The Israel of God
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D
I suggest you read Romans 9:7-8,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And they are not all the children of Abraham because they are by blood his descendants. No, [the promise was] Your descendants will be called and counted through the line of Isaac [though Abraham had an older son].
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is to say, it is not the children of the body [of Abraham] who are made God’s children, but it is the offspring to whom the promise applies that shall be counted [as Abraham’s true] descendants.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And they are not all the children of Abraham because they are by blood his descendants. No, [the promise was] Your descendants will be called and counted through the line of Isaac [though Abraham had an older son].
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is to say, it is not the children of the body [of Abraham] who are made God’s children, but it is the offspring to whom the promise applies that shall be counted [as Abraham’s true] descendants.
D
What you are forgetting is that there were two children, therefore, the things concerning the natural Israel have to be discerned and the things surrounding the spiritual Israel need to be discerned.
"[SUP]22 [/SUP]For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondmaid and one by the free woman.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But whereas the child of the slave woman was born according to the flesh and had an ordinary birth, the son of the free woman was born in fulfillment of the promise.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now all this is an allegory; these [two women] represent two covenants. One covenant originated from Mount Sinai [where the Law was given] and bears [children destined] for slavery; this is Hagar.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now Hagar is (stands for) Mount Sinai in Arabia and she corresponds to and belongs in the same category with the present Jerusalem, for she is in bondage together with her children.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Jerusalem above ([SUP][h][/SUP]the Messianic kingdom of Christ) is free, and she is our mother.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For it is written in the Scriptures, Rejoice, O barren woman, who has not given birth to children; break forth into a joyful shout, you who are not feeling birth pangs, for the desolate woman has many more children than she who has a husband.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But we, brethren, are children [[SUP][i][/SUP]not by physical descent, as was Ishmael, but] like Isaac, born [SUP][j][/SUP]in virtue of promise.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Yet [just] as at that time the child [of ordinary birth] born according to the flesh despised and persecuted him [who was born remarkably] according to [the promise and the working of] the [Holy] Spirit, so it is now also.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But what does the Scripture say? Cast out and send away the slave woman and her son, for never shall the son of the slave woman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So, brethren, we [who are born again] are not children of a slave woman [[SUP][k][/SUP]the natural], but of the free [[SUP][l][/SUP]the supernatural]." Galatians 4:22-31 AMP
"[SUP]22 [/SUP]For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondmaid and one by the free woman.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But whereas the child of the slave woman was born according to the flesh and had an ordinary birth, the son of the free woman was born in fulfillment of the promise.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now all this is an allegory; these [two women] represent two covenants. One covenant originated from Mount Sinai [where the Law was given] and bears [children destined] for slavery; this is Hagar.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now Hagar is (stands for) Mount Sinai in Arabia and she corresponds to and belongs in the same category with the present Jerusalem, for she is in bondage together with her children.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Jerusalem above ([SUP][h][/SUP]the Messianic kingdom of Christ) is free, and she is our mother.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For it is written in the Scriptures, Rejoice, O barren woman, who has not given birth to children; break forth into a joyful shout, you who are not feeling birth pangs, for the desolate woman has many more children than she who has a husband.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But we, brethren, are children [[SUP][i][/SUP]not by physical descent, as was Ishmael, but] like Isaac, born [SUP][j][/SUP]in virtue of promise.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Yet [just] as at that time the child [of ordinary birth] born according to the flesh despised and persecuted him [who was born remarkably] according to [the promise and the working of] the [Holy] Spirit, so it is now also.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But what does the Scripture say? Cast out and send away the slave woman and her son, for never shall the son of the slave woman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So, brethren, we [who are born again] are not children of a slave woman [[SUP][k][/SUP]the natural], but of the free [[SUP][l][/SUP]the supernatural]." Galatians 4:22-31 AMP
here's why your antichrist heretical source hates Paul:
Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
Wasn't my sour ce sunshine.
There are so many references to Paul being contrary to Jesus .
He diminishe'ed the law,diminished the Sabbath,said it was ok to eat food offered to idols,had different views on divorce to Jesus .Many of his lines were from previous people talking a bout other deities .su ch as Zeus .
Time to take off the rose colored glasses and do more research on Paul
There are so many references to Paul being contrary to Jesus .
He diminishe'ed the law,diminished the Sabbath,said it was ok to eat food offered to idols,had different views on divorce to Jesus .Many of his lines were from previous people talking a bout other deities .su ch as Zeus .
Time to take off the rose colored glasses and do more research on Paul
D
The Words of Paul hold no weight with you? You are kidding right? Are the letters of Paul not part of the Word of God?
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose, and action), [SUP]17 [/SUP]So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
....sounds to me you are just going along making stuff up to suit yourself.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose, and action), [SUP]17 [/SUP]So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
....sounds to me you are just going along making stuff up to suit yourself.
I didn't get far in my research.
Was the Apostle Paul actually a false prophet?
Question: "Was the Apostle Paul actually a false prophet?"
Answer: The theory that the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion
among others. They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible.
Was the Apostle Paul actually a false prophet?
Question: "Was the Apostle Paul actually a false prophet?"
Answer: The theory that the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion
among others. They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible.
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then
you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Goes WAYYY back
Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no euncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."
Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing dany evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which eplease Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then
you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Goes WAYYY back
Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no euncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."
Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing dany evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which eplease Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
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So who claimed to be an Apostle but was not as per Rev 2.2
Eph l 1.1
Definition of an Apostle
The requirements were the man had to be with Jesus the entire time of his mineisry and witness to the ressuretion and ascension
Acts 1.21,22
They chose two to replace Judas and cast lots.God chose Matthias .God wanted 12 apostles not 13
If there wasn't a specific number Justus would have been 13..
Paul didn't qualify as an Apostle nor was he chosen but it did.nt stop him calling himself one.
So Revelation 2.2 to Ephesians
You can not bear them which are evil and you have tried them which say they are apostles and are not and have found them liars
So waslPaul an apostle.NO?
He did.nt qualify.
So did he lie YES
Is he a liar.DEFINITELY
Eph l 1.1
Definition of an Apostle
The requirements were the man had to be with Jesus the entire time of his mineisry and witness to the ressuretion and ascension
Acts 1.21,22
They chose two to replace Judas and cast lots.God chose Matthias .God wanted 12 apostles not 13
If there wasn't a specific number Justus would have been 13..
Paul didn't qualify as an Apostle nor was he chosen but it did.nt stop him calling himself one.
So Revelation 2.2 to Ephesians
You can not bear them which are evil and you have tried them which say they are apostles and are not and have found them liars
So waslPaul an apostle.NO?
He did.nt qualify.
So did he lie YES
Is he a liar.DEFINITELY
Galatians 1:8
No Other Gospel
7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
God knew exactly what He was doing when He called Paul.
shines the light on you, my dear.
repent.
No Other Gospel
7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
God knew exactly what He was doing when He called Paul.
shines the light on you, my dear.
repent.
L
retro,
Why do the words of Paul, which were inspired by God, hold no weight with you?
Since Paul penned more than 50% of the New Testament, you must have an awfully thin Bible. Are you still living under the Old Testament law? Salvation IS for all and it was prophesied by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc. Paul taught salvation by grace to whosoever believes in Jesus Christ, as did the other Apostles.
Why do the words of Paul, which were inspired by God, hold no weight with you?
Since Paul penned more than 50% of the New Testament, you must have an awfully thin Bible. Are you still living under the Old Testament law? Salvation IS for all and it was prophesied by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc. Paul taught salvation by grace to whosoever believes in Jesus Christ, as did the other Apostles.
H
Most of you who know me, know I hate the "faith alone"gospel of the Dispensationalists and modern Fundamentalists. And you know I teach that the Church of God began in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. The eternal SON of GOD began the Church, not Jesus; But this is not to deny that Jesus is GOD. He is now forever connected to the eternal WORD ,the eternal SON is incarnated in the man Jesus. So It is very easy for me to under stand, that the spiritual Israel is made up of the ones that GOD has chosen to save from His chosen nation ,the Jews; And, from all nations of the earth. All of the elect of all nations and from all ages, are the "spiritual Israel of GOD", "the Church of GOD". Paul, GOD thru Paul, said "all (physical) Israel is not all (spiritual) Israel" Charles Ryrie is not the only dispensationalist who corrupts the Bible. All we have to read is the last two chapters of Revelation to see he is in error. The "saved" of all ages will be in the New Jerusalem ,on the New Earth. for ever. But the error of the Post mils and the A-Mils is ever bigger. They are also brain washed. Sorry, but the literal meaning of revelation makes more sense than spiritualizing it, to say it is all past history. The futuristic interpretation of Rev. makes more sense. Love to all, Hoffco
Thats not talking about natural israel. Thats Sprirutal Israel, the Church. natural israel was never God's Chosen People. There is a difference between national israel and the Election of Grace Israel. Paul gives it here Rom 11:7
7 What then? Israel[national] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest[national] were blinded.
Now how could the nation which is blinded be the election too ? The Election, God's Chosen People are different from the nation. This destroys your argument completely.
7 What then? Israel[national] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest[national] were blinded.
Now how could the nation which is blinded be the election too ? The Election, God's Chosen People are different from the nation. This destroys your argument completely.