Difference between God and Jesus

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B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#81
#81
Okay here is the correct in John. Since people are abusing this verse.

My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.” - John 10:29-30 NASB

When Jesus said we are one He is meaning that they both share the title as God, but since the Son is not the Father, because the Father is greater than the Son, Jesus points out that they the same in divinity.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#82
#82
silas42 said:
I'm sorry Bryan, but as I keep telling you, the ministers don't preach your demands from the pulpit, and we all know they are obligated to preach plainly any salvational belief, I think I would go by them, not someone on the internet, who seems to have no opinion as to why they do not preach/demand what you demand here for salvation
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Why are you saying a demand from the pulpit? It's not a demand from men, but from God. If you don't want to believe Jesus is God, why are you having this conversation about the trinity?
 
S

silas42

Banned
#83
Aug 22, 2013
275
1
0
#83
Bryancampbell said:
Why are you saying a demand from the pulpit? It's not a demand from men, but from God. If you don't want to believe Jesus is God, why are you having this conversation about the trinity?
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Oh dear, so are the ministers not obligated to plainly preach from the pulpit what you say is a demand from God where salvation is concerned? But you seem unable to express an opinion as to those who do not state your demands for salvation from the pulpit, perhaps you are not too concerned what is preached outside of cyberspace
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#84
#84
josh123 said:
This is the argument.. bryan is trying to tell them there is 3 person 3 different persons and i'm doing is showing him that it is only God and Jesus and the holy spirit is the Spirit of God, There is no 3 it is God and Jesus God sent His holy spirit Into Jesus to be the fullness of God in man and i've prove this by the scriptures but no one accepts it that's why i keep telling people don't read the bible from a denominational point of view or a personal theory that you have or else you will never see the truth you will only see what the denomination says or what your theory is, it is written there in plain sight.. and i've even explained it perfectly with the scripture, just like i explained it perfectly with the scripture that the 10 commandments was for the jews in the first place not the gentiles and even show the scriptures to people but no one accepts it because they read the bible from a denomination point of view
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Will you then, young brother, give heed to me?
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#85
#85
I and the Father are one .

They are NOT 'two,' they are 'one.' one being. One being. One. :)

There is another verse in Scripture, or, two, or, three, or four, that, also says that the 'Holy Spirit,' too, is one with the Father and the Son. :)

So, all three, one. Different, oh, yes, they have differences of being, but they are ALL the same one true God.

This has to be, doesn't it? Jesus can not be another God, We will all confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

"My Lord said to My Lord." Isaiah tells us.

alayaarose pointed out Gen. 1:26, and, there is too, Isaiah verses that speak of this plurality of God as one when Jesus is mentioned too, the 'us,' word refers to Jesus and God, one. Not two. But, yes, One. :)

Genesis 1:26; Genesis 3:22; Genesis 11:7; Isaiah 6:8 (American Standard Version)


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lGenesis 1:26

American Standard Version (ASV)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


  • <<


American Standard Version (ASV) Copyright © 1901 by Public Domain



lGenesis 3:22

American Standard Version (ASV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever-



American Standard Version (ASV) Copyright © 1901 by





American Standard Version (ASV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.




American Standard Version (ASV) Copyright © 1901 by Public Domain




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Add parallelIsaiah 6:8

American Standard Version (ASV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then I said, Here am I; send me.




Isaiah 9:6

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to us a child (Jesus) is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
 
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B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#86
#86
Silas

No...?

I'm just having a really epic conversation with you guys, it's getting pretty intense for me I don't know about you lol. Anyways back on the subject, it's not a demand from the pulpit but from God. You must first accept the fact that Jesus is God before you accept His death. Simple as that. I never met a believer who said they are saved but they don't believe Jesus is God. Lol!!! Maybe in the internet lol!!!
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#87
#87
silas42 said:
Oh dear, so are the ministers not obligated to plainly preach from the pulpit what you say is a demand from God where salvation is concerned? But you seem unable to express an opinion as to those who do not state your demands for salvation from the pulpit, perhaps you are not too concerned what is preached outside of cyberspace
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You sound like that person who got banned because of his rant about ministers, pulpits, preaching, must.......yet he never realized that Jesus must have been God because He was the Word in the flesh. Shall we say the Word is not God the Creator?
 
S

silas42

Banned
#88
Aug 22, 2013
275
1
0
#88
Bryancampbell said:
Silas

No...?

I'm just having a really epic conversation with you guys, it's getting pretty intense for me I don't know about you lol. Anyways back on the subject, it's not a demand from the pulpit but from God. !
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I understand Bryan, you believe it's a demand from God, but the ministers are not obligated to preach it, I must admit, I do find that rather strange, I have always understood any minister to be obligated to plainly preach any salvational belief from the pulpit, but if you don't I accept that is your opinion, though I strenuously disagree with it
 
S

silas42

Banned
#89
Aug 22, 2013
275
1
0
#89
cfultz3 said:
You sound like that person who got banned because of his rant about ministers, pulpits, preaching, must.......yet he never realized that Jesus must have been God because He was the Word in the flesh. Shall we say the Word is not God the Creator?
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Well I am sure more than one person recognises the obvious. This is no rant, just the truth, the ministers do not make the demands a few people do on the internet for salvation, that's a fact, not a rant, a fact you can hardly deny
 
T

Trax

Guest
#90
#90
josh123 said:
read it carefully to see what it is saying, God is Eternal. but we notice, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god. and later down in the chapter we see that THE WORD was MADE FLESH. now Eternal means lasting or existing forever without end or beginning but we see that the word had a beginning and it was made flesh and was the only begotten son of the father now read this with an open mind not what you knew before or in some denomination it is right there. Jesus was the fullness of the godhead bodily. in christ dwelt God. The body of Jesus was the only tabernacle of God, the difference with God and Jesus is God had no beginning but Jesus had a beginning, there is no trinity how could the son be his own father? he is the word of god and we notice when he was baptized the spirit of God came down into him To dwell in him, he was the tabernacle of God
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Your whole arguement says God had a beginning.
Word was God
Word was WITH God
Word became flesh

And you said:
but we see that the word had a beginning
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Here is your arguement: Word was God and He had a beginning.
 
J

jb

Senior Member
#91
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#91
The prophetic Scriptures in the Old Testament distinctly taught that the Messiah Who was to be born of a virgin was to be 'God with us' ie., 'Immanuel, 'the mighty God,' Who's goings forth have been from of old even from Everlasting. Matt 1v23 (with Isaiah 7v14), Isaiah 9v6, Micah 5v2

The Jews in looking for their Messiah looked for and expected God Who became flesh!

And so, Paul writes in 1Tim 3v16 "God was manifest in the flesh", which is what John teaches in John 1v1-18, the Word Who was God (and Who in the beginning was also with God, the Father) became flesh!

Phil 2v5-11 also states that to become a man He first had to 'empty' (Greek, ekénoosen) Himself, so before the Incarnation he was in the form of God and after the Incarnation He was still God, as the OT prophecies state, ie. He was "God with us".

Any deviation from this truth, in saying that He was not true God or had a real humanity has always been looked upon by the Church not just heresy but destructive heresy. 1John 4v1-6...
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#92
#92
silas42 said:
Well I\ am sure more than one person recognises the obvious. This is no rant, just the truth, the ministers do not make the deamnds a few people do on the internet for salvation, that's a fact, not a rant, a fact you can hardly deny
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What then is the consequences of saying the Word, while in the flesh was named Jesus, is not God? It then would say that He was not the Creator, seeing that it says the Word created all things and by His power uphold ALL THINGS. It then would say that He was not there along side God at the beginning (before time), yet Scripture said He was. It then would say that He is not the Life and the Light. So you see, the Word never ceased in being of the Godhead, but took upon Himself the role of a Son. The same Word who received His eternal Godly throne back. The same Word, as the resurrected Jesus, who God told the angels to worship.

It is said that the Lord God is our Savior numerous time in the Old Testament. Jesus was that Savior in the flesh. To say that Jesus was not that same savior who was known in the Old Testament as Lord is to call God a liar.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#93
#93
We need to keep in mind, Jesus is the God/Man. This is why I don't understand why we ,who believe in the triunity
of God,(three persons with one nature,GOD). would say that Jesus has only one personality( person) yet have two natures, (God and man). How can Jesus be fully man if he didn't has a human personality,(person)? He would not be fully man ,if He didn't have a human personality. Sorry, to bring up a new wrinkle into this discussion. Soooo, back to the issue at hand: the trinity and the heresy of "oneness". The "oneness" people will not bow to the words of the Bible. They keep twisting and taking certian unclear statements in the Bible to the absolute max, and they destroy the Bible's clear teaching of the Godhead as trinity, triunity,one in three persons. God has left some "threads" untied in the Bible, call them loopholes, so people are lead astray. This is all in the purpose of God's over all plan, to deceive people who will not receive the truth, and be saved. This way God keeps people blinded so they don't see the truth and be saved. NOW, how much truth does one need to be saved? Obviously, not 100% ,or else , I would be the only one saved,LOL ! HEY ! Don't condemn me, Laugh with me ! OK ? OK ! We all have some flys in our ointment. As I have read most of this thread this morning, I see the problem quite clearly, People add to or substrate from the Words of God. The answer is simple, stop using the unclear verses to destroy the clear verses. Love to all, Hoffco
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#94
#94
silas42 said:
Well I am sure more than one person recognises the obvious. This is no rant, just the truth, the ministers do not make the demands a few people do on the internet for salvation, that's a fact, not a rant, a fact you can hardly deny
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My question remains:

Shall we say the Word is not God the Creator?
 
S

silas42

Banned
#95
Aug 22, 2013
275
1
0
#95
cfultz3 said:
What then is the consequences of saying the Word, while in the flesh was named Jesus, is not God? It then would say that He was not the Creator, seeing that it says the Word created all things and by His power uphold ALL THINGS. It then would say that He was not there along side God at the beginning (before time), yet Scripture said He was. It then would say that He is not the Life and the Light. So you see, the Word never ceased in being of the Godhead, but took upon Himself the role of a Son. The same Word who received His eternal Godly throne back. The same Word, as the resurrected Jesus, who God told the angels to worship.

It is said that the Lord God is our Savior numerous time in the Old Testament. Jesus was that Savior in the flesh. To say that Jesus was not that same savior who was known in the Old Testament Lord is to call God a liar.
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You seem to have a problem following the discussion, which is:
Must a person believe Christ is God Himself to be saved.

The bible does not demand it, neither do the ministers from their pulpits, or hardly any would. That's conclusive, not I am afraid to say the demands of a few spiritually immature people on the internet
 
J

josh123

Guest
#96
#96
Trax said:
Your whole arguement says God had a beginning.
Word was God
Word was WITH God
Word became flesh

And you said:


Here is your arguement: Word was God and He had a beginning.
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lol you clearly didn't read what i started in the beginning of my thread didn't you? i said... GOD is eternal which means no beginning or no end and i showed you the verse that proved that Jesus had a beginning
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#97
#97
josh123 said:
lol you clearly didn't read what i started in the beginning of my thread didn't you? i said... GOD is eternal which means no beginning or no end and i showed you the verse that proved that Jesus had a beginning
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So you are limited Jesus, by flesh or existence?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#98
#98
silas42 said:
You seem to have a problem following the discussion, which is:
Must a person believe Christ is God Himself to be saved.

The bible does not demand it, neither do the ministers from their pulpits, or hardly any would. That's conclusive, not I am afraid to say the demands of a few spiritually immature people on the internet
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And as I asked of you, shall we say that the Word is not God the Creator? Shall we say God is not our Savior? Shall we say that Jesus was not that Savior?
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#100
#100
silas42 said:
You seem to have a problem following the discussion, which is:
Must a person believe Christ is God Himself to be saved.

The bible does not demand it, neither do the ministers from their pulpits, or hardly any would. That's conclusive, not I am afraid to say the demands of a few spiritually immature people on the internet
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New testament it's all over. And like cfultz said. You are denying what Savior has to imply.
 
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