Difference between God and Jesus

[phil36]

Im not in the business of answering for others unless i feel that the person s being picked on,

so can you answer my last post because this has gone on long enough over 3 threads when i very first asked you.

REMEMBER i did say you have your ways i have mine i left it there, That was the end of it for me, so ok its started again in this thread for one reason and another so can you finaly put it to bed please,

If you don't want to debate DONT join in?

And that's 2 accusations now
1) that was bullying silas, even though silas disagrees with you??? strange

2) that I am using 2 accounts - that's very easy to prove by IP adresss' I am sure Robo op can conclude this matter.

So please report me Quickfire

That's is the last word to you!

 

[silas42]

You are trying to weigh all other texts against this text and you cannot do that. The other scriptures are just as inspired as this text is yet, you ignore them outright. I do not deny the truth of Jn. 17:3 yet, you deny the truth of all the other inspired texts. You are trying to pit one scripture against the other. The scriptures are not in conflict with one another. What is in conflict is your understanding and treatment of them. And NO you did not respond to the John 1 text. You chose not to even answer the statements at the bottom of the post which leads me to believe you did not even read the post.

I am sure you realise the discussion I have been taking part in is who a person must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life, despite my repeated requests you have produced not one plain scripture backing up your demands, not one. I however have given you very plain scripture, I can give you a host of them if you want

Trinitarian ministers freely admit there is not pone plain verse of scripture that states Christ is God Himself in the whole bible, as do many Trinitarians also, let alone there being a verse that demands such a belief to inherit eternal life. All you have is your fallible reasoning that contradicts the plain word


True knowledge is not an academic exercise, but with humility bowing the knee and asking to be led by the Holy Spirit into truth, something I c an say with assurity you have not done. For the Holy Spirit would lead NO ONE to believe another would stand condemned/cannot be saved for believing what Christ plainly stated when he walked this earth, absolutely impossible

 

[oldhermit]

I am sure you realise the discussion I have been taking part in is who a person must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life,

I have given you John 1. The text is very plain and lays down what one must believe about Jesus to be called a child of God. Why will you not respond to that rather than just ignoring claiming I did not produce a text that teaches this?

 

[silas42]

I have given you John 1. The text is very plain and lays down what one must believe about Jesus to be called a child of God. Why will you not respond to that rather than just ignoring claiming I did not produce a text that teaches this?

Don't cut off most of the text, I have reposted it all below

I have given you the plain text of scripture directly relating to what a person must believe to inherit eternal life where Christ and his Father are concerned. I would like you to do me the same courtesy
Please produce an equally plain verse of scripture that states a person must believe Christ is God Himself to inherit eternal life. Your personal theological thinking means nothing to me, and I will repeat why.

True knowledge is not an academic exercise, but with humility bowing the knee and asking to be led by the Holy Spirit into truth, something I c an say with assurity you have not done. For the Holy Spirit would lead NO ONE to believe another would stand condemned/cannot be saved for believing what Christ plainly stated when he walked this earth, absolutely impossible
And
Trinitarian ministers freely admit there is not pone plain verse of scripture that states Christ is God Himself in the whole bible, as do many Trinitarians also, let alone there being a verse that demands such a belief to inherit eternal life. All you have is your fallible reasoning that contradicts the plain word

 

[oldhermit]

Don't cut off most of the text, I have reposted it all below

I have given you the plain text of scripture directly relating to what a person must believe to inherit eternal life where Christ and his Father are concerned. I would like you to do me the same courtesy
Please produce an equally plain verse of scripture that states a person must believe Christ is God Himself to inherit eternal life. Your personal theological thinking means nothing to me, and I will repeat why.

I have told you very plainly that I believe the truth of John 17:3. I do not know how much plainer I can make that.

True knowledge is not an academic exercise, but with humility bowing the knee and asking to be led by the Holy Spirit into truth, something I c an say with assurity you have not done. For the Holy Spirit would lead NO ONE to believe another would stand condemned/cannot be saved for believing what Christ plainly stated when he walked this earth, absolutely impossible

Truth is the product of the grammatical structure of the revealed text which you repeatedly ignore. We are not inspired learners. We learn truth not from inspiration personally given but, by studying the Word of God that has already been given. If you are claiming some special revelation from the Holy Spirit that enables you to determine truth then, what you are getting in NOT from the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit will not contradict what he has already given in scripture.

Trinitarian ministers freely admit there is not pone plain verse of scripture that states Christ is God Himself in the whole bible, as do many Trinitarians also, let alone there being a verse that demands such a belief to inherit eternal life. All you have is your fallible reasoning that contradicts the plain word.

Yes there is but you apparently do not have the gumption to address it. BTW I am not a Trin.

 

[GreenNnice]

You need to read with spiritual eyes, not the natural/academic eyes.
The Father loves the Son, he is the only truly begotten of the Father. The Father wants honour and praise and glory for His Son, because He loves Him. But the Father is to be glorified as the one true God. If you want to discuss further pre the biblical begining I suggest you find someone who is an authority on that time, I am not. And if you believe God is showing you to ignore the plain text on the altar of human reasoning, I believe you are sadly mistaken
But as you want to discuss John 17:

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one AS we are one—verse 22

So how can we be one? For we can be one as Father and Son are one?
Only in the Holy Spirit, there is no other way. But though we can be one in the Spirit we remain two individual people, you cannot be me and I cannot be you.
That they may be one, AS we are one

My suggestion would be Greennice, instead of constantly proclaiming how you have moved on from where the lowly are now, and know far more than they, it it may be better for you to move back to simple childlike faith, and accept the plain scripture rather than seek to overturn it with acadamia/theology, then you may not want to promote yourself so much, and show a little more humility.

Now please don't distract me anymore. I am here discussing salvational belief, that's it. I have courteously responded to your question this time, but as you appear(from what you have written) not to demand a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved, we have no more to discuss concerning what I am debating

Phil, I implore you to really read what you just said, pray to God, for being 'in the Spirit,' and, ask Him if what you said there about God wanting to give glory to His only begotten Son the true meaning of the verses you wanted identified and which you said yourself, 'support your belief.'

No, no, no, brothersile, those verses , John 17:1-5, speak of, without a doubt, Jesus is ASKING God to glorify Him.
Can this be ? This cannot be !

YOu say you want salvational Scripture for why Jesus must be God or you are going to hell, and, I will go there with you on that too, but, LOL, I am STILL answering your other question. It's like you posted it and now you are saying that your own verse you wanted response to doesn't matter anymore.

In fact, the one true God is speaking in you right now to not run away from this conversation but are you going to listen

All glory to God, that is what Scripture says, so, when Jesus is asking the Father (God) to glorify Him(Jesus) then this is none other than our being shown that Jesus is no less than THE ONE TRUE GOD.

This is the Scripture that you use to support your belief, and, in fact, it's God showing you that your support does not base itself on solid ground and is not with an understanding of the 'foundation of Christ,' which you can read in 1 Corinthians 3. We are to build our foundation on Christ. And, then you go to JOhn 17:5 and Christ is mentioned as here 'before the world began.' There are paralllel supporting Scriptures that say that Jesus was chosen before the 'foundation of the world.' So, Jesus IS the foundation that was around IN THE BEGINNING, and what does Scripture say? "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth......"

In the beginning, God
In the beginning, God (not gods)

Therefore, God AND Jesus were around and Both are the one true 'God' in the beginning. They are BOTH referrred as around before the foundation of the Earth began, so, they are both God.


And, if it was 'gods,' which it is not, then Scripture would plainly say. Worship the Lord Thy Gods with all your mind, body soul. But, that's NOT what Scripture says, is it? And, the next commandment tells us 'not to have any other gods before us.'

THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and Jesus is He who came down to Earth to show us how to be set free
The Helper that Jesus gave the disciples in John is none other than the ONE TRUE GOD, the same God, who's Spirit was moving over the waters right after......

In the beginning, God
In the beginning, God
In the beginning, God


There is NO mention in Scripture of Jesus in the beginning seperate from God, therefore, that should be plain Scripture that God ALONE in the beginning was Jesus, too, who is our Saviour, not a SEPERATE SAVIOUR from God, but God Himself saving us in MANIFESTED human form.

Anyway, I'm sorry if you don't want to discuss this. You posted this verse so I answered it and then I get a childlike scolding that I am not talking about the topic at hand. LOL, you brought up this topic, brothersile

The Lord leads. "...you follow Me." We are NOT told to follow God, are we here, we are told to follow Jesus. Peter is talking to Jesus about John getting to live while Peter and the rest will die a martyr's death. "Why not him (John), Lord, why does he get to stay?'

Jesus response: "If I will that he (John) remain, what is that to you, you follow Me."

Again, what was Jesus doing on Earth, doing that of the will of His Father. But this response here, in John 21:22 is AFTER Jesus died, He is NO LONGER HUMAN but GLORIFIED, in His glorified body. Jesus is no longer fully man and fully God after He dies on the cross. He is the ONE TRUE GOD only.

Listen again to straight Scripture here, brothersile, and, remember, Jesus said that His duty on Earth was to DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER. . So, here we have Jesus talking to Peter and asking Peter to DO MY WILL. Another example of, indeed, Jesus being the ONE TRUE GOD

Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?” 24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

Now that is the NIV version and the word 'want' might not mean 'will' to you , but...........

King James Bible
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

........ it should

 

[phil36]

Hi Greennice,

Who said that and who said what?

And please state which post number.

 

[GreenNnice]

Hi Greennice,

Who said that and who said what?

And please state which post number.

What are you speaking of, philly

 

[phil36]

What are you speaking of, philly

You have me confused above.. its starts of 'Phil' but I think that was what silas typed? you have to forgive this ole brain.

 

[XianCatalyst]

but tell me this everyone, god is eternal correct? which means he is without end or beginning, but look at this. 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
...........
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:1-14


read it carefully to see what it is saying, God is Eternal. but we notice, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god. and later down in the chapter we see that THE WORD was MADE FLESH. now Eternal means lasting or existing forever without end or beginning but we see that the word had a beginning and it was made flesh and was the only begotten son of the father now read this with an open mind not what you knew before or in some denomination it is right there. Jesus was the fullness of the godhead bodily. in christ dwelt God. The body of Jesus was the only tabernacle of God, the difference with God and Jesus is God had no beginning but Jesus had a beginning, there is no trinity how could the son be his own father? he is the word of god and we notice when he was baptized the spirit of God came down into him To dwell in him, he was the tabernacle of God

Time is a measure of matter. When we look to the stars and measure the distance between stars we have to measure from where it was at when it was because they are moving. Without matter to measure there is no time. Time isn't something measured in atoms for weight. It measures the atoms that weigh.

If God created the universe and thus the MATTER that time measures, then God existed before the creation to create it, right? Thus God existed before time. What would existence look like before time began? From that perception, the linear first this then that, and thus this method of time we witness and live in, or first I'm born, then I grow up, then I die, isn't how God sees the universe.

So in the beginning was the WORD.... the WORD is Christ before He was born of Mary and named Jesus. The Word was with God, and was God. The beginning there, is the beginning of OUR UNIVERSE, not of God. :| God was there before creation. The WORD was what it was created THROUGH, and so after it all began, we see the WORD with God, and note it WAS God.

Eternity is funny..... try this... ON a number line eternity looks like this...

<<<<<------1------0------1----->>>>>> So from zero eternity goes both ways. HOWEVER there is an eternity of numbers between 0 and 1 as well. 0.00000000000....1

Time is a matter of "segments of reality". God perceives the full of reality, all the segments being put together as well as their results at the same ...."no time".

 

[silas42]

Don't cut off most of the text, I have reposted it all below



I have told you very plainly that I believe the truth of John 17:3. I do not know how much plainer I can make that.

Yet at the same time you believe a person must accept Christ is THE ONE true God to be saved. Are you then oneness Pentecostal, for I imagine you must believe Christ is the Father if you accept the text



Truth is the product of the grammatical structure of the revealed text which you repeatedly ignore. We are not inspired learners. We learn truth not from inspiration personally given but, by studying the Word of God that has already been given. If you are claiming some special revelation from the Holy Spirit that enables you to determine truth then, what you are getting in NOT from the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit will not contradict what he has already given in scripture.

Really
So the truth eternal life hinges on believing is not plainly written in the bible. There is no plain scripture that states who a person must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life. I wonder how many other religions would believe that of their sacred books. So grammatical structure of the revealed text is what a person must understand to inherit eternal life, Ic am afraid this gets worse. I don't profess any special knowledge, I just believe what is simply stated, you do not



Yes there is but you apparently do not have the gumption to address it. BTW I am not a Trin.

No, there is no verse that plainly states a person must believe Christ is God Himself to inherit ewternal life, if there was you would have produced it already. However, the following are written in the bible that you state demands a person believes Christ is the one true God to be saved.

John 17:3(no need to repeat it, Christ plainly states who we must believe the Father tpo be to inherit eternal life

The Father is greater than I John 14:28
The Father is greater than all John 10:29
No one has seen God at anytime 1John4:12

If anyone believes Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God 1John 4:15

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life 1John5:13

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1Cor8:6


Then the end will come, when he(Christ) hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy to be destroyed is death. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For he “has put everything under his feet.”[SUP][c][/SUP] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]When he has done this, then the Son himself WILL BE MADE SUBJECT to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 1Cor15:24-28


Now I could go on, but all of those quotes come from the bible that you insists plainly states a person must believe Christ is the one true God to inherit eternal life

Jesus said
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

It appears little children would find it a rather confusing Gospel if you were right, which you obviously are not.

Now I've given you those quotes, you cannot give me even one can you that states the belief you say is nesseccary for salvation. It is sad to see so many on websites like these who have made a god out of studying theology and think themselves so learned through their endeavours. All they have done, with all that time and effort is to leave the simple truths of scripture far behind, and condemned the innocent, as the Pharisees did in Jesus day

 

[GreenNnice]

You have me confused above.. its starts of 'Phil' but I think that was what silas typed? you have to forgive this ole brain.

Oh, the Lord leads, but, yeah, my error. Thanks for pointing that out, brotherphilly .

I was addressing, brothersile, not you, philly, I smack-dabbed ya right in the first word, didn't I

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

People, please stop the equivocation. When you refer to GOD, specify exactly what you are referring to: either GOD himself (the one true GOD), or the nature of GOD (the godhead). Otherwise this discussion is just going to continue in its unending circles.

 

[GreenNnice]

No, there is no verse that plainly states a person must believe Christ is God Himself to inherit eternal life, if there was you would have produced it already. However, the following are written in the bible that you state demands a person believes Christ is the one true God to be saved.

John 17:3(no need to repeat it, Christ plainly states who we must believe the Father tpo be to inherit eternal life

The Father is greater than I John 14:28
The Father is greater than all John 10:29
No one has seen God at anytime 1John4:12

If anyone believes Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God 1John 4:15

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life 1John5:13

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1Cor8:6


Then the end will come, when he(Christ) hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy to be destroyed is death. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For he “has put everything under his feet.”[SUP][c][/SUP] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]When he has done this, then the Son himself WILL BE MADE SUBJECT to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 1Cor15:24-28


Now I could go on, but all of those quotes come from the bible that you insists plainly states a person must believe Christ is the one true God to inherit eternal life

Jesus said
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

It appears little children would find it a rather confusing Gospel if you were right, which you obviously are not.

Now I've given you those quotes, you cannot give me even one can you that states the belief you say is nesseccary for salvation. It is sad to see so many on websites like these who have made a god out of studying theology and think themselves so learned through their endeavours. All they have done, with all that time and effort is to leave the simple truths of scripture far behind, and condemned the innocent, as the Pharisees did in Jesus day

As soon as you answer my last post concerning Jesus the foundation of the world and God, too, and, speaking too of 'the will of the FAther' being what Jesus was following on Earth, then, the Lord leads, but I will look into an answer for you of this red, highlighted question you ask, as the Lord leads me, brothersile And, I'm telling you now, that you really don't want the answer to that, yeah, I don't know, maybe, you do, I'm far from perfect, but, yeah, I think, you SHOULD just want to, in the Spirit, realize that Jesus is God The Godhead IS God , THE one true God

 

[silas42]

Phil, I implore you to really read what you just said, pray to God, for being 'in the Spirit,' and, ask Him if what you said there about God wanting to give glory to His only begotten Son the true meaning of the verses you wanted identified and which you said yourself, 'support your belief.'

No, no, no, brothersile, those verses , John 17:1-5, speak of, without a doubt, Jesus is ASKING God to glorify Him.
Can this be ? This cannot be !

YOu say you want salvational Scripture for why Jesus must be God or you are going to hell, and, I will go there with you on that too, but, LOL, I am STILL answering your other question. It's like you posted it and now you are saying that your own verse you wanted response to doesn't matter anymore.

In fact, the one true God is speaking in you right now to not run away from this conversation but are you going to listen

All glory to God, that is what Scripture says, so, when Jesus is asking the Father (God) to glorify Him(Jesus) then this is none other than our being shown that Jesus is no less than THE ONE TRUE GOD.

This is the Scripture that you use to support your belief, and, in fact, it's God showing you that your support does not base itself on solid ground and is not with an understanding of the 'foundation of Christ,' which you can read in 1 Corinthians 3. We are to build our foundation on Christ. And, then you go to JOhn 17:5 and Christ is mentioned as here 'before the world began.' There are paralllel supporting Scriptures that say that Jesus was chosen before the 'foundation of the world.' So, Jesus IS the foundation that was around IN THE BEGINNING, and what does Scripture say? "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth......"

In the beginning, God
In the beginning, God (not gods)

Therefore, God AND Jesus were around and Both are the one true 'God' in the beginning. They are BOTH referrred as around before the foundation of the Earth began, so, they are both God.


And, if it was 'gods,' which it is not, then Scripture would plainly say. Worship the Lord Thy Gods with all your mind, body soul. But, that's NOT what Scripture says, is it? And, the next commandment tells us 'not to have any other gods before us.'

THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and Jesus is He who came down to Earth to show us how to be set free
The Helper that Jesus gave the disciples in John is none other than the ONE TRUE GOD, the same God, who's Spirit was moving over the waters right after......

In the beginning, God
In the beginning, God
In the beginning, God


There is NO mention in Scripture of Jesus in the beginning seperate from God, therefore, that should be plain Scripture that God ALONE in the beginning was Jesus, too, who is our Saviour, not a SEPERATE SAVIOUR from God, but God Himself saving us in MANIFESTED human form.

Anyway, I'm sorry if you don't want to discuss this. You posted this verse so I answered it and then I get a childlike scolding that I am not talking about the topic at hand. LOL, you brought up this topic, brothersile

The Lord leads. "...you follow Me." We are NOT told to follow God, are we here, we are told to follow Jesus. Peter is talking to Jesus about John getting to live while Peter and the rest will die a martyr's death. "Why not him (John), Lord, why does he get to stay?'

Jesus response: "If I will that he (John) remain, what is that to you, you follow Me."

Again, what was Jesus doing on Earth, doing that of the will of His Father. But this response here, in John 21:22 is AFTER Jesus died, He is NO LONGER HUMAN but GLORIFIED, in His glorified body. Jesus is no longer fully man and fully God after He dies on the cross. He is the ONE TRUE GOD only.

Listen again to straight Scripture here, brothersile, and, remember, Jesus said that His duty on Earth was to DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER. . So, here we have Jesus talking to Peter and asking Peter to DO MY WILL. Another example of, indeed, Jesus being the ONE TRUE GOD




Now that is the NIV version and the word 'want' might not mean 'will' to you , but...........





........ it should

GREEN NICE
I don't have time to join in multiple conversations at length, I would hope you would understand that, or to rehash with every new person who wants to join the debate all the arguments. So I'll just say this to you.

I live in the UK. The ministers don't stand in their pulpits and insist a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved. Slo if this subject to you is of vital importance that leaves you two options(if you are sincere let's see)
You've either got to accept they are right and it is not so important to stress, or you've got to say they don't do their jobs properly, and we are speaking of the ordained ministers. Hopefully you'll reply to that. You haven't got any plain verse of scripture that demands a person believes Christ is God Himself, not one.

So obviously Peter, James, John and Paul didn't think(if you are right that is) it important to plainly tell people of that core Christian belief, and make sure they understood it did they.

Now the thing is then, the Bible doesn't demand it, ordained ministers in Trinitarian churches don't demand it, so who does?
A few people on the internet(and even here its only a few..)

Now I have to ask myself. Who's right here?
Peter, James, John or Paul who certainly did not make plain a person must believe Christ is God, in fact as I have given the opposite is stated, the ministers in the churches who don't demand it either? or the few on the internet who seem to have made a god out of studying theology and in the process end up contradicting the plain text. And if I'm honest Green nice, I don't see much(if any) real humility from those who go around condemning/criticising the innocent. Frankly its just Pharisseeical

 

[phil36]

People, please stop the equivocation. When you refer to GOD, specify exactly what you are referring to: either GOD himself (the one true GOD), or the nature of GOD (the godhead). Otherwise this discussion is just going to continue in its unending circles.

I think you are confused because, if there is only one true God, then your saying Jesus is not the true God for he is only an expression of the nature.. rather than actually being the being?

You misunderstand the dual nature of Jesus

 

[GreenNnice]

GREEN NICE
I don't have time to join in multiple conversations at length, I would hope you would understand that, or to rehash with every new person who wants to join the debate all the arguments. So I'll just say this to you.

I live in the UK. The ministers don't stand in their pulpits and insist a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved. Slo if this subject to you is of vital importance that leaves you two options(if you are sincere let's see)
You've either got to accept they are right and it is not so important to stress, or you've got to say they don't do their jobs properly, and we are speaking of the ordained ministers. Hopefully you'll reply to that. You haven't got any plain verse of scripture that demands a person believes Christ is God Himself, not one.

So obviously Peter, James, John and Paul didn't think(if you are right that is) it important to plainly tell people of that belief, and make sure they understood it did they.

Now the thing is then, the Bible doesn't demand it, ordained ministers in Trinitarian churches don't demand it, so who does?
A few people on the internet(and even here its only a few..)

Now I have to ask myself. Who's right here?
Peter, James, John or Paul who certainly did not make plain a person must believe Christ is God, in fact as I have given the opposite is stated, the ministers in the churches who don't demand it either? or the few on the internet who seem to have made a god out of studying theology and in the process end up contradicting the plain text. And if I'm honest Green nice, I don't see much(if any) real humility from those who go around condemning/criticising the innocent. Frankly its just Pharisseeical

I've been where you are, philly. I've believed in the Godhead as you do, and, I've been shown that God is one , that God is One, with Jesus, with the Holy Spirit, not two, not three, but one. They are 'one.'

But, like I said, if you don't want to truthfully let His Spirit in you lead you to answers to my questions after I graciously answered your John 17:3 question that no one else was answering and just lambasting you over this very topic of salvation issue of Jesus is God, then, fine, you stick with that. The Lord leads
Blessings, brother.

Note: I do not demand that you believe that Jesus is God to be saved, I just want you to be saved, the Lord leads, He reveals all Truth to us, we are to follow Him , His will for our life. And, that said, I can see why cfultz, philly, olehermitHis, others are trying to get you to a tangible presence of understanding of who THE GODHEAD really is: God

 

[phil36]

I've been where you are, philly. I've believed in the Godhead as you do, and, I've been shown that God is one , that God is One, with Jesus, with the Holy Spirit, not two, not three, but one. They are 'one.'

But, like I said, if you don't want to truthfully let His Spirit in you lead you to answers to my questions after I graciously answered your John 17:3 question that no one else was answering and just lambasting you over this very topic of salvation issue of Jesus is God, then, fine, you stick with that. The Lord leads
Blessings, brother.

Note: I do not demand that you believe that Jesus is God to be saved, I just want you to be saved, the Lord leads, He reveals all Truth to us, we are to follow Him , His will for our life. And, that said, I can see why cfultz, oldhermit, others are trying to get you to a tangible presence of understanding of who THE GODHEAD really is: God

I take it you are addressing me Green?

 

[silas42]

I've been where you are, philly. I've believed in the Godhead as you do, and, I've been shown that God is one , that God is One, with Jesus, with the Holy Spirit, not two, not three, but one. They are 'one.'

But, like I said, if you don't want to truthfully let His Spirit in you lead you to answers to my questions after I graciously answered your John 17:3 question that no one else was answering and just lambasting you over this very topic of salvation issue of Jesus is God, then, fine, you stick with that. The Lord leads
Blessings, brother.

Note: I do not demand that you believe that Jesus is God to be saved, I just want you to be saved, the Lord leads, He reveals all Truth to us, we are to follow Him , His will for our life. And, that said, I can see why cfultz, oldhermit, others are trying to get you to a tangible presence of understanding of who THE GODHEAD really is: God

You haven't got the courage to see it have you.(as have none of the others)
It's only a very few of you on the internet who come up with all of this. The ordained ministers don't preach it from the ;pulpit, the bible doesn't demand it, so why do a few of you on here?
Simple
You've studied hard of your natural minds, and (despite words to the contrary) you think yourself very knowledgeable in the faith, and you've learnt greatly of spiritual truth, you are proud of what you think you know, the ministers are a wee bit more spiritually mature(thank goodness)
But I'll leave you to your man made wisdom, and feeling you are spiritually very wise(in humility of course)

 

[GreenNnice]

I take it you are addressing me Green?

LOL, I did it again !! Now, I'm mad !!!

Can you tell, philly


Sorry, bro, I just was saying 'philly' when I meant to say 'cheesesteak,' I mean, I meant to say, 'brothersile,' ah, the living with these green brains can be such a bother

The Lord leads. Philly, I include you with 'cfultz and olehermitHis' so I am not addressing you on this, unless you don't believe that Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are ALL the one true spirit of the living God who falls afresh on us all who believe and RECEIVE