Do Dinosaur Fossils Validate the "Old Earth" Theory?

[posthuman]

You cannot have evening & morning if the earth is not already rotating upon its axis while orbiting an already formed sun.

this is a failure of language.

even according to 'big bang theory' there was a time when the universe was dark, and a time when the mean free path of a photon became long enough for "light" to "exist." -- if current understanding of the way the universe evolved after it's formation is more or less correct, then that same theory predicts that at a specific moment in 'time' the universe became 'transparent' with regard to photons. this means at one point, there was no light, and at the next point - "and there was light."

evening, morning. you got better words to express the idea to a pre-industrial civilization? even today i think if we start talking about Higgs fields and mean free energy, no large % of the world population is going to understand the discussion.

i think there is plenty of room for a universe as old as you want it to be in the Genesis account. i'm not going to argue with God in Glory if it turns out these are literal 24 hour periods either, but iirc the word "day" is not always referencing a 24 hour period in scripture.

 

[resurrection33]

No, he couldn't have done that..."God's invisible attributes are clearly seen by things which He has made" Romans 1:20, and "in which it is impossible for God to lie," Hebrews 6:10

He might have created a world that looked as if had been around for a long time, and had good reason doing that.

 

[SweetSavour]

Interesting subject.
[video=youtube;ZBAHXPW8Ulk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBAHXPW8Ulk[/video]

You did know this guy is an atheist, right? He's got another video on evidence for God.

RE: deBunked- There is No Evidence for God - YouTube

 

[GRA]

You cannot have evening & morning if the earth is not already rotating upon its axis while orbiting an already formed sun.

rotating - yes
orbiting - not required

a light source is needed ( not necessarily a 'sun' )

1 day => "one rotation"

 

[danschance]

Just forget about Hitler for a second. I've already posted this article once. It explains the
hypocrisy of Christianity and ties in the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
No True Scotsman: Embarrassing Christians are Still Christians. | Ask an Atheist

No True Scotsman - "This is one of the most common rationalizations religious folks toss out when one of their flock does something embarrassing or horrific."

"In short, you make a wide generalization about your own group — usually one you view as positive — and then when someone breaks that rule, you retroactively kick them out of your group. They just don’t count anymore."

The article has screenshots from Christians saying such things as "I say kill them all and let them see God"
"To all atheist die and go to hell haha If I could I'd shoot all of you in the head with a 12 gauge"
"Shoot them, at least we know where they're going, waste of oxygen"

Now you would say hey I'd never do that and those people aren't true Christians - hence the
No True Scotsman fallacy. It's all there in the article and explains it quite well.

I have hit the report button on you as your behavior here violates chat rules number two. Your frequent statements against Christianity are divisive and filled with intolerance. You have not considered my last post or understood it, because then you would drop this entire line of reasoning. Since you do not consider my arguments, I won't consider yours. I am done with you ramming your own beliefs down my throat.

Have a nice day.

 

[SweetSavour]

I have hit the report button on you as your behavior here violates chat rules number two. Your frequent statements against Christianity are divisive and filled with intolerance. You have not considered my last post or understood it, because then you would drop this entire line of reasoning. Since you do not consider my arguments, I won't consider yours. I am done with you ramming your own beliefs down my throat.

Have a nice day.

That's great but did you know you posted an atheist video?
Or is that news to you?

 

[Huckleberry]

Since you do not consider my arguments, I won't consider yours. I am done with you ramming your own beliefs down my throat.

Consider, brother, the spiteful hatred one would have to be filled with to come into this forum as a proud unbeliever, then continually mock, disparage and condescendingly lecture its inhabitants. Would you join AtheistChat.com in a rude yet futile attempt to teach them all how pitiful they are for rejecting God? I hardly think so. I joined this forum to fellowship with other believers. I for one, refuse to "debate" with these vile reprobates. They wouldn't believe the Truth if it exploded in their face.

 

[JHM]

In my opinion, the concept that the Earth is just over 6,000 years old is gravely in error. The Epic of Gilgamesh deals with an empire that supposedly lasted 36,000 years. Quote : "There is no rememberance of former times." There is also a quote somewhere in the Bible, that indicates that GOD killed the dinosaurs for man's sake.

 

[danschance]

That's great but did you know you posted an atheist video?
Or is that news to you?

I don't see how it matters. I do not care if it is atheist as the message was not religious. Again this is such a small issue that you had to make a post about it which really seems odd to me.

I enjoy humor, great stories, music that are from atheists, Christians and others. I happen to love Eddy Current's hoax of 911 truthers but hate his open mocking of Christianity, he is also an atheist. My favorite teacher of all time was an atheist and later a dear friend.

 

[SweetSavour]

I don't see how it matters. I do not care if it is atheist as the message was not religious. Again this is such a small issue that you had to make a post about it which really seems odd to me.

I enjoy humor, great stories, music that are from atheists, Christians and others. I happen to love Eddy Current's hoax of 911 truthers but hate his open mocking of Christianity, he is also an atheist. My favorite teacher of all time was an atheist and later a dear friend.

I was just trying to show you how the No True Scotsman fallacy applies. You got all hung up
about Hitler, not me. We can agree that Hitler was an evil man. Fair enough?

 

[danschance]

Consider, brother, the spiteful hatred one would have to be filled with to come into this forum as a proud unbeliever, then continually mock, disparage and condescendingly lecture its inhabitants. Would you join AtheistChat.com in a rude yet futile attempt to teach them all how pitiful they are for rejecting God? I hardly think so. I joined this forum to fellowship with other believers. I for one, refuse to "debate" with these vile reprobates. They wouldn't believe the Truth if it exploded in their face.

Yep. Few atheists come here. The ones who do enjoy talking to Christians as if they are religious zealots spreading their myopic gospel. Some who come here are a pleasure to chat with as they are respectful and then the other militant ones often get banned after a few weeks, as they should be.

 

[Bowman]

um, NO. you're still completely mis-interpreting the theory thinking that it in any way proves the constancy of c, displaying your ignorance of the matter thinking that it isn't based on that assumption, and don't understand that General Relativity and our understanding of gravity is seriously flawed according to observational evidence.

look, if all we can measure is small angles, all i am saying is that it's fine to approximate sin(x) = x for the sake of rough calculation. this in no way means that sin(x) = x for all x, and just because the calculations we carry out for small angles using this approximation 'work out' when we don't need to be especially accurate doesn't mean sin(x) = x even for small angles.

the predictive power of assuming c is constant is fine for building electronics. There are BIG AND OBVIOUS PROBLEMS when you start looking at phenomena on the scale of galaxies or on the scale of quarks.

GR is shown to be wrong on those scales.

did both my posts just go right over your head or something? it doesn't seem like you even read the sentence after the one you highlighted.

Life depends upon a constant speed of light.

If the speed had varied in the past, then life as we know it would not have existed.

 

[danschance]

I was just trying to show you how the No True Scotsman fallacy applies. You got all hung up
about Hitler, not me. We can agree that Hitler was an evil man. Fair enough?

Let me be detailed on how that does not apply to Hitler.

A bad Scotsman is still a true Scotsman until he claims to be of another country and produces a passport naming him as an American. Then he ceases to be a Scotsman.

Hitler did claim to be a Christian as he frequently spoke in public like he was a Christian. However, in private and later his published statements that he was against Christianity and was trying to rid Germany of all Christian influence. Once the Nazis were in power they ceased all support of Christianity and attempted to bring in a new religon where Hitler was the new messiah of Germany to stamp out Christianity.

[video=youtube;dbvp8wXPYYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbvp8wXPYYo[/video]

Hitler siad:

"The old beliefs will be brought back to honor again. The whole secret knowledge of nature of the divine and the demonic will be brought back. We will wash off the Christian veneer and bring out a religion peculiar to our race. "

This statement shows how Hitler declared his loyalty to a different religion other than Christianity. If I was born a Buddhist but for the last 20 years I converted to Christianity, You can no longer claim I am a Buddhist and be sane. Hitler made numerous explicit statements that showed he was against Christianity---which proves at some point he was no longer a Christian.

This is my last post on this subject to you as you are not willing to be intellectually honest.

 

[Bowman]

this is a failure of language.

even according to 'big bang theory' there was a time when the universe was dark, and a time when the mean free path of a photon became long enough for "light" to "exist." -- if current understanding of the way the universe evolved after it's formation is more or less correct, then that same theory predicts that at a specific moment in 'time' the universe became 'transparent' with regard to photons. this means at one point, there was no light, and at the next point - "and there was light."

evening, morning. you got better words to express the idea to a pre-industrial civilization? even today i think if we start talking about Higgs fields and mean free energy, no large % of the world population is going to understand the discussion.

i think there is plenty of room for a universe as old as you want it to be in the Genesis account. i'm not going to argue with God in Glory if it turns out these are literal 24 hour periods either, but iirc the word "day" is not always referencing a 24 hour period in scripture.

You are not bothering to study the Hebrew of Gen 1.1...

The compound Hebrew noun 'hashamayimve'et ha'aretz', 'heavens' (plural) and 'earth' (singular)with the definite articles and the conjunction, carries with it a distinct meaning.

Just as the English words 'under' and' statement' and 'dragon' and 'fly' put together as compound nouns take on specific meanings.

'Hashamayim ve'et ha'aretz' consistently refers to the totality of the physical universe: matter, energy,space, and time.



References:
Creation & Time
Waltke
pp. 20, 25-26


Creation & Blessing
Allen P. Ross
pp. 721, 725-726


Thus...even scripture informs the reader that our sun was created before creation 'day 1'.

Any mention of 'light' afterward is parenthetical.

 

[Bowman]

rotating - yes
orbiting - not required

a light source is needed ( not necessarily a 'sun' )

1 day => "one rotation"

Planets, including earth, form via accretion around an already formed sun.

Thus, when we see alternation of day and night in the narrative, we can safely conclude that the earth is already orbiting about its sun.

 

[APebbleThrown]

Let me be detailed on how that does not apply to Hitler.

A bad Scotsman is still a true Scotsman until he claims to be of another country and produces a passport naming him as an American. Then he ceases to be a Scotsman.

Hitler did claim to be a Christian as he frequently spoke in public like he was a Christian. However, in private and later his published statements that he was against Christianity and was trying to rid Germany of all Christian influence. Once the Nazis were in power they ceased all support of Christianity and attempted to bring in a new religon where Hitler was the new messiah of Germany to stamp out Christianity.

[video=youtube;dbvp8wXPYYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbvp8wXPYYo[/video]

Hitler siad:

"The old beliefs will be brought back to honor again. The whole secret knowledge of nature of the divine and the demonic will be brought back. We will wash off the Christian veneer and bring out a religion peculiar to our race. "

This statement shows how Hitler declared his loyalty to a different religion other than Christianity. If I was born a Buddhist but for the last 20 years I converted to Christianity, You can no longer claim I am a Buddhist and be sane. Hitler made numerous explicit statements that showed he was against Christianity---which proves at some point he was no longer a Christian.

This is my last post on this subject to you as you are not willing to be intellectually honest.

So all that talk about god was just a ploy? Hitlers army wore 'god on our side' on their belts.

Would that have been to make the soldiers feel they were doing something right?

Honest question

 

[SweetSavour]

Let me be detailed on how that does not apply to Hitler.

A bad Scotsman is still a true Scotsman until he claims to be of another country and produces a passport naming him as an American. Then he ceases to be a Scotsman.

Hitler did claim to be a Christian as he frequently spoke in public like he was a Christian. However, in private and later his published statements that he was against Christianity and was trying to rid Germany of all Christian influence. Once the Nazis were in power they ceased all support of Christianity and attempted to bring in a new religon where Hitler was the new messiah of Germany to stamp out Christianity.

[video=youtube;dbvp8wXPYYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbvp8wXPYYo[/video]

Hitler siad:

"The old beliefs will be brought back to honor again. The whole secret knowledge of nature of the divine and the demonic will be brought back. We will wash off the Christian veneer and bring out a religion peculiar to our race. "

This statement shows how Hitler declared his loyalty to a different religion other than Christianity. If I was born a Buddhist but for the last 20 years I converted to Christianity, You can no longer claim I am a Buddhist and be sane. Hitler made numerous explicit statements that showed he was against Christianity---which proves at some point he was no longer a Christian.

This is my last post on this subject to you as you are not willing to be intellectually honest.

I said forget about Hitler already!

Still doesn't change the fact that the Holocaust was carried out by
mainly Protestant Christian Nazis.

Now what do you think about my post #157? It seems you dodged that.

 

[CoooCaw]

i

You are not bothering to study the Hebrew of Gen 1.1...

The compound Hebrew noun 'hashamayimve'et ha'aretz', 'heavens' (plural) and 'earth' (singular)with the definite articles and the conjunction, carries with it a distinct meaning.

Just as the English words 'under' and' statement' and 'dragon' and 'fly' put together as compound nouns take on specific meanings.

'Hashamayim ve'et ha'aretz' consistently refers to the totality of the physical universe: matter, energy,space, and time.



References:
Creation & Time
Waltke
pp. 20, 25-26


Creation & Blessing
Allen P. Ross
pp. 721, 725-726


Thus...even scripture informs the reader that our sun was created before creation 'day 1'.

Any mention of 'light' afterward is parenthetical.

you DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURE UNDERSTANDABLY

it is not until THE END OF VERSE 1 that we have LIGHT ie electromagnetism and time begins
thus space matter electromagnetism time - the raw material for constructing the universe
no stars until day 4
no sun until day 4

 

[Bowman]

i

you DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURE UNDERSTANDABLY

it is not until THE END OF VERSE 1 that we have LIGHT ie electromagnetism and time begins
thus space matter electromagnetism time - the raw material for constructing the universe
no stars until day 4
no sun until day 4

That is both physically and scripturally impossible.

The vantage point for the Genesis narrative is from the surface of the earth as established in Gen 1.2.

'Day 4' has the stars and moon becoming visible from the vantage point of the earth's surface....and are described as markers for passage of time for advanced life forms.

You are incorrectly interpreting the Gen narrative from the cosmos...

 

[CoooCaw]

That is both physically and scripturally impossible.

The vantage point for the Genesis narrative is from the surface of the earth as established in Gen 1.2.

'Day 4' has the stars and moon becoming visible from the vantage point of the earth's surface....and are described as markers for passage of time for advanced life forms.

You are incorrectly interpreting the Gen narrative from the cosmos...

you are beholden to the concept that the earth gets created from the sun, thus the sun comes first

the laws of physics, specifically the law of conservation of angular momentum proves that the earth DID NOT come from our sun

so all the planet needed was a light source

during the millennium the primary source of light and heat for the earth WILL NOT be the sun