"Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

Cino

Guest
#81
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

It is amazing how scholars believe their own theories are equal to the Bible.
Amen on this! Scholars think they know more than God when it comes to God's word. ALL people that I have known that have been scholars of the Bible and have gone to theology courses, etc are completely confused. Some of their interpretations are so far from the truth of the word of God, and I believe that is a real tool of Satan. Some scholars think they know all about God and Satan, yet they do not realize that they have been blinded by Satan.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#82
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

The verse does not say the women are apostles; it says they are outstanding among the apostles. You can be considered outstanding by your pastor and not be one. You are reading a thought into the text.
If it was said that I was outstanding among the pastors, what would be the first thing you would ask me? "You're a pastor?"
 
C

Cino

Guest
#83
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

That's cool. I have to say that your knowledge surpasses that of many of my fellow students -- and while they have a deep understanding of Scripture -- it just goes to show the knowledge one can attain (without formal schooling) when they have a zeal for God's Word! Thank you, Rachel.:)
We do NOT need formal schooling for salvation, so please don't think that you are above everyone else and have a better salvation than anyone else. God has said that EVEN A FOOL can understand His word and obtain salvation. People who are unlearned and uneducated can understand the word of God to be saved. God said ask for wisdom and He will give it, without the help of scholars and schools. The Bible says study to show thyself approved..... and that doesn't mean everyone has to go to a Bible college to study the word of God. I know many people who have never studied the Bible in schools but in their own homes and lives, and their knowledge is much greater than those who have studied, as the Holy Spirit reveals understanding and wisdom to them. Remember, that God said he would reveal his mysteries to the poor of the world and unlearned, not the kings and scholars. Remember where in Romans it says "professing to be wise, they became fools". Every person that I have ever talked to that went to Bible colleges and proclaim to be "scholars" have been so confused, that you can see that Satan is blinding them to not have the right understanding or faith of God's word. So, don't be so patronizing in telling people "their knowledge surpasses many of your students". Perhaps God has chosen to give more wisdom and understanding to the meek and humble of this world, who He reveals His mysteries, than to those who go to school.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#84
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

every since eve sinned in the beginning women has no authority over a man
 
Dec 11, 2011
69
5
0
#85
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

every since eve sinned in the beginning women has no authority over a man

Ohhhhh honey. Hahahaha
 
May 18, 2010
931
15
18
#86
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Are you not clear on what the bible has stated clearly?
 

Descyple

Senior Member
Jun 7, 2010
3,023
48
48
#87
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

every since eve sinned in the beginning women has no authority over a man
It's too bad Eve wasn't told to keep silent in the Garden.

Things would have worked out much differently if 1 Corinthians 14:34 was written in Eden - lol.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#88
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Ohhhhh honey. Hahahaha
i don't mean it in a harsh way but it is the truth, they were both even but because of what eve did women have no authority over a man but it doesn't mean women can discuss or share opinions on anything
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#89
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

i don't mean it in a harsh way but it is the truth, they were both even but because of what eve did women have no authority over a man but it doesn't mean women can discuss or share opinions on anything
says josh123, while backpedalling furiously!ROFL!:p
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#90
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

That's cool. I have to say that your knowledge surpasses that of many of my fellow students -- and while they have a deep understanding of Scripture -- it just goes to show the knowledge one can attain (without formal schooling) when they have a zeal for God's Word! Thank you, Rachel.:)
We do NOT need formal schooling for salvation, so please don't think that you are above everyone else and have a better salvation than anyone else. God has said that EVEN A FOOL can understand His word and obtain salvation. People who are unlearned and uneducated can understand the word of God to be saved. God said ask for wisdom and He will give it, without the help of scholars and schools. The Bible says study to show thyself approved..... and that doesn't mean everyone has to go to a Bible college to study the word of God. I know many people who have never studied the Bible in schools but in their own homes and lives, and their knowledge is much greater than those who have studied, as the Holy Spirit reveals understanding and wisdom to them. Remember, that God said he would reveal his mysteries to the poor of the world and unlearned, not the kings and scholars. Remember where in Romans it says "professing to be wise, they became fools". Every person that I have ever talked to that went to Bible colleges and proclaim to be "scholars" have been so confused, that you can see that Satan is blinding them to not have the right understanding or faith of God's word. So, don't be so patronizing in telling people "their knowledge surpasses many of your students". Perhaps God has chosen to give more wisdom and understanding to the meek and humble of this world, who He reveals His mysteries, than to those who go to school.
If you understood what he said, you'd know he paid her a high compliment.......& rightfully so :)
 
Dec 11, 2011
69
5
0
#91
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

You know what? The fact that you use the Bible as an excuse to make women second class citizens is...why? Why do I even have to explain this? What world are you living in where people--excuse me, HALF the population-- become under your foot and you really think thats okay-- an EARNED RIGHT? As if all women have done this to themselves because of one mistake since the beginning of time? Because "God" said so? Do you know how incredibly puffed up that is?

Well here is what I choose to believe: Adam sinned too, remember that? You aren't god's over women. Women are people too, and we have the same colored soul as you do: ugly. Its human, and Jesus came down to die not just for women but for your holiness's souls as well.

I respect people who deserve to be respected, who earn that respect. Man or woman. No man will tell me I don't have "authority" to do anything because of how I was born and not what my spiritual status is. Now you can call that wrong and quote your scriptures and make yourself feel better...but I wont be a part of that nonsense.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#92
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

says josh123, while backpedalling furiously!ROFL!:p
but it's the truth lol it's not meant to be something harsh it's just the truth... women don't have authority over a man, did you know women were not in the original creation? 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
[h=3]Genesis 2:21-22[/h]
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#93
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Woman was deceived unlike Adam, though they both sinned....

"For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint." 1 Timothy 2:13-15 NASB

Look I'm not being sexist here, it's just what I read and hear from the Word of God, if I am wrong, Lord correct me.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#94
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

You know what? The fact that you use the Bible as an excuse to make women second class citizens is...why? Why do I even have to explain this? What world are you living in where people--excuse me, HALF the population-- become under your foot and you really think thats okay-- an EARNED RIGHT? As if all women have done this to themselves because of one mistake since the beginning of time? Because "God" said so? Do you know how incredibly puffed up that is?

Well here is what I choose to believe: Adam sinned too, remember that? You aren't god's over women. Women are people too, and we have the same colored soul as you do: ugly. Its human, and Jesus came down to die not just for women but for your holiness's souls as well.

I respect people who deserve to be respected, who earn that respect. Man or woman. No man will tell me I don't have "authority" to do anything because of how I was born and not what my spiritual status is. Now you can call that wrong and quote your scriptures and make yourself feel better...but I wont be a part of that nonsense.
i think you misinterpet what i was trying to say... i was trying to imply that women have no authority To speak authority over a man... a man is the head of a house hold and it doesn't mean that women is any lesser than a man.. but that's just how it is 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. [h=3]1 Corinthians 11:3[/h]
 
May 18, 2010
931
15
18
#95
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

You know what? The fact that you use the Bible as an excuse to make women second class citizens is...why? Why do I even have to explain this? What world are you living in where people--excuse me, HALF the population-- become under your foot and you really think thats okay-- an EARNED RIGHT? As if all women have done this to themselves because of one mistake since the beginning of time? Because "God" said so? Do you know how incredibly puffed up that is?

Well here is what I choose to believe: Adam sinned too, remember that? You aren't god's over women. Women are people too, and we have the same colored soul as you do: ugly. Its human, and Jesus came down to die not just for women but for your holiness's souls as well.

I respect people who deserve to be respected, who earn that respect. Man or woman. No man will tell me I don't have "authority" to do anything because of how I was born and not what my spiritual status is. Now you can call that wrong and quote your scriptures and make yourself feel better...but I wont be a part of that nonsense.
I am not of this world,.. it's a simple role of submission which you seem to rebel, like many of the feminists who go around exalting themselves above God's word and role of His creation, what they do would be like some men who think themselves higher than the Christ that bought them and created them. The female was the help met for the male, out of the rib of man was she created, it means the head of a female is a male, it doesn't mean you're considered the scum of the earth. Understand.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#96
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

it's no need to be discouraged or upset in anyway.. we are all one in christ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [h=3]Galatians 3:28[/h]
 
Feb 7, 2013
1,276
21
0
#97
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Peace be with you sir Administrator, to add in assistants to you, sent by the LORD, regarding the Holy Scripture in the Holy Bible, about speaking in tongues and to that you have shared about them which is the truth. That there is also mentioned that without an interpreter, they are to remain silent, to speak between themselves and GOD. Another is, with an interpreter there may be only two or three may speak in tongues and the rest take turns. And Prophesy is the best gift that benefits others that leads people to repentance (men make peace with GOD).
Everything must be conducted in order, as how the HOLY SPIRIT's inspired and it is written in simple for just and fair reference, for justifications in the church among believers.
This because as it is written; "Our GOD is a GOD of order and not disorder." (disorder brings divisions)

As it is also written; 'There is only one Body of CHRIST and CHRIST is the head and GOD is CHRIST's Head.' 'No one is to add or twist or take away all that is written in the Holy Bible for the church. Whatever version they may consist to be but they are close to each other. In fact, i believe GOD has made them simple for the educated and the uneducated. Though they that are written, may seem difficult to practice but there is no lack in their teachings of conducting ourselves in GOD's love towards one another and also be a witness of that same love towards outsiders.'
It is written for our alert; "Even satan disguises himself as an angel of light and it is not surprising that his servants disguises themselves as agents of righteousness." (Through and with their master, they also represent themselves as servants of the Kingdom of GOD, by the will of GOD)
'satan has his ways and he has his agents to make contradictions, using even to the simple written Words in the truth, continuing in their actions and speech to devour someone. This is their deceiving tactics to distract the minds of faithful believers to reject and compromise turning away from the New Covenant truth to sensuality, imagination, immoral freedom and divisions among members.
'This is why today the LORD through the HOLY SPIRIT is not wrong to say that the Body of CHRIST is perishing and this is only visible to the spiritual eyes and ears conform of the New Covenant teaching and instructions. And this also reflects to the Old Covenant, seem faithful one's failures. Their leaders have chosen spiritually weak and parallysed limbs as offerings attached to a body, assumingly called as the Body of CHRIST, to serve and witnessing to others about the Kingdom of GOD. This is Lawlessness!'
The 'Law of the HOLY SPIRIT' (Romans 8;2), that sets us free, the teachings of JESUS and the instructions of the chosen Apostles for the churches in building and edifying them and completing the New Covenant, defeats liars who speak and practices otherwise.'
As is written clearly; "You will know a tree by it's fruits."
Then one may ask; 'what about those who are humble. Don't they bear good fruit?'
As it is also written; "They act themselves humble but they have no control over their desires."
i am just an unworthy servant just doing my duty not judge but chosen to serve, in order to remind and to stir up sleeping memories of Good GOD's New Covenant, made with us through the pouring of 'innocent bloods' until today which HE always remembers and treasures above all things till the end.
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless the Administrator and his family and to the chosen ones in this forum to fight a good fight to get rid of the little yeast that rises a batch of dough. And may HE also keep them from being tempted and protect them from evil.
To I AM that I AM who is forever kind and faithful and is in CHRIST and reigns forever and ever, may HE accomplish these truth of the HOLY SPIRIT who griefs for the churches, in their hearts as justification the true rock for foundations, Amen.
 
Last edited:

RoboOp

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 4, 2008
1,419
674
113
#98
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NASB) [SUP]34 [/SUP]The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. [SUP]35 [/SUP]If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Speak - Greek Strong's Number: 2980Greek Word: λαλέω
Transliteration: laleō
Phonetic Pronunciation:
lal-eh'-o

Root: a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb
Cross Reference: TDNT - 4:69,505
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Say, Speak, Talk, Tell, Utter



Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
speak 244
say 15
tell 12
talk 11
preach 6
utter 4
miscellaneous translations 3
vr speak 1
[Total Count: 296]


a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. utter words :- preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare <G3004> (lego).


When we look at context of these two verses, we get the distinct impression that the women's talking was about asking questions during the service.
When we look at the context of the entire book of first Corinthians, we see that this church in particular had problems with abusing the gifts of the Spirit, and abusing their Christian liberty. As we look at the entirety of chapter 14, it is speaking about how prophecy should be properly used, decently and in order

Consider this: if a Jewish woman who under the old covenant couldn't say a word in the synagogue receives salvation where she is told she is free in Christ Jesus from the Law, and goes to a church where there are abuses in Christian liberty, what do you think will be the result? A committed Christian who is aware of their ignorance will desire to do all they can to learn. Since most of them couldn't read, the majority of their learning was during the service. Since the majority is new converts, we may be able to assume that the majority was also ignorant about the teachings of the new covenant. This could explain the abuses of the gifts as well as their Christian liberty.

If this speaking is about prophecy, which chapter 14 completely covers, it still has nothing to do with preaching and teaching, or using authority as a leader. None of the context of the chapter talks about preaching at all.

IMHO, this scripture is either speaking about asking questions during service, whether agitating the leader by constant interuption, or asking questions to those around them, stirring confusion.

Even today, you can walk into a church and within a few minutes into its service determine the general maturity level of the church due to its abuses and lack of order.
Hello brother Stephen

I hope you don't mind me engaging you a bit on this.

Would it be fair to say that your position is that this passage is restricting women only in the same way that men are restricted (if they're guilty of the same disorderly conduct), and ultimately, at least today, there is no distinction whatsoever between men and women speaking in the church, leading in the church, being a pastor, etc? Is it fair to say that according to you women are not "in submission" in the church any more than men -- no distinction. Your opinion on this passage is that it's saying women shouldn't "agitate the leader by constant interrruption". They can't agitate the leader but they can BE the leader, according to your position, and can even be the head pastor. And so, according to you, this passage only prohibits disorderly conduct, something that applies equally to men, if they're guilty of it (because of lack of education, or having previously been bottled up and then can't control themselves in an orderly church meeting, etc.)

So I'm just asking for a clear statement if I may. Is it the case that you believe that in today's church there should be no distinction whatsoever between men and women (as long as they're all educated and civilized) with regard to speaking in the church, teaching, leading, being the pastor, etc. And any passages about "being in submission" (in the church) actually would apply equally to men as well if men were guilty of the same disorder, lack of education, etiquette, etc. -- hence, in today's Western church with educated men and women there should be no distinction as to what they can do from the pulpit, leading, teaching the church, being the pastor, etc. Is this correct?

Of course you know I think there is a distinction, that the scripture teaches for women to "be in submission" in both the home and the church, in ways that do not apply equally to men (who can lead). But I just want to bring it out clearly if I may, because I think it's an important question and something to make clear on where we stand on this when discussing it. I mean this whole thing gets a little foggy with all the discussion and it's sometimes hard to see what people really mean.

And honestly, I don't know how we can get from "let the women be in subjection" (in 1 Cor 14) and "let the women learn in silence in entire subjection" (1 Tim 2) to "let the women lead and be the head pastor of the church" (and let men be in subjection to them).

Because then we've turned those passages upside down to where not only are women not in subjection but actually the men are then in subjection to a women or women who are leading/pastoring the church.

P.S. put nicely, I just think men need to lovingly lead, both in the home and the church, and women should be happy to have men being the spiritual leaders both in the home and the church, and should appreciate men leading the family and the church, taking on the responsibility to lead those under their care to follow Jesus -- that's a wonderful thing :)
 
Last edited:
K

Kerry

Guest
#99
Re: &quot;Women keep silent in the churches&quot;: Has that ceased or is it still for today?

What about donkeys, if you believe the bible, God spoke through one. Should we chastise God for using a donkey? God told Abraham to listen to his wife and put Ishmael out. Should we criticize Him for that. God speaks through whom and what He chooses. Will any one confront Him for that. I know I won't.

God chose a drunk to write amazing grace and how sweet is that sound!!!!!
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
Re: &quot;Women keep silent in the churches&quot;: Has that ceased or is it still for today?

i don't mean it in a harsh way but it is the truth....
Dream On! :p

I've had some real good lol's from reading this thread! :)