanted to humiliate them by raping them. They did not want to rape them because they were gay. Rape was their idea of punishment for breaking the law of the city that one cannot show hospitality to outside travellers because they were greedy and afraid that outside people would steal from them or take advantage of them.
Also, many people who cite this story from Genesis 19 to condemn homosexual acts often do not put any emphasis on the fact that Lot, in his effort to protect the men in his house, offered his virgin daughters to be raped instead. Lot acted no better than the men knocking on his door.
I agree with David, that picture seems a bit extreme in content for a website with Christian values.
i disagree! for child abuse etc i think they should and be shamed because that is not christian in any sense of the word!!!
but how anyone can sue a church over upholding religious beliefs is beyond me!
Why can't you control your attractions? Its called self control.
Homosexuality is immoral. It is spiritually and physically damaging and a sin. Culture does not trump truth. There are cultures where murder is acceptable...does that make murder not a sin?
'' Because morality is based on personal experiences, opinions, and interpretations it is pointless to discuss the morality of some subjects.''
Another societal destructor exhibited. There is no such thing as truth....and there is no moral implication in homosexuality?
''The homosexual agenda is a strong one, but perverts usually are serious about their addictions.''
It is true I equated homosexuals with being perverts, but this statement does not limit perversion to just homosexuals but all who are perverts that excuse their addictions. While I do not want to offend homosexuals, I do,also, want them to understand their lifestyles are not only against nature and God, its bad for them and society.
Strong language needs to be used.
A man who has an attraction for other men, is someone who has been hurt. Hurt people, hurt people, even themselves.
Homosexuality is clearly a sin in the bible. I am not sure what point you are trying to communicate here.
D
Daniel94
Guest
If it is the leaders then you should be angered at them for using a group of people not the group of people themselves.
So you're telling me you can control when you're attracted to a woman. You must be some kind of special to be able to do that. I have self control, but I can't control if I think another guy is hot. What I can control is how I react to that thought. Now as I said if you would please kindly share with the rest of us how exactly you gained the ability to control when you're attracted to someone it would be greatly appreciated. I mean I would just switch off my attraction to guys right now and turn on my attraction to women. At least then we would not be discussing this here and now.
If you noticed I said the morality of SOME subjects are pointless to discuss, such as homosexuality. How do two guys getting married or two woman affect your life? Do you really think I think murder is moral? I think murder is immoral just as any sane person would. The morality of murder never needs to be questioned. Also, exactly where is murder acceptable?
Strong language never needs to be used. There are enough words in the English language to get your point across without using harsh words against people, not that I let words have a negative impact on my life, but someone else might so you really should watch what you post. How is two guys being together or two women bad for society? As for nature, you can find homosexuality in nature, although, I know that is not the nature you are talking of.
Exactly who has hurt me?
R
RachelBibleStudent
Guest
people who ignorantly follow a leader are equally to blame...ignorance does not equal innocence...
''So you're telling me you can control when you're attracted to a woman''
Absolutely...its called marriage. I can't say I never find another woman attractive but I have no interest in them. Its self control.
''How do two guys getting married or two woman affect your life?''
It effects us all by changing what a family is. God created two genders, not just for physical procreation, if so then both genders could act alike. They do not.
In a family, where there are two committed people, male and female, everything is present to raise a child well. A father and his innate abilities and a mom with her's. Men and women are different so everything that is needed to create a healthy society by raising well adjusted kids is present.
A man with a man or a woman with a woman does not cut it. (Neither do single parents and I am sure the vast majority of them would not want to be single parents )
I am christian. I know the bible is inerrant. 1 Corinthians 13 says there is no love in sin. Homosexuality is clearly a sin in the bible...hence...there is no love in a homosexual union.
I would not want kids to be purposely raised in a no love situation.
Heterosexual marriages are not perfect either and some are pretty messed up, but with a man and a woman in marriage raising kids, there is always the possibility of success, not so with homosexual unions.
Absolutely...its called marriage. I can't say I never find another woman attractive but I have no interest in them. Its self control.
''How do two guys getting married or two woman affect your life?''
It effects us all by changing what a family is. God created two genders, not just for physical procreation, if so then both genders could act alike. They do not.
In a family, where there are two committed people, male and female, everything is present to raise a child well. A father and his innate abilities and a mom with her's. Men and women are different so everything that is needed to create a healthy society by raising well adjusted kids is present.
A man with a man or a woman with a woman does not cut it. (Neither do single parents and I am sure the vast majority of them would not want to be single parents )
I am christian. I know the bible is inerrant. 1 Corinthians 13 says there is no love in sin. Homosexuality is clearly a sin in the bible...hence...there is no love in a homosexual union.
I would not want kids to be purposely raised in a no love situation.
Heterosexual marriages are not perfect either and some are pretty messed up, but with a man and a woman in marriage raising kids, there is always the possibility of success, not so with homosexual unions.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
The homosexual acts, homosexual rape, etc... occurring in Sodom (Gen 19) are of such a harsh and disturbing narrative that they echo through the rest of the canon.
For from Genesis on, Sodom becomes an image for gross immorality in 2 Peter 2:6–8 and Jude 7. And yes, in contexts like Isaiah 1 and Ezekiel 16 the Sodom symbol also refers to injustices including adultery and neglect of the poor.
But the exegesis of the Sodom and Gibeah stories (Gn. 19:1–25; Jdg. 19:13–20:48) certainly refutes the claim that the sin God punished on these occasions was a breach of hospitality etiquette without sexual overtones. That false assertion fails when the original language is examined. For example, the double usage of the word ‘know’ (yāḏa‘) and the reason behind the substitutionary offer of Lot’s daughters and the Levite’s concubine.
Now forward to Romans 1 in which Paul condemns all homosexual acts, lesbian as well as male, in the same breath as idolatry (vv. 23–27). But note that his theological canvas is broader than that of Leviticus (1).
Instead of treating homosexual behavior as an expression of idolatrous worship, he traces both to the bad ‘exchange’ fallen man has made in departing from his Creator’s intention. Seen from this angle, every homosexual act is unnatural, not because it cuts across the individual’s natural sexual orientation (which, of course, it may not) or infringes OT law, but because it flies in the face of God’s creation scheme for human sexual expression.
That means you.
(1) Leviticus 18:22 proscribes the act of a male lying with another male, classifying it as an “abomination” or “detestable thing.” The Hebrew word comes from the root “to abhor,” and the image emphasizes both ritually and ethically God’s call to reject such behaviors.
For from Genesis on, Sodom becomes an image for gross immorality in 2 Peter 2:6–8 and Jude 7. And yes, in contexts like Isaiah 1 and Ezekiel 16 the Sodom symbol also refers to injustices including adultery and neglect of the poor.
But the exegesis of the Sodom and Gibeah stories (Gn. 19:1–25; Jdg. 19:13–20:48) certainly refutes the claim that the sin God punished on these occasions was a breach of hospitality etiquette without sexual overtones. That false assertion fails when the original language is examined. For example, the double usage of the word ‘know’ (yāḏa‘) and the reason behind the substitutionary offer of Lot’s daughters and the Levite’s concubine.
Now forward to Romans 1 in which Paul condemns all homosexual acts, lesbian as well as male, in the same breath as idolatry (vv. 23–27). But note that his theological canvas is broader than that of Leviticus (1).
Instead of treating homosexual behavior as an expression of idolatrous worship, he traces both to the bad ‘exchange’ fallen man has made in departing from his Creator’s intention. Seen from this angle, every homosexual act is unnatural, not because it cuts across the individual’s natural sexual orientation (which, of course, it may not) or infringes OT law, but because it flies in the face of God’s creation scheme for human sexual expression.
That means you.
(1) Leviticus 18:22 proscribes the act of a male lying with another male, classifying it as an “abomination” or “detestable thing.” The Hebrew word comes from the root “to abhor,” and the image emphasizes both ritually and ethically God’s call to reject such behaviors.
M
Missachu
Guest
In the beginning, God created man and said that it is not good for man to be alone. God intended for man to have a suitable companion. Before the fall of man, a suitable companion for a male human was to be the female human. After sin came upon the world, God's plans for perfection were ruined and therefore, flawed variations came about. Still, God did say it is not good for man to be alone. And yet people continue to suggest due to laws in Leviticus that actually have very little significance today or because of the mistranslations and misinterpretations of other verses in the Bible (such as in Genesis 19, Romans 1, and 1 Corinthians) that one variation of man should be alone, even though God himself said all his creation should have an equal opportunity to have a companion.
Your interpretation that because homosexuality in sinful, there is no love, is misinformed. Homosexuality is only considered sinful whereas heterosexuality isn't simply because of the aspect of gender.
It suggests that just because of the gender of the people who are fully capable of loving just as anyone else happens to be the same, means their relationship is immediately loveless.
The gender of two people does not decide the amount of love in the relationship.
The gender of two people does not contribute to how a child would grow up.
The gender of two people does not say anything other than whether the relationship is homosexual or heterosexual.
Men and women are generally different, yes, but only because of gender roles. When a man has more masculine habits than feminine habits and a woman more feminine habits than masculine, we see that as successful and normal. However, this is not how everyone is. In fact, that is the minority. Most people are mixed. Some people are almost the opposite of the "norm." Man and woman ultimately become just labels for what the person was biologically born as or chooses to identify as.
I am a gay girl. I understand how gay people are, which is just like anyone else. I also was once a Christian for most of my life. I, too, understand that everyone can interpret the Bible differently. This is just my interpretation.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
More nonsense and false assertions from terminally. Whenever I see such sweeping ignorance and deception, I know God is NOT behind it.
There are sweeping differences between men and women that certainly transcend mere "gender roles."
It is no small thing that Paul uses the differentiation between men and women in their designed role as husband and wife as the portrait of the relationship between Christ and His church.
Look at Genesis 5:2, "He [God] created them male (1) and female (2), and He blessed them and named them Man (3) in the day when they were created."
1 male = זָכָר
2 female = נְקֵבָה
3 Man = אָדָם
1 male means a biological male not just a gender role. 2 female means a biological female not just a gender role. 3 means mankind or humanity encompassing both biological males and females with the gender roles that each were designed for.
God created males and females biologically distinct who only together receive the mandate to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion over creation (Gen 1:27–28). Together a biological male and biological woman are complete (Gen 2:18–25). The very pairing of man and woman in the assertion "male and female he created them" (Gen 1:27 RSV) implies that together the two biologically different sexes make up humanity and the great manifestation of this essential unity is marriage (Gen 2:23–24) between a man and a woman.
In the Genesis 1 creation account, Adam emerges as "the human" (hā’āḏām, Gen 1:26–27), differentiated as a biological male and biological female (e.g. "male זָכָר and female נְקֵבָה He [God] created them" http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-27.htm).
If you understand ancient Hebrew, you can clearly see the language COMPLETELY REFUTES your false assertions.
When Genesis 1-3 are lined up next to Ephesians 5 we see that husband and wife means a biologically differentiated man and woman and that this was God's intent from the beginning. Christ did not come to destroy gender distinctions between biologically differentiated men and women but to repair them so that they might operate in such a way that shows His glory
People who choose to engage in homosexual acts malign scripture, malign God's intent, malign God's plan for humanity, etc... to justify their homosexually immoral behavior.
Instead of justifying your sin, as you intend, you are rather incurring greater judgment because you twist God's Word to justify your sin encouraging others to participate in the sin with you. It would be far better for you at the judgment if you had just admitted that what you were doing was in contradiction to God's Word and that you were struggling with it. Grace is always available to the repentant. Right now, you just don't qualify.
There are sweeping differences between men and women that certainly transcend mere "gender roles."
It is no small thing that Paul uses the differentiation between men and women in their designed role as husband and wife as the portrait of the relationship between Christ and His church.
Look at Genesis 5:2, "He [God] created them male (1) and female (2), and He blessed them and named them Man (3) in the day when they were created."
1 male = זָכָר
2 female = נְקֵבָה
3 Man = אָדָם
1 male means a biological male not just a gender role. 2 female means a biological female not just a gender role. 3 means mankind or humanity encompassing both biological males and females with the gender roles that each were designed for.
God created males and females biologically distinct who only together receive the mandate to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion over creation (Gen 1:27–28). Together a biological male and biological woman are complete (Gen 2:18–25). The very pairing of man and woman in the assertion "male and female he created them" (Gen 1:27 RSV) implies that together the two biologically different sexes make up humanity and the great manifestation of this essential unity is marriage (Gen 2:23–24) between a man and a woman.
In the Genesis 1 creation account, Adam emerges as "the human" (hā’āḏām, Gen 1:26–27), differentiated as a biological male and biological female (e.g. "male זָכָר and female נְקֵבָה He [God] created them" http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-27.htm).
If you understand ancient Hebrew, you can clearly see the language COMPLETELY REFUTES your false assertions.
When Genesis 1-3 are lined up next to Ephesians 5 we see that husband and wife means a biologically differentiated man and woman and that this was God's intent from the beginning. Christ did not come to destroy gender distinctions between biologically differentiated men and women but to repair them so that they might operate in such a way that shows His glory
People who choose to engage in homosexual acts malign scripture, malign God's intent, malign God's plan for humanity, etc... to justify their homosexually immoral behavior.
Instead of justifying your sin, as you intend, you are rather incurring greater judgment because you twist God's Word to justify your sin encouraging others to participate in the sin with you. It would be far better for you at the judgment if you had just admitted that what you were doing was in contradiction to God's Word and that you were struggling with it. Grace is always available to the repentant. Right now, you just don't qualify.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
The ) at the end got in the way. The link should forward to here: Genesis 1:27 Hebrew Texts and Analysis
I'm not surprised over this. I'm honestly not. I knew this was going to happen. A gay couple wanted to be married by a pastor in their church, they say no, and BOOM! It goes viral.
In America, I fully believe if it happens over here too, and it will eventually become a civil liberty case that will go before the Supreme Court. No church or pastor will say no to marrying anyone, or else. It might happen in England too. Except, England's government is run differently. But the law might eventually come about there.
In America, I fully believe if it happens over here too, and it will eventually become a civil liberty case that will go before the Supreme Court. No church or pastor will say no to marrying anyone, or else. It might happen in England too. Except, England's government is run differently. But the law might eventually come about there.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
"Then He [Jesus] left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, 'Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.'
And He said, 'The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." -Matthew 13:36-43 (NASB).
In Revelation 14:14–20 two harvests, grain and grapes, are depicted. In both cases God’s covenant people are forever separated from their enemies. The two groups are never again to be together, due to an inseparable chasm between them (Luke 16:26).
The biblical picture is that of judgment spurring believers on to righteous living. This preparedness is not simply a matter of intellectual knowledge but of believing response to God’s grace.
Paul applies the need for preparation to the church. He urges his readers to prepare for the appearance of Christ. Those who miss out do so because they continue to deceive themselves (and others) and practice evil (while justifying it even to maligning God's Word). These are eventually caught unawares.
And He said, 'The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." -Matthew 13:36-43 (NASB).
In Revelation 14:14–20 two harvests, grain and grapes, are depicted. In both cases God’s covenant people are forever separated from their enemies. The two groups are never again to be together, due to an inseparable chasm between them (Luke 16:26).
The biblical picture is that of judgment spurring believers on to righteous living. This preparedness is not simply a matter of intellectual knowledge but of believing response to God’s grace.
Paul applies the need for preparation to the church. He urges his readers to prepare for the appearance of Christ. Those who miss out do so because they continue to deceive themselves (and others) and practice evil (while justifying it even to maligning God's Word). These are eventually caught unawares.
Is this everyone's favorite topic?
Seems I hear an awful lot about:
Gay, he's gay, she's gay, this is gay, that's gay, I might be gay, are you gay?, I got gay friends, I don't have a problem with gays, I hate gays, gay parades, gay news, gay marriage, gay preachers, gay christians, born gay, gay shows, gay list of gay topics, oh my gayness,..
Seems I hear an awful lot about:
Gay, he's gay, she's gay, this is gay, that's gay, I might be gay, are you gay?, I got gay friends, I don't have a problem with gays, I hate gays, gay parades, gay news, gay marriage, gay preachers, gay christians, born gay, gay shows, gay list of gay topics, oh my gayness,..
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
The problem here is that homosexuals come to CC and malign scripture to justify their sin rather than repenting from their sin and admitting they struggle with a sex sin issue in their life.
If an adulterer were maligning scripture to justify adultery, they would elicit the same response because adultery is not condoned by God's Word. If a person having sex with animals or children were here maligning scripture to justify their sinful acts, they would elicit the same response because those sinful acts are not condoned by God's Word.
There's not a lot more to it than that. Hopefully, you are learning something from the discussions and using them to protect the integrity of God's Word in your own discussions with people that misrepresent scripture to justify their sinful life choices.
If an adulterer were maligning scripture to justify adultery, they would elicit the same response because adultery is not condoned by God's Word. If a person having sex with animals or children were here maligning scripture to justify their sinful acts, they would elicit the same response because those sinful acts are not condoned by God's Word.
There's not a lot more to it than that. Hopefully, you are learning something from the discussions and using them to protect the integrity of God's Word in your own discussions with people that misrepresent scripture to justify their sinful life choices.
