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C
before the beginning = eternity (no beginning or ending)
At (position: in, on, at) the beginning (before the Creation/time) was the Word....He would have had to have been there before He created. Right? Just as we would have to be at a location before we can perform an act.
We already know that He, the Word, created all things. So, in order for Him to have created, He would have had to existed before the beginning (Creation/time).
At (position: in, on, at) the beginning (before the Creation/time) was the Word....He would have had to have been there before He created. Right? Just as we would have to be at a location before we can perform an act.
We already know that He, the Word, created all things. So, in order for Him to have created, He would have had to existed before the beginning (Creation/time).
H
josh, If you would usa a "," , your sentence could be understood. you said,"Difference between God and Jesus is God had no beginning but Jesus had one " Please be more careful. The sentence should read, (The difference between God and Jesus is, God had no beginning, but Jesus had a beginning.) We all agree with you ,yes, Jesus had a beginning in Mary's womb. That is why John writes in his first epistle "that which was FROM the beginning" what beginning is John referring to: the womb of Mary as the beginning of the person of Jesus. then John goes on to talk of Jesus as "that eternal life, which was WITH the Father and was manifested to us-" "made flesh" jJh. 1:14 Soo. please stop twisting the words of the Bible. Love to all, Hoffco
C
Josh,
The Word was at the beginning.
The Word did not become Jesus until He was sent, way after His act of Creation.
Would you agree with John 1 in saying that the Word created all things and by His power, upholds all things?
If it was the Word, according to John 1, who took flesh upon Himself, then it was at that point that He took upon Himself the role of Son and was named by God as Jesus.
My point is, Jesus has a beginning because at a point in time God sent the Word on a mission and He took flesh upon Himself. So, indeed, the Son does have a beginning, but the Word is our very own Creator. In the beginning, God created....If you believe, which I know you do, that God is from eternity, also believe that Him as our Creator is also from eternity.
YESSSSSS, He was there at (in) the beginning and what did He did He do? Wasn't "the God" also there at the beginning? It says that the Word was ALONG SIDE the God. It further goes on to say that the Word was God. Still further, it says the Word took flesh upon Himself. We know Jesus was sent on a mission from the Father. If the Word is Jesus, as you say and have said correctly, then it cannot be concluded that just because the Word took flesh upon Himself that He ceased from being the Word who created all things. Indeed, God is our Creator.
The Word was at the beginning.
The Word did not become Jesus until He was sent, way after His act of Creation.
Would you agree with John 1 in saying that the Word created all things and by His power, upholds all things?
If it was the Word, according to John 1, who took flesh upon Himself, then it was at that point that He took upon Himself the role of Son and was named by God as Jesus.
My point is, Jesus has a beginning because at a point in time God sent the Word on a mission and He took flesh upon Himself. So, indeed, the Son does have a beginning, but the Word is our very own Creator. In the beginning, God created....If you believe, which I know you do, that God is from eternity, also believe that Him as our Creator is also from eternity.
YESSSSSS, He was there at (in) the beginning and what did He did He do? Wasn't "the God" also there at the beginning? It says that the Word was ALONG SIDE the God. It further goes on to say that the Word was God. Still further, it says the Word took flesh upon Himself. We know Jesus was sent on a mission from the Father. If the Word is Jesus, as you say and have said correctly, then it cannot be concluded that just because the Word took flesh upon Himself that He ceased from being the Word who created all things. Indeed, God is our Creator.
Hoffco
You seem like a reasonable person(I hope). Christ is the Son of God(of which we would agree). The fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Christ, He is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of Him. there is no other way to the Father but through the Son. Christ is higher than the angels. He died for our sins on the cross, and if we repent of our sin and ask him into our lives as Lord and Saviour, we are saved. I guess you would agree with all of that.
Now biblically speaking(not according to man) such a belief brings salvation.
I accept that officially all the Trinitarian ministers believe as you do. So will you tell me this. Why do they not demand such a belief from the pulpit for salvation? That is my question. And why doesn't the bible?
You seem like a reasonable person(I hope). Christ is the Son of God(of which we would agree). The fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Christ, He is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of Him. there is no other way to the Father but through the Son. Christ is higher than the angels. He died for our sins on the cross, and if we repent of our sin and ask him into our lives as Lord and Saviour, we are saved. I guess you would agree with all of that.
Now biblically speaking(not according to man) such a belief brings salvation.
I accept that officially all the Trinitarian ministers believe as you do. So will you tell me this. Why do they not demand such a belief from the pulpit for salvation? That is my question. And why doesn't the bible?
H
Why don't I get posts when they are posted? I got post #125 after I posted my post #1126 I don't understand this ,is it my PC that is holding back the posts or is it the sys. of cc.? which holds the posts when I am writing a post.? so I get the new posts after I make my post.???? Love to all, Hoffco
I see once again you didn't answer the questions(no surprise there)
There is no biblical demand to believe Christ is God Himself to be saved, and you cannot produce a verse to the contrary. Maybe that's one reason the ministers don't demand it either, the spiritually immature do on the internet though.
There is no biblical demand to believe Christ is God Himself to be saved, and you cannot produce a verse to the contrary. Maybe that's one reason the ministers don't demand it either, the spiritually immature do on the internet though.
Lol
If anyone believes Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God
1John4:15
Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent John17:3
Where is your verse that contradicts that and states a person must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved?
I think people will understand your refusal to address the questions
If anyone believes Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God
1John4:15
Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent John17:3
Where is your verse that contradicts that and states a person must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved?
I think people will understand your refusal to address the questions
Hoffco
Do you stand in the pulpit and state a person must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved? It is not enough to simply believe he is the Son of God(what is stated on this website)
Maybe you do, but I have never heard that preached before, neither do I know anyone who has
And if you do preach it, bearing in mind to you this is a salvational issue, what is your opinion of ministers who won't plainly preach it?
Do you stand in the pulpit and state a person must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved? It is not enough to simply believe he is the Son of God(what is stated on this website)
Maybe you do, but I have never heard that preached before, neither do I know anyone who has
And if you do preach it, bearing in mind to you this is a salvational issue, what is your opinion of ministers who won't plainly preach it?
Hoffco
May I add this thought. There are a great many who go to Trinitarian churches who consider themselves fully fledged Trinitarians, but they solely see Christ as the Son of God, not God Himself, that is a fact. So if you only tell people they must believe in Trinity, that does not convey to a vast amount of people what to you eternal life hinges on believing, do you not see that?
May I add this thought. There are a great many who go to Trinitarian churches who consider themselves fully fledged Trinitarians, but they solely see Christ as the Son of God, not God Himself, that is a fact. So if you only tell people they must believe in Trinity, that does not convey to a vast amount of people what to you eternal life hinges on believing, do you not see that?
H
to cfultz3, I think you are right, I have to get my technician back again. But , lets answer Silas' question, why don't pastors teach the trinity for salvation.? I do. I have a fuller answer to this question ,but must of you won't like it. Here it is: pastors are so weak on truth today, that they have deceived themselves to believe the lie of "faith alone". so why would they tell the whole truth, they don't know the whole truth. they are liars. Love to all, Hoffco
J
Jesus beginning was at the beginning and yes he did create help create his beginning wasn't in mary's womb it was at the beginning of time, and you don't seem to understand what i'm talking about... "If the Word is Jesus, as you say and have said correctly, then it cannot be concluded that just because the Word took flesh upon Himself that He ceased from being the Word who created all things. Indeed, God is our Creator." God is the creator Jesus is the Word, they created man let us create Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
they both did the creating.
they both did the creating.
I don't your realise what your saying Josh, you have been taught a heresy and believe it. If God is not three persons in one substance, how can God be with God?
One thing that you don't seem to understand is Jesus' dual nature, He is both divine and Human, that's why he is God, and was born in the flesh, and that's why he was with God and is God and was born in the flesh to be the perfect human sacrifice without blemish. The sacrifice had to be a lamb with out blemish.. so that ruled out Human beings after adam..omly a perfect human could do... and Jesus Humbled himself and took on a human nature..in order to be that perfect sacrifice. He is both God and man - the 'God- man'.
One thing that you don't seem to understand is Jesus' dual nature, He is both divine and Human, that's why he is God, and was born in the flesh, and that's why he was with God and is God and was born in the flesh to be the perfect human sacrifice without blemish. The sacrifice had to be a lamb with out blemish.. so that ruled out Human beings after adam..omly a perfect human could do... and Jesus Humbled himself and took on a human nature..in order to be that perfect sacrifice. He is both God and man - the 'God- man'.