Are King James Bible believers "Idolaters"?
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Well, Praus, you will notice that neither he nor you have yet to actually answer the question. Just like my article stated.
"So tell us, do you then fall into the category of the bible agnostics and unbelievers in the infallibility of ANY Bible in ANY language? Surely not, right? Then tell us very plainly if you can show us a complete and infallible Bible that you DO believe in."
Not gonna happen, is it Praus?
"So tell us, do you then fall into the category of the bible agnostics and unbelievers in the infallibility of ANY Bible in ANY language? Surely not, right? Then tell us very plainly if you can show us a complete and infallible Bible that you DO believe in."
Not gonna happen, is it Praus?
Perhaps later, at the moment I'm busy watching you worship KJV-onlyism. 
I hope you get a chance read Luke 14 in the NIV 2011, then you can see how the English language changed for the rest of us:
Luke 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. (KJV Pure Cambridge Edition)
Luke 14:10 But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests. (NIV 2011)
Time and time and time again I see KJV-onlyists use the word "perfect" to equivocate, or even replace, what Jesus did for us on the cross, with the King James Bible. Of course it's idolatry!
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; (KJV Pure Cambridge Edition)
Heb 9:11 11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. (NIV 2011)
Furthermore, the complete and infallible Bible for Christians is not any of the Messianic Jewish translations that you hold up as authoritative, I'll say that.
Christians don't use Messianic Jewish Bible translations for any kind of theological conclusions. Those are for textual comparison and entertaining reading, not for defending the King James Bible!
I hope you get a chance read Luke 14 in the NIV 2011, then you can see how the English language changed for the rest of us:Luke 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. (KJV Pure Cambridge Edition)
Luke 14:10 But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests. (NIV 2011)
Time and time and time again I see KJV-onlyists use the word "perfect" to equivocate, or even replace, what Jesus did for us on the cross, with the King James Bible. Of course it's idolatry!
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; (KJV Pure Cambridge Edition)
Heb 9:11 11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. (NIV 2011)
Furthermore, the complete and infallible Bible for Christians is not any of the Messianic Jewish translations that you hold up as authoritative, I'll say that.
Christians don't use Messianic Jewish Bible translations for any kind of theological conclusions. Those are for textual comparison and entertaining reading, not for defending the King James Bible!
If someone says that the KJV is purely of God and must be believed as directly from God with no men translating God's word, then he is making a man made idol to be worshipped and it is wrong. He is taking something man made and making something of God of it. That is what an idol is.
If he is reading this translation as the best he knows to understand what God is saying, but is willing to listen to God's voice rather than the translator's voice, then he is simply learning of God through the best translation he knows to use.
If he is reading this translation as the best he knows to understand what God is saying, but is willing to listen to God's voice rather than the translator's voice, then he is simply learning of God through the best translation he knows to use.
I use the KJ Bible because I choose to, I like it...........I also will use the Complete Jewish Bible from time to time, because I enjoy reading it as well.............I do not "worship" earthy things...........such as a particular translation of the Word of God, and people who accuse others of that are just silly in my opinion.
Was speaking in general to the question posed in the OP.......however, while none here may have made such a charge about folks who use the KJV Bible, I have heard and read such charges before.........just as I have heard and read negative comments about folks who use the NIV or other translations...........speaking in general to the idea posed in the title of the OP. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.
I was reaching for clarity. I sit with you, this conversation ONLY causes dissension and has extreme jerks on both sides of the topic.
Gal 5:19-21 says something about things that deliberately create division and factions. This topic applies. By Paul's words, it's an abomination of the flesh controlling the chat when this topic is created.
S
How can we consider a translation to be the inspired word of God? i don't understand. KJV is a good version, but that doesn't make it error free. It was not even translated from the original hebrew and greek scripture.
the translators have taken the same Greek word (aion, for instance), and translated it with six different English words—some with opposite meanings—or that their version contains a bona fide contradiction (compare Rev. 11:15 with 1 Cor. 15:25-28)
1Corintians says Jesus will reign till he put all his enemies under his feet and subject the kingdom and himself to God , so God will be all in all
Revelation says Jesus will reign for ever and ever.
Now is that not a contradiction? its because of the wrong translation. "aeions" does not mean forever or eternity. if it is then see these verses
Hb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world (greek word aeions) hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
in the end of the eternity??? they cudnt translate it that way, so they put " world". see Mt 24:3, Mt 13:39
Mt 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world (greek word aeions), and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
care of this eternity??? again traslated "world".
Lk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world (greek word aeions) began:
Eternity began??? Like this the
aeonian punishment became eternal punishment.
Gehenna wrongly translated as hell
ekklesia translated as church
lost translated to perish
and so many...for me these errors are enuf to understand that KJV is just a translation
The King James Bibles does not come with a "Thus saith the Lord: I pronounce the King James My last and final word in total accuracy." There were Bible translations in the early centuries after Christ, English translations in the 8th and 9th centuries, the 12th and 13th and 14th and 15th, BEFORE there was a King James, and there have been about 100 translations AFTER the King James. The King James is just another one of many translations. It is a good one, save for "eternal" and "hell fire." Correct those two ideas and it is a pretty good word.
the translators have taken the same Greek word (aion, for instance), and translated it with six different English words—some with opposite meanings—or that their version contains a bona fide contradiction (compare Rev. 11:15 with 1 Cor. 15:25-28)
1Corintians says Jesus will reign till he put all his enemies under his feet and subject the kingdom and himself to God , so God will be all in all
Revelation says Jesus will reign for ever and ever.
Now is that not a contradiction? its because of the wrong translation. "aeions" does not mean forever or eternity. if it is then see these verses
Hb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world (greek word aeions) hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
in the end of the eternity??? they cudnt translate it that way, so they put " world". see Mt 24:3, Mt 13:39
Mt 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world (greek word aeions), and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
care of this eternity??? again traslated "world".
Lk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world (greek word aeions) began:
Eternity began??? Like this the
aeonian punishment became eternal punishment.
Gehenna wrongly translated as hell
ekklesia translated as church
lost translated to perish
and so many...for me these errors are enuf to understand that KJV is just a translation
The King James Bibles does not come with a "Thus saith the Lord: I pronounce the King James My last and final word in total accuracy." There were Bible translations in the early centuries after Christ, English translations in the 8th and 9th centuries, the 12th and 13th and 14th and 15th, BEFORE there was a King James, and there have been about 100 translations AFTER the King James. The King James is just another one of many translations. It is a good one, save for "eternal" and "hell fire." Correct those two ideas and it is a pretty good word.
S
There is not even one translation i know which is complete and infallible.One would probably have to study Greek and Hebrew most of one's life before he would be qualified to "translate" Greek or Hebrew into any language. You can buy a Bible printed in Greek or almost any language on earth, on the Internet, but how would that help you?
I use a King James Bible because it is the most familiar bible on earth. And, it is a very good translation except for a few GROSS errors such as translating "aionios" into "eternal" or "everlasting," and few hundred other minor errors.
If you want to know what a Hebrew or Greek word was that the translators translated into English, you can buy a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. It will give you the Greek or Hebrew word or words, and their meaning in English. However, these work is not totally free from errors either. You have to work hard to know the truth instead of depending on one particular translation.Nearly 50,000 errors have been corrected thus far in the King James Translation. A few more dozen critical corrections (hell and eternal), and it will be a pretty good version.
I use a King James Bible because it is the most familiar bible on earth. And, it is a very good translation except for a few GROSS errors such as translating "aionios" into "eternal" or "everlasting," and few hundred other minor errors.
If you want to know what a Hebrew or Greek word was that the translators translated into English, you can buy a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. It will give you the Greek or Hebrew word or words, and their meaning in English. However, these work is not totally free from errors either. You have to work hard to know the truth instead of depending on one particular translation.Nearly 50,000 errors have been corrected thus far in the King James Translation. A few more dozen critical corrections (hell and eternal), and it will be a pretty good version.
S
If ur question was genuine! Some of the translations which do not use eternity for aeions
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible "...and He shall reign unto the ages of ages"
Emphatic Diaglot, with original Greek Text & Interlineary "...and He shall reign for [literally 'to' or 'into'] the AGES of the AGES"
Concordant Greek Text, Concordant Publishing Concern "...and He-will-be-reigning into the eons of-the eons"
Concordant Literal New Testament "...and He shall be reigning [Gk. aorist tense--indifinite] for [literally, 'into'] the eons of-the eonsj"
There are no perfect translations,but there are some good ones. One of the easiest to find in any good Bible
Book Store is, THE EMPHASIZED BIBLE By Rotherham. We have got to get out of our heads the idea of eternal torment, and eternal judgment,
and eternal damnation. You will not find a word of any such heresy in a good Bible translation. The Concordant Translation is another good one.
If you want to learn how a word is used "concordantly" in either the Greek New Testament or Hebrew Old Testament, you need to have THE
ENGLISHMAN'S HEBREW AND GREEK CONCORDANCE By Wigram (it comes in two volumes). This will show you how every word
in the Bible is used in all the Scriptures in which that particular word is used.
Also get a copy of STRONG'S EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE BY Dr. James Strong. This will show you were to find every word in the King
James Bible. You can use this in conjunction with Wigram's seeing that his two volume concordance is based on Dr. Strong's Concordance.
If you have a computer, your very best Bible aid will be e-Sword. It is FREE, and can be downloaded from the INTERNET.
Although not essential, there are times when a good Bible Dictionary can be extremely helpful. I would recommend VINES Concise Dictionary of Bible Words, or WYCLIFFE'S Bible Dictionary.
God bless u
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible "...and He shall reign unto the ages of ages"
Emphatic Diaglot, with original Greek Text & Interlineary "...and He shall reign for [literally 'to' or 'into'] the AGES of the AGES"
Concordant Greek Text, Concordant Publishing Concern "...and He-will-be-reigning into the eons of-the eons"
Concordant Literal New Testament "...and He shall be reigning [Gk. aorist tense--indifinite] for [literally, 'into'] the eons of-the eonsj"
There are no perfect translations,but there are some good ones. One of the easiest to find in any good Bible
Book Store is, THE EMPHASIZED BIBLE By Rotherham. We have got to get out of our heads the idea of eternal torment, and eternal judgment,
and eternal damnation. You will not find a word of any such heresy in a good Bible translation. The Concordant Translation is another good one.
If you want to learn how a word is used "concordantly" in either the Greek New Testament or Hebrew Old Testament, you need to have THE
ENGLISHMAN'S HEBREW AND GREEK CONCORDANCE By Wigram (it comes in two volumes). This will show you how every word
in the Bible is used in all the Scriptures in which that particular word is used.
Also get a copy of STRONG'S EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE BY Dr. James Strong. This will show you were to find every word in the King
James Bible. You can use this in conjunction with Wigram's seeing that his two volume concordance is based on Dr. Strong's Concordance.
If you have a computer, your very best Bible aid will be e-Sword. It is FREE, and can be downloaded from the INTERNET.
Although not essential, there are times when a good Bible Dictionary can be extremely helpful. I would recommend VINES Concise Dictionary of Bible Words, or WYCLIFFE'S Bible Dictionary.
God bless u
If a person does not understand while reading the KJV, give it a rest, there are many translations of the Word, and one should be suited for him. I do not take away from the faith of those who read other versions. My primary reading is usually the KJV, but I am just as content with the Standard versions, the Catholic, the Spanish, the French, the Hebrew etc. If the Holy Spirit does not teach, it does not matter what version of the Word is being read, it will not be understood. KJV is fine, and as for idolaters, what????
Read the Word, believe it, and worship our Father in Yeshua.............Jesus...
Read the Word, believe it, and worship our Father in Yeshua.............Jesus...
Hi Tannar. As I pointed out in the article,( if you actually read it, you should have seen it), this silly charge of us KJB believers is always brought up by those who do NOT believe that ANY Bible in any language is the infallible words of God so that they can feel better about themselves and justify their own unbelief in the inerrancy of the Bible. Surely you are not one of "those people", right? So kindly tell us exactly which Bible if any do YOU believe IS the complete and infallible words of God? Will you do that for us? Thanks.
Hi Praus, I notice that you are still dodging the question. Do you or do you not have an infallible Bible? It seems that you, like James White, will never tell us the name of this infallible Bible you apparently want us to think you believe in. By the way, I notice you keep posting Luke 14:10. Are you claiming that this is an error in the King James Bible or did you just pick up that example from some other bible agnostic, who in his ignorance of the English language, happens to think the KJB is in error?
Basic question - Can you show us a copy of your "infallible Bible" or are you just another unbeliever in the inerrancy of the Bible pretending to be a Bible believer? Thanks.
Basic question - Can you show us a copy of your "infallible Bible" or are you just another unbeliever in the inerrancy of the Bible pretending to be a Bible believer? Thanks.
I use the KJ Bible because I choose to, I like it...........I also will use the Complete Jewish Bible from time to time, because I enjoy reading it as well.............I do not "worship" earthy things...........such as a particular translation of the Word of God, and people who accuse others of that are just silly in my opinion.
Hi Tannar. You are right. He is not an idolater. He is just another Christian who does NOT believe that ANY Bible is the infallible words of God, like you are. Not an idolater; just a confused unbeliever in a real, between two covers, hold it in your hands and believe every word is the infallible words of God. It seems you guys are calling anyone who actually believes we DO have an infallible Bible and can tell anyone else where to get a copy of it - namely, King James Bible believers - are idolaters. Just as I stated in the article. You fellas are just confirming the truth of what I stated.
Hi Sana. Thanks for the confirmation that you are not only an unbeliever in the inerrancy of the Bible but it looks like you are also just flat out an unbeliever.
No wonder you guys hate the King James Bible so much. The teaching of an everlasting hell is something that apparently makes you very uncomfortable.
No wonder you guys hate the King James Bible so much. The teaching of an everlasting hell is something that apparently makes you very uncomfortable.
Hi JaumeJ. But you don't believe that ANY of those multiple choice, contradictory versions are God's infallible words. This is the problem. The polls are showing that the Majority of present day Christians no longer believe in the inerrancy of the Bible (ANY Bible) and they are reading, studying and believing them less and less. And these polls are not done by KJB believers.
Here are what the polls are saying.
"The Bible is not the inspired, inerrant and 100% historically true words of God"
“If we would destroy the Christian religion, we must first of all destroy man’s belief in the Bible.” Voltaire (French philosopher and former atheist 1694-1778 - He now knows better)
Most Christians today do NOT believe The Bible IS the inerrant word of God.
The Bible NOT inspired - Another King James Bible Believer
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8
"But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 1 Cor. 14:38
Here are what the polls are saying.
"The Bible is not the inspired, inerrant and 100% historically true words of God"
“If we would destroy the Christian religion, we must first of all destroy man’s belief in the Bible.” Voltaire (French philosopher and former atheist 1694-1778 - He now knows better)
Most Christians today do NOT believe The Bible IS the inerrant word of God.
The Bible NOT inspired - Another King James Bible Believer
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8
"But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 1 Cor. 14:38
There is nothing touched by mankind that is not spoiled in one manner or another. The KJV as any other version of the Word is not perfect, including the original Hebrew/Aramaic texts, since it is a known fact that many of the words employed in them were lost through the centuries in the sense of their actual meaning.
It is only the Holy Spirit Who gives understanding. As I read in Hebrew or any other language in my quest to learn more of the Word of our Father, the only light shed is the proving of what is already learned by means of the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is leading an individual, he will obtain the truth from a Betty Crocker cook book, be it our Father's will.
None of Yahweh's children seize the truth for it is the same as salvation, it is a gift to be received how and as it is given. Anyone who believes his way is better than Yahweh's has much to learn, and he will providing he follows the Lamb of Yahweh.
It is only the Holy Spirit Who gives understanding. As I read in Hebrew or any other language in my quest to learn more of the Word of our Father, the only light shed is the proving of what is already learned by means of the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is leading an individual, he will obtain the truth from a Betty Crocker cook book, be it our Father's will.
None of Yahweh's children seize the truth for it is the same as salvation, it is a gift to be received how and as it is given. Anyone who believes his way is better than Yahweh's has much to learn, and he will providing he follows the Lamb of Yahweh.