"Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

[homwardbound]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Women need to shut up and let men lead!
No matter what happens, it is God's will for men(any kind), to lead women(any kind);.....ANYWHERE!
Brothers and sisters in Christ, why don't we see this!!!!

All men are to always lead all women any and everywhere.
- That is God's will.

Any woman who thinks she is called of God is mistaken if she ever leads a man anywhere!

Everyone should know that Eve was made for Adam....and that has nothing to do with marriage or ministry.....it has to do with her(all women) being made for him (all men).

God certainly made this clear concerning Deborah and Esther and David's great grandmother Ruth - (who did she think she was interposing into the genealogy of Christ!)

I speak as a fool.

B.T.W. - Mother Theresa!!!! Who did she think she was....helping all those infirmed.(She should have done it under a man's ministry!)

So Rick, what if the man is not of God, has chosen to be selfish, having the woman delight in anything he desires? And there are men of this that state they believe and are of God and are not
So she is to submit, no free will?

 

[homwardbound]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Ha!!! No, I didn't mean to. I was correcting something in the post and added a sentence and viola! - Two posts came out.
- (I'm just glad you didn't delete both)
- - Meant in humor.....all my posts are meant in fun unless there are a whole bunch of bible verses.

I have to say, rick, you might mean it in fun, and you have that option to come back with that, personally I do not find it humorous at all, but that is just me, thanks to let me know you are not serious and to not take you seriously.
I am not sure or at least in my Spirit I hear God is not pleased with this type of behavior, since you could be serious and say you are not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sanglina]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

I used to believe that Paul's command on the same was influenced by the Jewish cultural practices of yore days and hence was not applicable in today's context. However, two biblical facts that keet staring at me and finally convinced and convicted me to change my position regarding the OP were

1) Paul's reference to the Genesis account "For Adam was created first and then Eve" while addressing/speaking on the topic.

2) Jesus showed love and respect for women and also taught them the Truth in contrast to the practice of the Jewish culture that considered women as equivalent to a possession. Despite that, Jesus did not exalt women to a position of leadership over men which can be observed from His selection of 12 disciples. If it was gospel, then surely Jesus would have gone ahead and selected some women to be among His twelve.

 

[letti]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

LOL,many of us women are sensitive to this topic.

 

[Ariel82]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

What? So a woman who lives among the least to nurse them is married to the controller of Vatican City?
Sorry, ....I quite didn't see that.
- - Thanks for the correction.

- - - (I'm sure she enjoyed many freshly squeezed grape juices from diamond encrusted golden goblets with him.)
- - - - Called a corporation. She was as married to the Pope as the lowest gofer in microsoft is tied to Bill Gates.

Nuns are considered married to Jesus.... but i have a feeling you don't care so I'll spend my time typing up PTA stuff instead of trying to explain it.

I've heard both sides of the debate and I believe if a woman is doing what Jesus called her to do, she's under HIS authority and the phrase is more about how humans should not abjure Christ's authority than male or female gender roles.

I've seen error taught by males and females and good gospel from males and females. so I don't really see the point of the debate. you still have to use discernment no matter what is being said or taught.

Good pastors point to Christ.

False wolves pretending to be pastors point to themselves (they come in both male and female versions).

THe Bible calls the church the BRIDE, which sounds female to me.....

also a lot of the people who say women can't be pastors, say they can be evangelist, prophetess, etc.

I"m not sure I see the distinction that is being made.

 

[Angela53510]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

I used to believe that Paul's command on the same was influenced by the Jewish cultural practices of yore days and hence was not applicable in today's context. However, two biblical facts that keet staring at me and finally convinced and convicted me to change my position regarding the OP were

1) Paul's reference to the Genesis account "For Adam was created first and then Eve" while addressing/speaking on the topic.

2) Jesus showed love and respect for women and also taught them the Truth in contrast to the practice of the Jewish culture that considered women as equivalent to a possession. Despite that, Jesus did not exalt women to a position of leadership over men which can be observed from His selection of 12 disciples. If it was gospel, then surely Jesus would have gone ahead and selected some women to be among His twelve.

I do not think Jesus' goal was to liberate just women. He conformed to his culture, because to do otherwise would have taken away from the real purpose and plan of the incarnation - to set the captives free! And whom the Son sets free, is free indeed!

Jesus lived on this earth not to prove or confirm any Jewish traditions, like having men in power. He came instead to show us how to live, how to love, and how to take the gospel to "all" the world. He died so that we might ALL be set free from the power of sin.

I think it really does go back to the question of - When did "roles" start? In the Garden? Or after the Fall?

If God ordained roles in the Garden, then women should not be in leadership. However, I fail to find that roles existed anywhere in Genesis 2.

Genesis 3, after the Fall, makes it quite plain that part of the curse is that women would be "ruled" by their husbands and men in general. This is the true origin of roles!

Did Christ come to redeem us from the Fall, the curse of sin, or not?

If that was his purpose, then we should be working and upholding the need to integrate women back into a place of equality in all areas of Christian life. Women should go back to being that strong helper, that God placed in the Garden to help the man who was alone, and probably lonely. Women's "place" should be to help her mate by following God's calling, and all the church should be working towards the Kingdom of God and the second coming of Jesus Christ.

If Christ did not redeem us from sin and death, then by all means, continue to perpetuate the curse of the fall. Let women and women be stuck in roles for eternity!

Woman was the crown of creation. God knew that men would need a very different sort of person to bring in the reign of Christ. The very differences between men and women are the incredible strength that God planned from the beginning to make this world a Eden. We have sinned and betrayed that plan, in which men and women work together, exercise their gifts for the glory of God.

But we have a Saviour who loved both men and women enough to die on the cross. The fulfillment of Scripture will not occur till Jesus returns. But until that time, we need to be people who look to Christ, and his complete love for ALL the world, and that we as sinners saved by grace would recognize Christ as the only authority.

Men and women must work together to spread the good news of the risen God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and that means acknowledging NOT ancient Jewish traditions of having men in "authority" BUT rather that God has called all of us to different gifts and callings, and it is not up to men to stop the God's work by relegating women to remain under the curse of sin, and making them little more than wives of Pharisees, who obeyed the letter of the law, but not the Spirit of the God.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

If God ordained roles in the Garden, then women should not be in leadership. However, I fail to find that roles existed anywhere in Genesis 2.

If you're wanting verses about women's roles, there's no need to go to Genesis 2. Feminism is an ungodly rebellion. Have you tried submitting to God yet?

 

[RoboOp]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

LOL,many of us women are sensitive to this topic.

Well we've got men here (and everywhere) promoting the idea that there's absolutely no distinction whatsoever between men and women in the church, and that women can even be a pastor of a church in authority over their husbands and all the men (which is totally turning scripture upside down).

This is not an issue of men vs women. It's an issue of basic biblical principle that flies in the face of modern Western feminist society. There are just as many Christian women who hold to these basic principles of roles of men and women (in the home and in the church), as there are Christian men.

I think that actually most Christian women would never want to be a pastor in authority over men in the church, and most Christian women wouldn't want a church with a woman pastor -- they want a male pastor. I guess all those women are just "sexist" like me. Or maybe they're just Bible believers?

 

[resurrection33]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Well we've got men here (and everywhere) promoting the idea that there's absolutely no distinction whatsoever between men and women in the church, and that women can even be a pastor of a church in authority over their husbands and all the men (which is totally turning scripture upside down).

This is not an issue of men vs women. It's an issue of basic biblical principle that flies in the face of modern Western feminist society. There are just as many Christian women who hold to these basic principles of roles of men and women (in the home and in the church), as there are Christian men.

I think that actually most Christian women would never want to be a pastor in authority over men in the church, and most Christian women wouldn't want a church with a woman pastor -- they want a male pastor. I guess all those women are just "sexist" like me. Or maybe they're just Bible believers?

In my church, no one seems to have authority over anyone. We vote on things. Doesn't all authority rest with our Father in heaven?

 

[Angela53510]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

I am a chaplain and I work with many women chaplains in long term care. I will say that my husband is not under my care, so there is no conflict of me trying to teach him! Sadly, he is very unteachable even under men, but that is another thread!

I minister to men, preach to them, and teach them. I also teach women, and counsel and help those who are suffering. I don't think men really understand how great the need is for workers in the field of caring for the disabled and elderly. In the institution I work for, (Lutheran) they are installing 5 permanent chaplains this month. Only one is a men, the other 4 are women. I am just a volunteer at the moment, but they are looking for a permanent place for me. I have never had anything but love and thankfulness to the people I work for and with. There is no usurping of authority, no coveting places over one another. In fact, we all submit to the real authority, which is God himself.

As for submitting to God, I will leave my walk with God in his hands. I do feel there will be punishment handed out to those men who have legalistically barred women whom God has gifted to be in leadership on Judgment Day. God is no respecter of persons, and those who continue to perpetuate these myths in the English texts about only men being in "authority" are going to find out how wrong they are.

PS. Interesting how the some of the men who are hierarchical in this forum refuse to answer my careful exegesis of the Greek, and keep promoting these ancient Jewish practices where the man must have authority or risk losing his position in the synagogue!

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

In my church, no one seems to have authority over anyone. We vote on things. Doesn't all authority rest with our Father in heaven?

He has decreed an order of authority.

God the head of Christ, Christ the head of man, man the head of woman. In that order.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

As for submitting to God, I will leave my walk with God in his hands. I do feel there will be punishment handed out to those men who have legalistically barred women whom God has gifted to be in leadership on Judgment Day. God is no respecter of persons, and those who continue to perpetuate these myths in the English texts about only men being in "authority" are going to find out how wrong they are.

You could try embracing what God has prepared for you instead of insisting on other worldly pursuits, such as ungodly feminism.

LAF Home

PS. Interesting how the some of the men who are hierarchical in this forum refuse to answer my careful exegesis of the Greek,

and keep promoting these ancient Jewish practices where the man must have authority or risk losing his position in the synagogue!

I've dealt with at least one of your claims about the Greek language before, and it was egregriously wrong. Fortunately for you, you seemed to ahve missed it. I would hope you wouldn't intentionally avoid it. That being said, you had made a claim that in the Greek language there was no distinction in greek vocabulary for the words male and female/husband and wife. To which I responded with biblestudytools information, strongs concordance that is demonstrating otherwise.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

In my church, no one seems to have authority over anyone. We vote on things. Doesn't all authority rest with our Father in heaven?

That's because you go to a UMC church last I recall. If that be the case, the UMC doesn't believe anything to begin with, so having authority is irrelevant to that mindset. Since they don't believe in authority, n' all.

 

[resurrection33]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

He has decreed an order of authority.

God the head of Christ, Christ the head of man, man the head of woman. In that order.

Jesus Christ commanded us to be just (Matt 23:23). That means we must love our neighbors as ourselves. That means we treat women as we would have them treat us.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Jesus Christ commanded us to be just (Matt 23:23). That means we must love our neighbors as ourselves. That means we treat women as we would have them treat us.

I suppose that's one way to divorce a bible verse from the bible.

Justice is defined by God, not your personal preferences.

 

[resurrection33]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

That's because you go to a UMC church last I recall. If that be the case, the UMC doesn't believe anything to begin with, so having authority is irrelevant to that mindset. Since they don't believe in authority, n' all.

I don't think the Lord wishes for churches to be run by dictators. There are some very good pastors out there; there are also some very bad ones. To better understand, read this:

[24] Another parable he put before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field;
[25] but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
[26] So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
[27] And the servants of the householder came and said to him, `Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?'
[28] He said to them, `An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, `Then do you want us to go and gather them?'
[29] But he said, `No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'" Matt 13:24-30 RSV

We could go on and on about why a church shouldn't be run by dictators, but that is topic for another time, perhaps.

 

[resurrection33]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

I suppose that's one way to divorce a bible verse from the bible.

Justice is defined by God, not your personal preferences.

You are not being just when you have one set of rules for men and another for women. It doesn't take a genius to understand that. Jesus told us to be just.

 

[phil36]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

You are not being just when you have one set of rules for men and another for women. It doesn't take a genius to understand that. Jesus told us to be just.

Hi Ress,

What is unjust about what God has decreed?

Yes, women are equal in status, yet differ in function/role. Their role is not to be head over man.

 

[Quickfire]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

the people are the church so i do not understand why this rule is it place, is this thread referring to all women in church not speaking or women being leaders in church, ?

1 peter 2 9-10 But you are the chosen race, the King's priests, the holy nation, God's own people, chosen to proclaim the wonderful acts of God, who called you out of darkness into his own marvelous light. [SUP]10 [/SUP]At one time you were not God's people, but now you are his people; at one time you did not know God's mercy, but now you have received his mercy.

The above scripture prove the people are the church,

 

[resurrection33]

Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?

Hi Ress,

What is unjust about what God has decreed?

Yes, women are equal in status, yet differ in function/role. Their role is not to be head over man.

The Lord decreed that we be just. That means the same rules apply to men and women. No person has the right to rule over any other person. The Lord rules over us all.