Gay couple to sue church over gay marriage opt-out

[AgeofKnowledge]

Yes, you are blundering badly. You just inferred that you respect dangerous cult leaders and their beliefs as long as they invoke the name of a god or God (e.g. the latter being the one supreme being creator and ruler of the universe) and directly stated that even if people deliberately do not mean god/God in their invocation, but something entirely different, you will project your own interpretation of god/God onto them as a proper noun (e.g "No matter what someone may believe I will respect their beliefs and address their God as a proper noun).

That's not just blundering on your part: that's nonsensical blundering.

The Bible asserts that genuine Christianity (not to be confused with heretical corruptions that have arisen from those rebelling against it) has essential doctrines which completely refutes your position.

Denominations denotes religious organizations whose congregations are united in their adherence to the denomination's beliefs and practices.

If these organizations adhere to the essentials of Christian epistemology, then they are genuinely Christian. This is true whether or not they align on non-essentials. If they do not align with the essentials of Christian epistemology, then they are not genuinely Christian. The holy gospel is an essential of Christianity.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul spells out what the holy gospel is and how important it is to embrace it. He reminds the Corinthians of the holy gospel he preached among them: “That Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.”

Paul explains what that means to them in Romans 6 and warns Christians to be wary of the many “false gospels” that are being offered to the unsuspecting: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8-9).

This doesn't square with your false assertions. There are eternal spiritual consequences to twisting the holy gospel to justify a life of wanton sexual immorality and Jesus and the apostles clearly condemn doing so in God's Word.

What you are doing is putting your opinion above that of God's as revealed in His Word. You are stating that your opinion is more important than what God has said (or even what people creating false doctrines to justify living ungodly lives themselves say about their own beliefs if it contradicts your opinion).

So it's no surprise here that I see you putting words in my mouth by stating that I didn't mean what I said. Yes, I meant it and I meant it because it's true.

An accurate historically true orthodox exegesis of God's Word is my authority, not your feeling and opinion that no one can ever tell another person what they are saying or doing is inaccurate and morally wrong.

You have fallen into the philosophical/logical error commonly known as relativism. In your case, a variant known as individual subjectivism. That's a logic/truth philosophical problem you need to fix with your thinking.

Until you come to an understanding of the truth, you will continue to blunder this badly to the detriment of yourself and others.

Here's one suggested point to begin: CHAPTER SEVEN "TRUTH - THE EPISTEMOLOGICAL PRECONDITION"

No matter what someone may believe I will respect their beliefs and address their God as a proper noun. There are many denominations in Christianity each of these denominations has formed God to what they think He is because they interpret things differently. So by using your logic, we can say the Christian God "is purely a construct/figment of their own imagination. Their theology is heretical, their lives immoral, and their state as one of deception." Now I don't personally believe that nor do I think you do, but my point is just because someone interprets or believes differently does not mean you have the right to go around saying their beliefs are wrong and immoral nor do they have that right. Now if you can have a civil conversation about their beliefs and yours then be my guest, but you can't have an I'm right, you're wrong attitude because then no one will want to hear you out.


No, I'm not making a big blunder. Heterosexual relationships can experience the same spiritual, psychological, and physical problems a homosexual relationship can because some heterosexual relationships are in the same gross sexual immorality. I think you're wrong in saying that "if they loved each other with God's love they would not want to engage in degrading sexual immoral acts with each other." A saved Christian can still be tempted to do something sinful. There can be that one fleeting moment where they think "Hey, I really want to do that." It would have been better to have said they would resist the temptation. You say they don't love with God's love and yet there is such a thing as a happy monogamous homosexual relationship. I would say Christian, but I'm not in the mood to pour any gas on the fire that's already burning. I don't think you, me, or anyone else are in any position to judge the type of love between two people.

What is loving with God's love? I want to say more about loving with God's love, but I'd like you to answer the question first, if you wouldn't mind.


I think the devil's goal is much larger than just the American sexual socio-societal standards. As I've said before in America it is unfair to use one's beliefs to restrict a group of people, who do not believe as you, from doing something. Now of course as I have also said this does not mean allowing extremes like murder, pedophilia, or bestiality. If two consenting adult males or females want to have a relationship or even get married then who are we to stand in the way? Don't tell me by allowing that it is going to ruin the sanctity of marriage. As Christians we are told not to divorce, that man can not separate what God has brought together and yet divorces happen on daily basis and some of those are Christians who have divorced.

 

[Daniel94]

Yes, you are blundering badly. You just inferred that you respect dangerous cult leaders and their beliefs as long as they invoke the name of a god or God (e.g. the latter being the one supreme being creator and ruler of the universe) and directly stated that even if people deliberately do not mean god/God in their invocation, but something entirely different, you will project your own interpretation of god/God onto them as a proper noun (e.g "No matter what someone may believe I will respect their beliefs and address their God as a proper noun).

That's not just blundering on your part: that's nonsensical blundering.

No I never said I respect them because they invoke the name of a God. I also respect atheists and their beliefs or rather their non-belief. It's more that I have an understanding that the world is not Christian and that everyone does not believe the same so I won't go around acting all high and mighty like I'm better than anyone else because I think I am believing the right way. I also won't go around throwing other peoples beliefs in the mud and disrespecting those beliefs. If they believe in God and they address their God as God then I will too. If they address their God as Allah then I will address their God as Allah. Buddha as Buddha. I am not projecting my own interpretation upon them. I will call their God as they do when I am talking of their God. Would you not want someone of another belief to address our God as God when they're talking about Him? To me it would be disrespectful for someone else to say god.

The Bible asserts that genuine Christianity (not to be confused with heretical corruptions that have arisen from those rebelling against it) has essential doctrines which completely refutes your position.

Where in the Bible does it say to go around and disrespect others beliefs? I think you're reading way too far into what I'm saying and you're twisting it to try make me look like some crazy person for wanting to respect others and their beliefs. I am absolutely sorry, but my parents raised me to respect others and their beliefs.

Denominations denotes religious organizations whose congregations are united in their adherence to the denomination's beliefs and practices.

If these organizations adhere to the essentials of Christian epistemology, then they are genuinely Christian. This is true whether or not they align on non-essentials. If they do not align with the essentials of Christian epistemology, then they are not genuinely Christian. The holy gospel is an essential of Christianity.

So then tell me what are non-essentials? Not being able to decide on how to get into Heaven? Is it not currently split whether one has to be baptized or not to enter Heaven? That sounds pretty major to me, but I guess whichever side you're on are the true Christians. Right? Cause I mean how could you be wrong?

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul spells out what the holy gospel is and how important it is to embrace it. He reminds the Corinthians of the holy gospel he preached among them: “That Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.”

Paul explains what that means to them in Romans 6 and warns Christians to be wary of the many “false gospels” that are being offered to the unsuspecting: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8-9).

This doesn't square with your false assertions. There are eternal spiritual consequences to twisting the holy gospel to justify a life of wanton sexual immorality and Jesus and the apostles clearly condemn doing so in God's Word.

Other than the fact that the world is not a Christian world, that there are many different beliefs out there, and that it is unfair to force ones own beliefs on another, what exactly have I asserted?

What you are doing is putting your opinion above that of God's as revealed in His Word. You are stating that your opinion is more important than what God has said (or even what people creating false doctrines to justify living ungodly lives themselves say about their own beliefs if it contradicts your opinion).

So because I think it unfair to force my beliefs on others I am putting my opinions above Gods?

So it's no surprise here that I see you putting words in my mouth by stating that I didn't mean what I said. Yes, I meant it and I meant it because it's true.

Wait. I'm confused, are you saying I put words in your mouth in my first paragraph? If that's the case then I think you majorly misread because I was saying I didn't THINK you meant all that about the CHRISTIAN GOD so if you do mean that about the Christian God, then I think you need to check yourself before saying I'm making a big blunder. Also, I said think meaning it was my opinion you didn't mean that about the Christian God.

An accurate historically true orthodox exegesis of God's Word is my authority, not your feeling and opinion that no one can ever tell another person what they are saying or doing is inaccurate and morally wrong.

I never said you couldn't tell someone what they're doing is inaccurate or morally wrong. I said if you can have a civil conversation with them, then by all means do, but by civil I mean you can't disrespect them or their beliefs if they disagree.

You have fallen into the philosophical/logical error commonly known as relativism. In your case, a variant known as individual subjectivism. That's a logic/truth philosophical problem you need to fix with your thinking.

I'm actually quite happy with the way I'm thinking. Though, while we're giving our diagnosis of one another, I think you need to come to the realization that the world does not believe as you and just as you would not want someone forcing their beliefs upon you, you should not force yours upon them.

Until you come to an understanding of the truth, you will continue to blunder this badly to the detriment of yourself and others.

What exactly do you mean by others? Last I checked people are capable of forming their own opinions, hence the reason we are so diverse in our thinking, but if you really would rather me not state what I think, then I can oblige.

You also never did answer my question as to what is loving with God's love. Although, this thread has took a serious detour from the original topic so if you'd rather you can send me a PM or start a new thread if you'd rather keep it public.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Don't take this personally Daniel, but you're wasting my time. I've got important issues to address and can't continue responding to your nonsensical ramblings. Au Revoir.

 

[Nautilus]

Don't take this personally Daniel, but you're wasting my time. I've got important issues to address and can't continue responding to your nonsensical ramblings. Au Revoir.

Sounds like wherever you get your rebuttals from ran out of answer...

 

[SonInMe]

my dad usta call it....pounding sand in a rathole

 

[Daniel94]

Don't take this personally Daniel, but you're wasting my time. I've got important issues to address and can't continue responding to your nonsensical ramblings. Au Revoir.

Nah, I don't take it personally, but if you ever have some free time and you'd like to return to this discussion and actually answer the questions I pose then don't hesitate to PM me.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Opinionated relativist rambling doesn't count as a material rebuttal and really is just a waste of time. He has the information to begin educating himself on the epistemological precondition to truth which is critical to understanding what is true and what is not. He may proceed on his own. I will respect him if he does. If he does that, we'll talk .

 

[Daniel94]

Opinionated relativist rambling doesn't count as a material rebuttal and really is just a waste of time. He has the information to begin educating himself on the epistemological precondition to truth which is critical to understanding what is true and what is not. He may proceed on his own. I will respect him if he does. If he does that, we'll talk .

And yet, what you're saying is not your opinion? It is your opinion that your position aligns with God's plan and your opinion that you're right. If you can not have a discussion with someone because they assert their opinion then how do you have a normal conversation with anyone? Also, I really don't see how stating the world is not Christian is an opinion when there are people who believe many different ways. I would think you wouldn't be so close-minded as to not accept that we don't live in a Christian world, but to each his own, I guess.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

No, it's not. That's the point. Obviously, not all truth claims are equal nor valid. False truth claims are false if they are actually mistaken. You've never studied why nor how to properly qualify what is and is not true. The reason why it matters is because of consequence. In spiritual matters, consequence can be eternal.

Truth is found in correspondence. Truth is what actually corresponds to its object (referent), whether this object is abstract or concrete. Truth is not what someone wants it to be, thinks it should be, believes it to be (if it is not), a result or application, etc... Truth is.

I'm trying to help you gain the competency to both understand truth and learn to qualify what is and is not true so that you won't be "like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind" of opinion and conjecture.

And yet, what you're saying is not your opinion? It is your opinion that your position aligns with God's plan and your opinion that you're right. If you can not have a discussion with someone because they assert their opinion then how do you have a normal conversation with anyone? Also, I really don't see how stating the world is not Christian is an opinion when there are people who believe many different ways. I would think you wouldn't be so close-minded as to not accept that we don't live in a Christian world, but to each his own, I guess.