Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

[presidente]

context does determine it.

who did He send out?

YOU WEREN'T STANDING THERE WITH HIM.

EVER MET JESUS? DID HE APPEAR TO YOU?
DID HE FIND YOU FISHING AND CALL YOU?

were you there When He was Crucified? did you see Him resurrected?

no - so knock it off because this isn't even cute or funny. it's HERESY.

Can't you follow a line of argument? I'm not claiming I was there with Jesus. Btw, I feel like I'm getting old, but it's not a 'heresy' if I were that old.

The passage says that these lines will follow 'them that believe.' Continualism does not stand or fall on that passage in Mark 16. Cessationism does. But the Bible shows the Spirit empowered regular believers on the very frontiers of the Gospel, believers were weren't apostles, to do miracles, heal, etc. in I Corinthians 12. So we see this sort of thing that is consistent with a straightforward interpretation of Mark 16 without the squid tactic approach to Greek grammar.

anybody claiming direct ongoing REVELATION today is an heretic. period.

You use 'heretic' far to broadly, but it is you who oppose revelation who are in error.

Mark 11
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

prove this wrong! where's your inspired epistles?

More faulty reasoning. The Bible shows that not all prophecies and revelations are written down. I've posted on this numerous times. What did the seven thunders say? Quote from the book of Iddo the Seer for me, or tell me what the prophets who met Saul after his anointing said?

ok.
make sure you tell him the reason you want it is to claim you're a prophet or know prophets who are receiving revelation from God equal to the disciples and the 12.
and that you have the supernatural gift of languages poured out at Pentecost.

You want me to bias him up really good. Even if I said that, I don't think that would change his analysis of the Greek. I think he plans to write something up showing specific uses of the aorist in context. He doesn't care much for people who take the approach of arguing theology based on the 'rules' of grammar without looking at the usage in context, and much prefers the Rashi method which debunks such claims with actual statements from the language in question.

 

[zone]

Just notice the elaborate lengths people go to to argue for this idea. A lot of elaborate reasoning to contradict direct commands of scripture. Long arguments do not justify disobedience.

presidente,
i will plead with you once again, to obey scripture, and allow me to obey it:

1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

post your prophecies, or the prophecies or inspired utterances from prophets in your group.

i will test them, and you (or the prophets).

preferably, prophecies given in tongues.

until you do, please spare me the obedience stuff.

 

[zone]

Can't you follow a line of argument? I'm not claiming I was there with Jesus. Btw, I feel like I'm getting old, but it's not a 'heresy' if I were that old.

The passage says that these lines will follow 'them that believe.' Continualism does not stand or fall on that passage in Mark 16. Cessationism does. But the Bible shows the Spirit empowered regular believers on the very frontiers of the Gospel, believers were weren't apostles, to do miracles, heal, etc. in I Corinthians 12. So we see this sort of thing that is consistent with a straightforward interpretation of Mark 16 without the squid tactic approach to Greek grammar.

Apostles HAD to have seen Jesus - have you figured that out yet? YOU ARE MY WITNESSES

let me see you, or your co-prophets or prophets or apostles or anyone with the gift of languages do the supernatural works they did.

ANYTHING. post it. the signs that followed THEM are the same ones you need to be doing. not a little-like it. not stories.
not partial sometimes accurate prophecies. not slow maybe-healings. not Bonnke's lies about raising the dead.

video; newspaper headlines; medical reports; ANYTHING.
and i WILL verify it. i need to be able to TEST you.....you talk about obedience. let's get started.

if it's not the same quality and purpose we read of in the Bible - you're doing something else.

they miraculously spoke LANGUAGES. get it? let's see you do it! anyone in your group

you can quote Corinthians til the cows come home (the most disorderly and sinful church paul dealt with) - let's see the proof.

you can't and won't ever provide it, because you do not have the supernatural gifts they had.
i don't believe ANY of your claims.

but go ahead and convince me.

 

[presidente]

Apostles HAD to have seen Jesus - have you figured that out yet? YOU ARE MY WITNESSES

let me see you, or your co-prophets or prophets or apostles or anyone with the gift of languages do the supernatural works they did.

When did I claim to be an apostle or prophet. I say I believe what the Bible says about it. That's what I've claimed as far as that is concerned.

ANYTHING. post it. the signs that followed THEM are the same ones you need to be doing. not a little-like it. not stories.
not partial sometimes accurate prophecies. not slow maybe-healings. not Bonnke's lies about raising the dead.

video; newspaper headlines; medical reports; ANYTHING.

I see two things here. Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe. The other is that you want me to do your research. You won't believe what the Bible teaches unless you see it for yourself. Is that a good position to be in? I've seen some evidence of healing, people I've known personally, but nothing I've seen personally is on video tape. I've written about. The miracles in the Bible aren't on video tape, either. That doesn't mean it did happen. I did post a link to a woman being healed in church twenty years to the day if I'm not mistaken, to an accident that left her unable to feel her legs. There was actually a local news story on it posted on YouTube when I researched. But I'm not going to look it up for you. There are healings on YouTube you could check out. I've seen lots of videos about it. But if you keep your current mindset, you'll just find a way to explain it away. So I don't care to look up links for you. If you want to research this stuff, you can. I don't see how it will change your mindset if you are so closed to what the Bible says on the topic.

and i WILL verify it. i need to be able to TEST you.....you talk about obedience. let's get started.

Go do your own research. I don't trust your credibility as an unbiased verifier based on the content of past posts. I've already given one link if you want to check that out.

they miraculously spoke LANGUAGES. get it? let's see you do it! anyone in your group

It happens quite a bit. Honestly, I don't feel comfortable posting that kind of stuff on the Internet or subjecting it to a laboratory environment. If someone believes the Lord wants them to prophesy or speak in tongues and interpret on the Internet, I don't condemn that or oppose it, but I wouldn't feel comfortable just putting speaking in tongues out there for unbelievers to watch.

you can quote Corinthians til the cows come home (the most disorderly and sinful church paul dealt with)

Paul teaches the correct order in the passage. Many churches disobey it. That's the point. I know I could quote I Corinthians till the cows come home, but that won't make you believe it.

I don't have to see someone raised from the dead to believe that God has done it. Do you?

 

[SarahM777]

oncerned.


I see two things here. Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe. The other is that you want me to do your research. You won't believe what the Bible teaches unless you see it for yourself. Is that a good position to be in? I've seen some evidence of healing, people I've known personally, but nothing I've seen personally is on video tape. I've written about. The miracles in the Bible aren't on video tape, either. That doesn't mean it did happen. I did post a link to a woman being healed in church twenty years to the day if I'm not mistaken, to an accident that left her unable to feel her legs. There was actually a local news story on it posted on YouTube when I researched. But I'm not going to look it up for you. There are healings on YouTube you could check out. I've seen lots of videos about it. But if you keep your current mindset, you'll just find a way to explain it away. So I don't care to look up links for you. If you want to research this stuff, you can. I don't see how it will change your mindset if you are so closed to what the Bible says on the topic.

UMMM Are you sure you don't that in reverse? That it's actually those that say they have and do that stuff MUST have that stuff in order to believe?

Please help with this seeming contradiction,Paul was inspired to tell us to test the spirits,correct? So it's the Holy Spirit telling us to test these things,correct? So then why if the Holy Spirit is telling us to test these things why would the Holy Spirit then hide the very thing He tells us to test? Does that make sense to you that on one hand He tells us to test it and then turn around and hide it so it CAN NOT be tested? Isn't that confusion? And we know God is NOT a god of confusion.

I Believe not because I have ever seen any of the signs and wonders gifts,(not any that can be truly verified) I believe because of one thing,I can trust in one thing,I know that Jesus died on a cross,was buried,and rose again on the third day just as the Bible said He did. All of history points to that FACT. I can hold on to that,it happened just as the Bible says it did.

See one of problems that I have seen with this goes to one thing,where in a lot of this is the fruits of the Spirit and the love of Jesus? Because of where I have been I have seen the difference between a lot of so called fake Christians and the real deal fleshed out. Try coming out of the LGBT community in many churches and see if you can find the same love and compassion that Jesus showed the woman at the well,the thief on the cross,the woman caught in adultery,see if you can find it. That is where the reality is. Jesus told us we would KNOW one is His disciple HOW?

Isn't John very clear in his first letter about it too,in fact he states it at least three times

1 John 2

9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister[b] is still in the darkness. 10 Anyone who loves their brother and sister[c] lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. 11But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them

1 John 3

7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us.And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children,let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

1 John 4

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

John equates being God's as how? It's pretty clear. Remember this is the first fruit of the Spirit. So again if one does not see the fruits of the Spirit can one say that it truly is from God?

And taking it further what does Paul love is?

1 Corinthians 13

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

So if love is not there can say one that it is the Holy Spirit that is doing it?

 

[SarahM777]

And taking it a bit further,isn't that part of God's love for us to tell us to test these things so we are not led into deception? If it can't tested then how does one know they are not being led into deception?

 

[SarahM777]

If many would get it into their heads that the Lord told us to test these things because of the deceptions that are out there,because of His love for us. He does not want to see us destroyed because of them. It is for our own good that we are to do so. (God doesn't need to test it because He already knows) It's for our sake. He warned us that there would be such strong delusion that if it were possible that even the elect could be deceived. It's a strong warning,but one that is needed to be heeded. Can someone tell me why it so often seems as if that warning is not taken seriously?

And why is it not OK to test these when the HOLY SPIRIT told us to test the spirits? We are told not to test Christ,but we are told to test that other stuff because of the deceptions.

 

[zone]

When did I claim to be an apostle or prophet. I say I believe what the Bible says about it. That's what I've claimed as far as that is concerned.

you've claimed there are prophets today.
are there apostles today? or did they have to have seen Jesus?
you said you believe the Bible - what does it say about that?

Mark 16:20
19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed. And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.

see how it worked?

......

if there are real ones today (just prophets...unless you know of apostles) - who are they?
post their names. or at least the important prophecies God gave them.
if they aren't important, why would God need prophets?
have they got anything at all to say that i can't read about? not so far. still waiting.

haven't you already listed some?
i can go back and search if you won't list them here.

I see two things here. Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe.

pffft.
i believe in Jesus Christ and everything the Word says about Him. i don't need any signs to believe in Him.
i can read about the signs He performed and be amazed - i don't need them replicated to believe.

you mean: unless i see signs and wonders, i will not believe in men performing signs and wonders (miracles) today.

and that's exactly right.

the Pentecostal movement has so degraded the meaning or the word miracle, it's no wonder ppl can't imagine what they really were when reading scripture.

so the first thing "you see" you have exactly backwards.

The other is that you want me to do your research. You won't believe what the Bible teaches unless you see it for yourself.

oh puh-leeeeeze.
i don't need you to do my research for me.
i asked you to provide evidence of your claims - (i.e.) that there are prophets today receiving direct revelation from God.

i believe everything the Bible teaches.
what does that have to do with people today who claim to be prophets - or have the gift of healing?
zip.

you want to lift the supernatural gifts i read about in Acts - languages/healing/miracles/signs - and say that's what's going on in the church on the corner? no wonder you don't understand what happened at Pentecost and with the sent.

do i need to see the Red Sea Parted or Lazarus raised to believe what the Bible says? NO. i read it and believe it.
do i need to see Elijah bring down fire from heaven to believe it happened? NO. i read it and believe it.
do i need to see Paul bring down a blinding mist on a bad guy to believe what the Bible says? NO. i read it and believe it.
do i need to see Peter heal a beggar who had been lame from his mother's womb to believe what the Bible says? NO. i read it and believe it.

do i need to SEE JESUS stand before me and perform miracles to believe in Him? NO. i read what He did and believe it ALL.

why DO i believe all that?
because the Holy Spirit (the author of Scripture) testifies that what i read is TRUE.

so this is patently false (but typical in this discussion):

I see two things here. Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe.

John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, "You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."

Is that a good position to be in? I've seen some evidence of healing, people I've known personally

so have i - according to answered prayer.

i have never seen a beggar lame from his mother's womb get up and leap around - have you?
never a totally blind man (from birth) receive his sight - have you?

if it's happened - where's the proof?
if i can find out who was healed - by someone who was performing that as a SIGN to confirm the message and their authority as one direct SENT by Christ - and check that both of them are true, i'll be the first to get on here and proclaim it.

but nothing I've seen personally is on video tape. I've written about. The miracles in the Bible aren't on video tape, either. That doesn't mean it did happen.

i know what's in the Bible is true.

i don't have any reason to, nor am i commanded to believe any other report without verifying it.
if i can verify it, i'll believe it.

I did post a link to a woman being healed in church twenty years to the day if I'm not mistaken, to an accident that left her unable to feel her legs. There was actually a local news story on it posted on YouTube when I researched. But I'm not going to look it up for you.

i've seen it as well.
she stood for a few moments.

is she leaping about?

that's what this discussion is about - NOT about anyone slowing recovering, to some degree after twenty years according to prayer....or even being miraculously delivered from something according to answered prayer.

it's about this:

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

so where are the prophets?
where are their prophecies?

and where are they suddenly speaking in gentile languages?

i won't bother asking you to post - because you can't and won't.
and you have the gall to say "Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible"

There are healings on YouTube you could check out. I've seen lots of videos about it.

i have.
shoulder pain relieved or high blood pressured lowered isn't raising someone from the dead or restoring sight to the blind.
you have emotional healing revivals with claims made - then what happens on follow-up?

But if you keep your current mindset, you'll just find a way to explain it away. So I don't care to look up links for you. If you want to research this stuff, you can. I don't see how it will change your mindset if you are so closed to what the Bible says on the topic.

not closed anything The Bible says.
i believe it all.

this thread says:

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

so, let's forget the disobedient churches for now.

which churches - by name and location, are allowing tongues and prophecy today?

tongues are a sign for unbelievers - have you got a ton of unbelievers inside your church?
do they come to faith and repentance because the heard THE GOSPEL in their own language?
if not, you're doing something else.

Go do your own research. I don't trust your credibility as an unbiased verifier based on the content of past posts. I've already given one link if you want to check that out.

done it.
got anything else?

It happens quite a bit. Honestly, I don't feel comfortable posting that kind of stuff on the Internet or subjecting it to a laboratory environment.

right.
standard.
so why should anyone believe you?
answer - they shouldn't - until they can test it.

why wouldn't you feel comfortable "subjecting it to a laboratory environment"?
i thought you were all about obedience - test the spirits BECAUSE many false prophets have gone out into the world.
yet you denigrate that command by calling it "subjecting it to a laboratory environment"

If someone believes the Lord wants them to prophesy or speak in tongues and interpret on the Internet, I don't condemn that or oppose it

neither do i....until i find out it's fake.
i keep looking for the real thing.

is there ONE single example of a New Testament apostle or prophet saying "Thus saith The Lord" then proceeding from their lips First Person verbatim words from The Lord - God speaking THROUGH them?

answer - NO.
but apparently He's doing it today.
so it must be HUGELY important.
let's see what he is saying.....where's all the NEW Christian doctrine He has revealed?

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

but I wouldn't feel comfortable just putting speaking in tongues out there for unbelievers to watch.

why not?

tongues are A SIGN FOR UNBELIEVERS - it should be ON THE NET - not in church - right?
how come sinners aren't hearing the Wonderful Works of God in the languages in which they were born through these videos and GETTING SAVED?

answer - because it's gibberish and NO ONE understands it. not even the person doing it.
they don't have any idea what the message in their heads is when they do it.
unlike the Biblical examples where they DID.

Paul teaches the correct order in the passage. Many churches disobey it. That's the point.

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

i don't care what order 'tongues and prophecy' are done in today - let's just see the real thing done AT ALL.

I know I could quote I Corinthians till the cows come home, but that won't make you believe it.

i read I Corinthians and believe it.
and i know what they were doing AND WHY.

I don't have to see someone raised from the dead to believe that God has done it. Do you?

answered above. NO.

i do want to verify anyone is raising people from the dead TODAY to believe it.
that has NOTHING to do with my faith in Christ or the Word - it has everything to do with testing all things.

BECAUSE - not only was this true during the Apostolic Era....

Mark 13:22
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

it's true today.
already verified many times that there are false messiahs and false prophets and people who lie.

....

DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE?


Mark 16:20
19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.

 

[unclefester]

you've claimed there are prophets today.
are there apostles today? or did they have to have seen Jesus?
you said you believe the Bible - what does it say about that?

Mark 16:20
19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed. And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.

see how it worked?

......

if there are real ones today (just prophets...unless you know of apostles) - who are they?
post their names. or at least the important prophecies God gave them.
if they aren't important, why would God need prophets?
have they got anything at all to say that i can't read about? not so far. still waiting.

haven't you already listed some?
i can go back and search if you won't list them here.



pffft.
i believe in Jesus Christ and everything the Word says about Him. i don't need any signs to believe in Him.
i can read about the signs He performed and be amazed - i don't need them replicated to believe.

you mean: unless i see signs and wonders, i will not believe in men performing signs and wonders (miracles) today.

and that's exactly right.

the Pentecostal movement has so degraded the meaning or the word miracle, it's no wonder ppl can't imagine what they really were when reading scripture.

so the first thing "you see" you have exactly backwards.



oh puh-leeeeeze.
i don't need you to do my research for me.
i asked you to provide evidence of your claims - (i.e.) that there are prophets today receiving direct revelation from God.

i believe everything the Bible teaches.
what does that have to do with people today who claim to be prophets - or have the gift of healing?
zip.

you want to lift the supernatural gifts i read about in Acts - languages/healing/miracles/signs - and say that's what's going on in the church on the corner? no wonder you don't understand what happened at Pentecost and with the sent.

do i need to see the Red Sea Parted or Lazarus raised to believe what the Bible says? NO. i read it and believe it.
do i need to see Elijah bring down fire from heaven to believe it happened? NO. i read it and believe it.
do i need to see Paul bring down a blinding mist on a bad guy to believe what the Bible says? NO. i read it and believe it.
do i need to see Peter heal a beggar who had been lame from his mother's womb to believe what the Bible says? NO. i read it and believe it.

do i need to SEE JESUS stand before me and perform miracles to believe in Him? NO. i read what He did and believe it ALL.

why DO i believe all that?
because the Holy Spirit (the author of Scripture) testifies that what i read is TRUE.

so this is patently false (but typical in this discussion):



John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, "You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."



so have i - according to answered prayer.

i have never seen a beggar lame from his mother's womb get up and leap around - have you?
never a totally blind man (from birth) receive his sight - have you?

if it's happened - where's the proof?
if i can find out who was healed - by someone who was performing that as a SIGN to confirm the message and their authority as one direct SENT by Christ - and check that both of them are true, i'll be the first to get on here and proclaim it.



i know what's in the Bible is true.

i don't have any reason to, nor am i commanded to believe any other report without verifying it.
if i can verify it, i'll believe it.



i've seen it as well.
she stood for a few moments.

is she leaping about?

that's what this discussion is about - NOT about anyone slowing recovering, to some degree after twenty years according to prayer....or even being miraculously delivered from something according to answered prayer.

it's about this:

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

so where are the prophets?
where are their prophecies?

and where are they suddenly speaking in gentile languages?

i won't bother asking you to post - because you can't and won't.
and you have the gall to say "Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible"



i have.
shoulder pain relieved or high blood pressured lowered isn't raising someone from the dead or restoring sight to the blind.
you have emotional healing revivals with claims made - then what happens on follow-up?



not closed anything The Bible says.
i believe it all.

this thread says:

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

so, let's forget the disobedient churches for now.

which churches - by name and location, are allowing tongues and prophecy today?

tongues are a sign for unbelievers - have you got a ton of unbelievers inside your church?
do they come to faith and repentance because the heard THE GOSPEL in their own language?
if not, you're doing something else.



done it.
got anything else?



right.
standard.
so why should anyone believe you?
answer - they shouldn't - until they can test it.

why wouldn't you feel comfortable "subjecting it to a laboratory environment"?
i thought you were all about obedience - test the spirits BECAUSE many false prophets have gone out into the world.
yet you denigrate that command by calling it "subjecting it to a laboratory environment"



neither do i....until i find out it's fake.
i keep looking for the real thing.

is there ONE single example of a New Testament apostle or prophet saying "Thus saith The Lord" then proceeding from their lips First Person verbatim words from The Lord - God speaking THROUGH them?

answer - NO.
but apparently He's doing it today.
so it must be HUGELY important.
let's see what he is saying.....where's all the NEW Christian doctrine He has revealed?

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible



why not?

tongues are A SIGN FOR UNBELIEVERS - it should be ON THE NET - not in church - right?
how come sinners aren't hearing the Wonderful Works of God in the languages in which they were born through these videos and GETTING SAVED?

answer - because it's gibberish and NO ONE understands it. not even the person doing it.
they don't have any idea what the message in their heads is when they do it.
unlike the Biblical examples where they DID.



Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

i don't care what order 'tongues and prophecy' are done in today - let's just see the real thing done AT ALL.



i read I Corinthians and believe it.
and i know what they were doing AND WHY.



answered above. NO.

i do want to verify anyone is raising people from the dead TODAY to believe it.
that has NOTHING to do with my faith in Christ or the Word - it has everything to do with testing all things.

BECAUSE - not only was this true during the Apostolic Era....

Mark 13:22
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

it's true today.
already verified many times that there are false messiahs and false prophets and people who lie.

....

DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE?


Mark 16:20
19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.

Amen. Must spread reputation around before giving it to Zone again.

 

[zone]

how about:

Re: Churches That Don't Sit Quietly And Allow Prophecy To Be Read Directly from The Bible Don't Care About Prophecy.

and if they have a repeat visitor who doesn't understand the tongue (language) the pastor/teacher is preaching in....and they don't eventually provide a translation of some sort, they aren't feeding that visitor The Word of God.

 

[SarahM777]

I Believe not because I have ever seen any of the signs and wonders gifts,(not any that can be truly verified) I believe because of one thing,I can trust in one thing,I know that Jesus died on a cross,was buried,and rose again on the third day just as the Bible said He did. All of history points to that FACT. I can hold on to that,it happened just as the Bible says it did.

I meant to say not that any of what we have heard of can not be verified. I do apologize for the confusion.

 

[presidente]

Apostles HAD to have seen Jesus - have you figured that out yet? YOU ARE MY WITNESSES

It seems like you read and think about passages very 'lightly' sometimes. Jesus told the group of men standing before him 'you are my witnesses'. He did not say 'all apostles are my witnesses.' Not all the apostles mentioned in scripture were standing before Him when He said that. Paul wasn't there. Most likely Apollos and Timothy weren't there. I think it unlikely Barnabas or Silas were with Christ before the ascension, but it's possible.

Paul was not qualified to be one of the twelve according to the requirements Peter laid out. That doesn't mean he couldn't be an apostle. When Christ ascended, he received the gift of apostles (plural) and gave it to men. The Twelve were made apostles before the ascensions. The twelve who had to have seen Christ and been with the group of apostles from the time of John.

not partial sometimes accurate prophecies. not slow maybe-healings. not Bonnke's lies about raising the dead.

What is your methodology for testing Bonnke's resurrection? Which ones are you calling lies? Have you interviewed the two or three witnesses or more? I don't know that much about him or how he screens miracles. The clips I've seen show that he allows testimonies. Listening to the testimony of two or three witnesses is a Biblical concept. You say you'll test things, but it seems you are quick to dismiss claims that don't fit into your preconceived notion of how things works. You also seem really quick to just believe any claim about Greek as long as it can help you keep your theological perspective, even if just about every translator who put together a Bible disagreed with you.

 

[presidente]

how about:

Re: Churches That Don't Sit Quietly And Allow Prophecy To Be Read Directly from The Bible Don't Care About Prophecy.

and if they have a repeat visitor who doesn't understand the tongue (language) the pastor/teacher is preaching in....and they don't eventually provide a translation of some sort, they aren't feeding that visitor The Word of God.

Paul tells Timothy to give himself to 'reading' and epistles were to be read in churches. I can't find direct statements of scripture to exactly support your proposed title. But I agree that a church that doesn't have scripture reading is messed up.

But the title of this thread is true, too. The Bible commands 'let the prophets speak' and if a church doesn't do that, it is in disobedience. It commands 'forbid not to speak with tongues' and if a church does not allow speaking in tongues (in the proper order described in the passage) then it is in disobedience. Paul says what he wrote are the commandments of the Lord, which is very clear.

I notice no one has put together an argument to actually disagree with the subject line to argue that the scriptures don't say that. I do so a lot more elaborate excuses for trying to get away from the truth described in the title.

A better title would be 'Churches that do not allow tongues and prophecy in their meetings disobey the commandments of the Lord."

 

[zone]

I notice no one has put together an argument to actually disagree with the subject line to argue that the scriptures don't say that."

why would anyone argue the scriptures don't say that?

your problem really is that there are no more prophets today.

No More Prophets
No More Prophets - SermonAudio.com

 

[presidente]

I posted this as a new thread. I'll copy it here.

t After the Lord Jesus Christ’s resurrection he said, “these signs shall follow them that believe…” (Mark 16:17). In this verse “[t]he verb ‘believe’ in the Greek is in the aorist tense…which refers to those who did believe, not those who would believe at that time or in the future.” (Spiros Zodhiates)

The scholar I FBed about this said usage trumps the silly non-rules. He also disagreed with Zodhiates interpretation here.

If you are going to accept this kind of argument, be consistent.

Let's look at the other aorists in the passage. I am going to use bold on the Aorists, otherwise, this is NKJV.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;


If you are going to argue that the aorist can only be used this way, see the implications for the previous verse. So if 'those who believe' were those who already believed prior to Jesus' saying this because the aorist is used, then 'believes' and 'baptized' should only apply to those who already believed and were baptized.

So what are the implications here? Those who believed and were baptized BEFORE Jesus said this, before the Gospel is preached, would be saved. So if you argue that only those who had believed before Jesus said these words would do the signs, then you should also believe that the passage is only saying 'He who believes and is baptized will be saved' about those who were baptized BEFORE Jesus said these words, and BEFORE the apostles went to preach.

The problem is, that doesn't make sense in context. Why would Jesus send the apostles out to preach the Gospel, and then say only those who believed and were baptized before the Gospel was preached could be saved.

James 5:20
[SUP]20 [/SUP]let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Does it make sense that James is only saying that those who have already turned a sinner from the error of his ways save a soul from death? Why do the translators disagree with that translation of an aorist? Why is it that the verse makes so much more sense in context as an encouragement that this is an ongoing possibility-- to turn someone from error-- as opposed to something that only applied to the past?

Here is another one:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.




So the devil takes the words from their heart, to prevent them from already being saved in the past.

That application of this 'rule' about the aorist makes no sense.

What about this one:

I Thessalonians 2:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP]that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.
(NKJV)

Imagine that. Paul commands the Thessalonians to go back in time and relive their lives so that they walk worthy? The word is in the aorist after all. How does it make sense to command someone now to have done something in the past. Fortunately, the translators of the passage knew better, just as they did with the other passages. Often, they actually use language scholars to translate.

A simple answer, other than time travel, is that some of the proposed grammatical 'rules' about the aorist just aren't rules at all.

 

[directline2iam]

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

and
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

and

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

and

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

and
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Unity in the Body


Ephesians 4:11-13
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12) for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13) UNTIL WE ALL ATTAIN to the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, TO A MATURE man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.…


I guess in 2000 years of spiritual teaching your church still hasn't ATTAINED UNITY nor MATURETY. Grow up and become a real Christian already and stop the fake silly nonsense the Lord is being patient in. There is no need for the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues any longer as the Christian Church has ATTAINED UNITY AND MATURETY. Go somewhere else with your BS. Stop being part of the Anti-christian church you deceivers.

Cross References


2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brothers and sisters, rejoice! Strive for FULL RESTORATION, encourage one another, be of ONE mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.

 

[presidente]

Ephesians 4:11-13
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12) for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13) UNTIL WE ALL ATTAIN to the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, TO A MATURE man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.…


I guess in 2000 years of spiritual teaching your church still hasn't ATTAINED UNITY nor MATURETY. Grow up and become a real Christian already and stop the fake silly nonsense the Lord is being patient in. There is no need for the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues any longer as the Christian Church has ATTAINED UNITY AND MATURETY. Go somewhere else with your BS. Stop being part of the Anti-christian church you deceivers.

A few problems here.

-- There is still a lot of disunity and immaturity.
-- Your post doesn't seem that mature.
-- The passage you quote doesn't even mention speaking tongues.

 

[directline2iam]

A few problems here.

-- There is still a lot of disunity and immaturity.
-- Your post doesn't seem that mature.
-- The passage you quote doesn't even mention speaking tongues.[/QUOTE

----Ya, the disunity and immaturity is the false churches that have your beliefs.
----And of a course my post doesn't seem that mature to you, look how warped your thinking is.
----Is the word Apostle in the verse, is the word prophet in the verse, did not the persons whom were given these titles speak in tongues? Well there you go, all your false accusations come back to bite you.

 

[zone]

Unity in the Body


Ephesians 4:11-13
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12) for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13) UNTIL WE ALL ATTAIN to the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, TO A MATURE man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.…


I guess in 2000 years of spiritual teaching your church still hasn't ATTAINED UNITY nor MATURETY. Grow up and become a real Christian already and stop the fake silly nonsense the Lord is being patient in. There is no need for the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues any longer as the Christian Church has ATTAINED UNITY AND MATURETY. Go somewhere else with your BS. Stop being part of the Anti-christian church you deceivers.

Cross References


2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brothers and sisters, rejoice! Strive for FULL RESTORATION, encourage one another, be of ONE mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.

You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.

You cannot give Reputation to the same post three times.

 

[Kerry]

Tongues are biblical, why the hostility. By the way, nothing has ceased. People are still being healed and people are still being filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking tongues. What do yall have against it. Most true pentecostal live Holy lives as best they can. They preach the cross more than most psychology teaching churches. So whats the beef?