Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

[Stephen63]

UMM If I am wrong on you posting something other then either your say so that this is from God or hearsay please show me.

Ummm....... WHAT? What was that pile of words you were trying to say?

Sorry but you do keep saying that God will not show any of this to those of us on this side so it can tested. Yet God does tell us to test it.

I SAID......... The Holy Spirit will not put on a personal performance just to please you in your flesh. There's Biblical proof to back this:
Matthew 13:53-58 (KJV) 53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence. 54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Since you and your pack are just like these people, your unbelief will quench the Spirit, not allowing it to happen.

Anyone who tries to do this to please you, you would just nail them to the wall, knowing that the Holy Spirit will not perform for the flesh in the first place.

Back up your claims on where you were lied about.

What I said is what we have seen is false. What we have asked is where is the true. Big difference between the two.

UMM I did back them up Stephen but you refuse to see it. It's not slander when it's the truth.

I haven't seen you back up anything. Just making a bunch of statements you can't prove. And I say can't because so far you haven't.

 

[Apostol2013]

The only sign you will see is the sign of jonah this is the stayement jesus said but you will see again the day of the church strong like the beginning this is coming i can asure you "for the fool hath said in his heart there is no God

 

[Apostol2013]

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[Apostol2013]

Unless we have any of these signs we are not believers and dammed.but do not be dismayed all you have to do is believe and ask and you will receive this is to those that had confessed the lord and believe every word for the lord hAth saith unless you have the faith of a child you will not see the kingdom of heaven

 

[zone]

AGAIN,WHERE DO YOU GET THESE STATEMENTS? Nowhere in scripture does it say that an apostle has to see Jesus to qualify him. Sheesh! Are you just grabbing this out of thin air? PROVE ALL THINGS! The ball's in your court now.

PART II continued - WITNESSES:



Acts 1:22
Matthias Replaces Judas
21"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us-- 22beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us-- one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection." 23So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias


one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection



please reconcile this passage with your statement:

Nowhere in scripture does it say that an apostle has to see Jesus to qualify him. Sheesh!


what was it they had to have been WITNESSES of?
refer back to Jesus Himself speaking in Luke 24.

do you deny what Jesus said?
do you deny what LUKE says right here?:


Acts 1
The Promise of the Holy Spirit
1In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.

4And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”


does Luke agree with himself in Luke 24 & Acts 1?

please reconcile this passage with your NOT KNOWING where the statement came from that they were HIS WITNESSES - specifically that He was RESURRECTED.

and you are a Pastor.
yet you do not know the scriptures.

 

[Cee]

Notice it says ARE BUILT.

Not were built.

I've seen churches who don't understand the apostle nor the prophets role. They live from a humanistic interpretation of Scripture. The fruits of the Spirit are performance goals instead of simply fruits.

This is why Paul said to desire all spiritual gifts, especially prophesy.

When are you going to listen to Scripture? Desire all spiritual gifts. Especially prophesy. And yes you can test for YOURSELF... but that doesn't mean you judge servants of God. It is written, we shall be judged by no one.

We are lead by the Spirit. But many think they are supposed to be lead by reading Scripture and listening to a pastor.

Will the Spirit use these? Yes. But, the church is supposed to be ruled from the heaven down, not from the Earth up. God desires relationship, never-ending 24/7 fellowship and communion. Jesus didn't die so we could merely get to heaven, but so that heaven could come into us.

The veil was torn so we could be with God and in His presence. Hence, don't forbid tongues nor prophesy. They make no sense to your natural mind, because your natural mind is enmity with God.

Saturday, I listened to the Holy Spirit as He gave me words of knowledge about people out and about my day, one person had a back back, another a bad knee, He healed both of them after praying like He commanded me to do.

I don't say this to puff myself up, but that you might consider that the Holy Spirit wants to bless people through you, talk to people through you, work miracles through you, that the world would know He is God and that you would understand in a new way of what it means to be led by the Spirit.

As far as gifts no longer being needed because "we've got it all figured out now" that's what the Pharisees thought.

They thought they had it all figured out. They would follow the Word instead of letting it transform them. They would DO everything it said, but they missed Jesus completely.

Because they were white-washed tombs with hard hearts that wouldn't listen to God speak to them. Jesus told us good trees can't bear bad fruit, but neither can bad trees bear good fruit. Thus by the fruit we shall recognize them.

To some this is a problem, a big one. To others this is a promise, a big one.

C.

This is her original quote, The one I questioned:


Here's my quote, asking the question:



You would think that anybody would be able to understand why I asked the question. But no............... She replies with something that doesn't even talk about it, loading up the page with paragraphs and pictures.

But did they speak to the issue? No. She didn't say a single thing about how she believed that the apostles had to see Jesus or they were not apostles. Not one word!

I guess maybe she thinks we would just get tired and quit from all the useless paragraphs she's writing.

You want to know what's funny? When these kooky televangelists are asked a direct question, they will do the same thing! The irony of it all! Acting like the ones you're so against!

 

[Cee]

Matthias never saw Jesus. Yet was made an Apostle.

Paul also talks about other apostles. Nowhere. In. The. Bible. Does. Apostles. Nor. Prophets. Stop.

That was decided because it was too "spooky", hard to control, and didn't fit in with man's plans and purposes.

Now we have programs, building committees, and really great principles.

Yet the church is sicker than the world in some places, more corrupt in others, and waiting ever patiently feeling powerless while the enemy tries to chop them down.

It should not be like this. We are the light of the world. We are told get on hills and shine. Make disciples OF nations. Transform culture, not conform to it. His Kingdom is one of peace, joy, and righteousness.

But, regardless of what WE want, God is already lifting up His glory carriers. 2/3 of the church now are Spirit-filled. I have witnessed His power, I have seen His miracles, and I know His love first-hand.

He is transforming this world. The world will know He has power on Earth to forgive sin. And not by our "persuasive speech" but by the simple power of the gospel of the Kingdom of God.

C.

PART II continued - WITNESSES:



Acts 1:22
Matthias Replaces Judas
21"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us-- 22beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us-- one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection." 23So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias


one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection



please reconcile this passage with your statement:

Nowhere in scripture does it say that an apostle has to see Jesus to qualify him. Sheesh!


what was it they had to have been WITNESSES of?
refer back to Jesus Himself speaking in Luke 24.

do you deny what Jesus said?
do you deny what LUKE says right here?:


Acts 1
The Promise of the Holy Spirit
1In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.

4And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”


does Luke agree with himself in Luke 24 & Acts 1?

please reconcile this passage with your NOT KNOWING where the statement came from that they were HIS WITNESSES - specifically that He was RESURRECTED.

and you are a Pastor.
yet you do not know the scriptures.

 

[zone]

AGAIN,WHERE DO YOU GET THESE STATEMENTS? Nowhere in scripture does it say that an apostle has to see Jesus to qualify him. Sheesh! Are you just grabbing this out of thin air? PROVE ALL THINGS! The ball's in your court now.

PART II continued - WITNESSES

Acts 1
The Ascension
6So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”


where YOU there Stephen?
how about C Peter Wagner?

did you witness ANYTHING in person?
did Jesus teach YOU personally?

did you SEE HIM IN IS RESURRECTION?

if Christ was not raised from the dead - WE ARE ALL TO BE MOST PITIED.

but we have WITNESSES, who saw Him live, DIE and RAISED FROM THE DEAD.

so what is a witness FOR?

TO TESTIFY that what they SAW and HEARD is TRUE.



Acts 5
27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. 30The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”


But Peter and the apostles answered
we are witnesses to these things



Acts 5
Many Signs and Wonders Done
12Now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the apostles. And they were all together in Solomon’s Portico. 13None of the rest dared join them, but the people held them in high esteem. 14And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, 15so that they even carried out the sick into the streets and laid them on cots and mats, that as Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on some of them. 16The people also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all healed.



bringing "the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits" TO WHOM and they were healed? YOU?

these were the SIGNS that FOLLOWED those who were clothed with POWER from on High - in ORDER THAT:

"you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth"



how many witnesses do we have so far FROM SCRIPTURE (and from the Holy Spirit) that The Apostles were WITNESSES (who saw Jesus alive; the dead and buried, the ALIVE FOREVERMORE?


continued.....

 

[zone]

i'll be back later Stephen.
with a dozen more scriptures. and then more after that - since you don't seem to know WHERE THEY ARE.

in the meantime, you don't have to go to the wall on this - you can agree with SCRIPTURE today.
or you can keep looking for a way to deny what it says so you and your friends can claim to have and do what THEY did.

it's your choice - and as much as i despise this saying - "the ball's in your court" for now

(what a sad way to examine the scriptures to SEE IF THESE THINGS ARE SO)

 

[Cee]

Paul also wasn't there, when He died nor when He rose from the dead.

Either were most of the apostles. They went back to their former way of life.

I am a witness of Jesus. You are a witness of Jesus.

By our testimony. By the transforming power inside of us. We are the only Bible some will read. Just as the Son displayed the Father to the world, we display the Son to the world. Because it is not us who live, but Him in us.

Yes, we are His witnesses, We Amen His words.

C.

PART II continued - WITNESSES

Acts 1
The Ascension
6So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”


where YOU there Stephen?
how about C Peter Wagner?

did you witness ANYTHING in person?
did Jesus teach YOU personally?

did you SEE HIM IN IS RESURRECTION?

if Christ was not raised from the dead - WE ARE ALL TO BE MOST PITIED.

but we have WITNESSES, who saw Him live, DIE and RAISED FROM THE DEAD.

so what is a witness FOR?

TO TESTIFY that what they SAW and HEARD is TRUE.



Acts 5
27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. 30The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”


But Peter and the apostles answered
we are witnesses to these things



Acts 5
Many Signs and Wonders Done
12Now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the apostles. And they were all together in Solomon’s Portico. 13None of the rest dared join them, but the people held them in high esteem. 14And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, 15so that they even carried out the sick into the streets and laid them on cots and mats, that as Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on some of them. 16The people also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all healed.



bringing "the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits" TO WHOM and they were healed? YOU?

these were the SIGNS that FOLLOWED those who were clothed with POWER from on High - in ORDER THAT:

"you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth"



how many witnesses do we have so far FROM SCRIPTURE (and from the Holy Spirit) that The Apostles were WITNESSES (who saw Jesus alive; the dead and buried, the ALIVE FOREVERMORE?


continued.....

 

[Cee]

Notice here Jesus says, you will be my witnesses to all the ends of the Earth. He didn't say this to Paul. Because Paul wasn't on the scene yet, nor was Matthias.

Also, Jesus told his disciples (not his apostles) to teach everything He commanded them.

We know from Scripture that 70 other disciples healed, we know that Philip walked in healing also from Scripture...

Were these also Apostles?

Also: Jesus said, command them in all I've taught you. To make disciples of NATIONS to preach the Kingdom of God... when's the last time you preached the Kingdom of God? Is the church focusing on making disciples of nations or in them? Are they teaching everything that Jesus commanded the disciples?

Are we doing the works He did and greater? He didn't say this to His disciples He said WHOSOEVER believeth on me....

You can't logic your way out of these questions, you're forced to either agree that Jesus meant what He said or He didn't. I know He did. I also know that just because some don't do it, it doesn't mean that God doesn't desire it.

Just like some aren't saved, but God desires all to be saved. Just like He desires us to live Holy lives, but not all do. Should we say God didn't mean what He said there also? Just because we're not doing what He said. How far do we pass the buck on God?

C.

PART II continued - WITNESSES

Acts 1
The Ascension
6So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”


where YOU there Stephen?
how about C Peter Wagner?

did you witness ANYTHING in person?
did Jesus teach YOU personally?

did you SEE HIM IN IS RESURRECTION?

if Christ was not raised from the dead - WE ARE ALL TO BE MOST PITIED.

but we have WITNESSES, who saw Him live, DIE and RAISED FROM THE DEAD.

so what is a witness FOR?

TO TESTIFY that what they SAW and HEARD is TRUE.



Acts 5
27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. 30The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”


But Peter and the apostles answered
we are witnesses to these things



Acts 5
Many Signs and Wonders Done
12Now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the apostles. And they were all together in Solomon’s Portico. 13None of the rest dared join them, but the people held them in high esteem. 14And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, 15so that they even carried out the sick into the streets and laid them on cots and mats, that as Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on some of them. 16The people also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all healed.



bringing "the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits" TO WHOM and they were healed? YOU?

these were the SIGNS that FOLLOWED those who were clothed with POWER from on High - in ORDER THAT:

"you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth"



how many witnesses do we have so far FROM SCRIPTURE (and from the Holy Spirit) that The Apostles were WITNESSES (who saw Jesus alive; the dead and buried, the ALIVE FOREVERMORE?


continued.....

 

[Cee]

Sounds a lot like the serpent... Did God really say? And our answer should be. YES. Yes God did say and yes we AGREE (AMEN) what He said, because all promises are yes in Christ.

By the way, in Christ the curse of the law was defeated. Take a peek of what was in that curse in Deuteronomy. This is why James said, IF any be sick... not WHEN... the prayer of the righteous man knows what God said and agrees with it here on Earth.

Let us agree here today that Jesus meant what He said. Whosoever believeth on Him shall do the works He did and greater... once we agree, we can begin to listen to the Holy Spirit and get rid of unbelief in our heart that tries to stop us from believing and agreeing with His promises.

C.

 

[SarahM777]

Ummm....... WHAT? What was that pile of words you were trying to say?


I SAID......... The Holy Spirit will not put on a personal performance just to please you in your flesh. There's Biblical proof to back this:
Matthew 13:53-58 (KJV) 53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence. 54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Since you and your pack are just like these people, your unbelief will quench the Spirit, not allowing it to happen.

Anyone who tries to do this to please you, you would just nail them to the wall, knowing that the Holy Spirit will not perform for the flesh in the first place.

I haven't seen you back up anything. Just making a bunch of statements you can't prove. And I say can't because so far you haven't.

Go back and read your persecution thread.

 

[Cee]

Jesus didn't do works, not because He couldn't. But, I think we can agree that if people don't believe you can do anything, they won't come up and ask for prayer. It also doesn't say He didn't do anything. Just few.

We are also told to not throw our pearls before swine. So, the intention and the hardness of their heart is very important to be sensitive to. If they are asking not to truly receive, but only to mock, well then we are to keep our pearls.

We must always be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and what He is doing. If we have no peace, we are to go elsewhere. We should always be in peace.

C.

 

[homwardbound]

[SUP] [/SUP]

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues

Plainly Scripture states do not forbid speaking in tongues. And do not necessarily speak in them either, Paul said he would rather us prophesy
[h=3]1 Corinthians 12[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Spiritual Gifts: Unity in Diversity[/h]12Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: [SUP]2 [/SUP]You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: [SUP]8 [/SUP]for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, [SUP]9 [/SUP]to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, [SUP]10 [/SUP]to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

[h=3]Unity and Diversity in One Body[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For in fact the body is not one member but many.
[SUP]15[/SUP]If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? [SUP]17 [/SUP]If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? [SUP]18[/SUP]But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And if they were all one member, where would the body be?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. [SUP]21[/SUP]And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” [SUP]22 [/SUP]No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, [SUP]25 [/SUP]that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. [SUP]28 [/SUP]And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? [SUP]30 [/SUP]Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? [SUP]31 [/SUP]But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

 

[homwardbound]

Jesus didn't do works, not because He couldn't. But, I think we can agree that if people don't believe you can do anything, they won't come up and ask for prayer. It also doesn't say He didn't do anything. Just few.

We are also told to not throw our pearls before swine. So, the intention and the hardness of their heart is very important to be sensitive to. If they are asking not to truly receive, but only to mock, well then we are to keep our pearls.

We must always be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and what He is doing. If we have no peace, we are to go elsewhere. We should always be in peace.

C.

And we can be always for Christ said this:
[h=3]John 16:33[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]33 [/SUP]These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

We are no longer of this world being in him. we are born again in the Spirit of God and live right here right now in God's Spirit, where peace, righteousness, Joy prevail in the midst of any and all adversity. Counting all things a Joy, knowing God has got us smothered and covered in God through Son Christ, whereby we have peace as this world's flesh atttudes and perceptions do its best to try and drown us out. But can't, as long as we walk as he walked.
How is that, we can do that?
Who did Christ send to us that believe? Was it not the same Holy Ghost that ked him? Did Christ do as was told? For he did nothing unless the Father told him nor said anything unless Father told him. What a great example yes, what freedom in the midst of adversity yes?
So let us see as he told his disciples does he not say the same to us:

[h=3]Matthew 10:16-20[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Persecutions Are Coming[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. [SUP]18 [/SUP]You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; [SUP]20 [/SUP]for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

 

[Apostol2013]

The twelve apostles are a different group but paul the apostle not being among thembut commisioned for a specifi, task and had seen the.glorified christ at damascus so yes there are apostles and prophets but the people will not adhre to the word neither will they listen to the prophets or these individuals need to be mentored

 

[Apostol2013]

The churches have gone in a state like the pharisees but i say God can make these rocks praise him

 

[presidente]

PART II continued - WITNESSES:



Acts 1:22
Matthias Replaces Judas
21"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us-- 22beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us-- one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection." 23So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias


one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection



please reconcile this passage with your statement/quote[

So are you saying you do not accept Paul as an apostle? Or Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, Apollos, or Epaphraditus?

Matthias replaced Judas to be one of the twelve.

 

[presidente]

Kerry,

Perhaps maybe someone can finally please explain this. I don't think anyone disagrees that at some point the gifts will cease. The disagreement of course is in the timing. I think most can agree Paul does say the gifts will cease,but here's the thing if the gifts continued on why does James,who I think we can agree was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write this

James 5

13 Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise.14Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord.15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

So the question is if the gifts continued why does James tell us to go before the elders,be anointed with oil and pray the prayer of faith? If the gifts continued why doesn't he say go to someone who has the gift of healing? Why does James state something that appears to be in contradiction to the gifts continuing? Why would James write this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit pointing to a change,if there was no change?

This passage supports healing continuing. If there is no gift of healing, how could the James operate in it? Read the next verses. James says to confess your sins one to another[/b] and pray one for another that ye may be healed.

James telling people to call the elders doesn't mean they can't get healed through other options. Praying for one another is another means of healing in the very same passage.

God heals through apostles.
God heals through elders.
God heals through evangelists.
God heals through believers who are neither apostles nor elders.
God can heal in answer to prayer.
God can just heal anyone He chooses to.

James 5 does not tie God's hands in any way.