Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

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SarahM777

SarahM777

Banned
#581
Dec 26, 2012
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#581
UMMM Silly question but haven't some of us been asking this same question?

1 Corinthians 14

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church :confused:
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#582
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#582
So C'mon cessationists!
When has that which is perfect come?
You said the canon was it, now you say the Holy Spirit.
If it was the canon why the approx. two thousand denominations? - (If we currently see God face to face)
If it is the Holy Spirit, why don't you believe His gifts to the church?

You say you believe.
What do you believe?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#583
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#583
presidente said:
Zone, I don't believe we will be handcuffed to partners on the day of judgment, but if we did, I might choose to be handcuffed to Jeffry Dahmer over some of the cessationist posters in this thread. At least Dahmer reportedly repented and was baptized. Murder, cannibalism, and homosexual behavior are not unpardonable sins.

Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God. But certain of his opponents said he was doing so by the prince of devils. The Lord warned them that whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or in the world to come. He did not qualify it saying that it had to be done in ignorance or when he was physically present.

I am concerned when cessationists claim that all miracles being done are demonic, or all speaking in tongues, or all prophesying. There may be demonic versions of all these things going on, but such words condemn the works of the Spirit as well, and may be accusing the Holy Spirit of being a demon as well.

The context where Christ addressed this issue had to do with accusing the Spirit who was working through Christ of being a demon. But it may be possible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming that a demon is the Holy Spirit, and we need to take care in that regard as well. Some Muslim apologetists would call Muhammad of being the comforter Jesus prophesied about. (Perhaps unaware that they are doing what their own religion calls 'shirk'). Irenaeus considered calling a man the paraklete to be irremissible.
Click to expand...

"But it may be possible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming that a demon is the Holy Spirit, and we need to take care in that regard as well"

you figure it out.
any possibility cessationists are right?

if they are, you are in A LOT OF TROUBLE.

if they are not, let's see the real thing. when are you going to PRODUCE?

since WHEN are we ever called to NOT test the spirits?

i'm not called to believe every man or woman that comes along claiming to have direct revelation.

"all miracles being done are demonic, or all speaking in tongues, or all prophesying. There may be demonic versions of all these things going on"

all miracles are demonic? this is just more nonsense.

you are not reading about the miracles in Scripture.

and how are you going to know the difference - DON'T YOU KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT YET?

are tongues human languages OR NOT. don't you know YET?

what prophesying? WHERE?

all the prophets are in scripture.
when are you going to focus on what THEY SAID?
 
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zone

zone

Senior Member
#584
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#584
RickShafer said:
So C'mon cessationists!
When has that which is perfect come?
You said the canon was it, now you say the Holy Spirit.
If it was the canon why the approx. two thousand denominations? - (If we currently see God face to face)
If it is the Holy Spirit, why don't you believe His gifts to the church?

You say you believe.
What do you believe?
Click to expand...
i totally believe gifts were given to the church.
we have the Bible today as a result of it.

read it sometime.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#585
#585
Would you, Zone, go as far to call Azusa street a demonic outpouring?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#587
#587
Zone, be careful, Thousands of people were saved as a result, the Assembly of God is a result and the Church of God, and the church of God in Christ, and the full Gospel church and the four square church and the congregational holiness church. The fruit of that revival points to an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Was Smiths wigglesworth demon possessed? A.A. Allen? Spurgeon, C.M. Ward? How bout the founders of TBN. Their fruit shows other wise.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#588
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#588
zone said:
i totally believe gifts were given to the church.
we have the Bible today as a result of it.

read it sometime.
Click to expand...
Behold the hard heart.

A perfect, though simplistic, example.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#589
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#589
Kerry said:
Zone, be careful, Thousands of people were saved as a result, the Assembly of God is a result and the Church of God, and the church of God in Christ, and the full Gospel church and the four square church and the congregational holiness church. The fruit of that revival points to an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Was Smiths wigglesworth demon possessed? A.A. Allen? Spurgeon, C.M. Ward? How bout the founders of TBN. Their fruit shows other wise.
Click to expand...
saved AS A RESULT?
of what?

if they were saved, it was through the Gospel.

"the Assembly of God is a result and the Church of God, and the church of God in Christ, and the full Gospel church and the four square church and the congregational holiness church."

and?

"The fruit of that revival points to an outpouring of the Holy Spirit."

does it?

"How bout the founders of TBN. Their fruit shows other wise"

kerry - i don't know what to say.
repent. be forgiven.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#590
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#590
RickShafer said:
Behold the hard heart.

A perfect, though simplistic, example.
Click to expand...
hard heart?
why...because i don't believe you're a prophet?
i like you just fine.
it's not going to make me cast aside the truth for nonsense.
intimidate away - no sale.

if you think all that is The Lord at work, that's for you to deal with.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#591
#591
zone said:
saved AS A RESULT?
of what?

if they were saved, it was through the Gospel.

"the Assembly of God is a result and the Church of God, and the church of God in Christ, and the full Gospel church and the four square church and the congregational holiness church."

and?

"The fruit of that revival points to an outpouring of the Holy Spirit."

does it?

"How bout the founders of TBN. Their fruit shows other wise"

kerry - i don't know what to say.
repent. be forgiven.
Click to expand...
You are correct, yet they spoke in tongues. Not hardly something a demon would do. Saved by a demon preaching the gospel? They do not promote the gospel. A house dived against itself cannot stand.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#592
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#592
Me - Red
zone said:
hard heart?
why...because i don't believe you're a prophet? I never said I was
i like you just fine.
it's not going to make me cast aside the truth for nonsense. O.K., when did the gifts end?
intimidate away - no sale. Who's selling anything?

if you think all that is The Lord at work, that's for you to deal with. I never said that, it was you that claim the gifts in every case have ended
Click to expand...
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#593
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#593
Kerry said:
You are correct, yet they spoke in tongues. Not hardly something a demon would do. Saved by a demon preaching the gospel? They do not promote the gospel. A house dived against itself cannot stand.
Click to expand...
who spoke in tongues?

one last time kerry - were "tongues" in Acts & 1st century churches KNOWN HUMAN LANGUAGES?

if you do not know the answer to this, you're in real trouble.

seriously.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#594
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#594
RickShafer said:
Me - Red
zone said:
hard heart?
why...because i don't believe you're a prophet? I never said I was
i like you just fine.
it's not going to make me cast aside the truth for nonsense. O.K., when did the gifts end?
intimidate away - no sale. Who's selling anything?

if you think all that is The Lord at work, that's for you to deal with. I never said that, it was you that claim the gifts in every case have ended
Click to expand...
prove they haven't or we have nothing more to discuss.
you don't know what they were - so how can you possibly claim you recognize them today.

night.
Click to expand...
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#595
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#595
zone said:
RickShafer said:
Me - Red


prove they haven't or we have nothing more to discuss. What????
you don't know what they were - so how can you possibly claim you recognize them today. Try reading I Cor.12:4-14

night.
Click to expand...
All I am asking you to do is show me through scripture when the gifts of the Holy Spirit that were given to the church have ended?
Click to expand...
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#596
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#596
C'mon Zone......I'm trying to get you to show me when the gifts have ceased. (Using the Canon)
- -It should be an easy thing for a cessationist to do. (Since the scripture is plain and inerrant)
- - - C'mon........show me please.

(.....Do I have to make your argument for you?.....)
 
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zone

zone

Senior Member
#597
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#597
RickShafer said:
All I am asking you to do is show me through scripture when the gifts of the Holy Spirit that were given to the church have ended?
Click to expand...
when the church matured enough to do without childish things and partial gifts...to obey the simple Gospel; turn from sin and make disciples.

that boring stuff.

the Divine Spirit & the God-Breathed Scriptures have been cast aside for second rate somethings.
what has that to do with maturity? is it the Lord's fault people like getting drunk in the spirit(s)?


1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.

go ahead and rehash what you think is my "case".

when you're done, produce anything approaching what i read of in Acts.
i'll wait (not)
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#598
#598
So the Church has matured so that it no longer needs the Holy Spirit. The comforter, The Paraclete. The church no longer needs Him. Man has a complete handle on things because of the word. You cannot understand the word without the Holy Spirit. Why did the Holy Spirit record the situation when Elijah was building a school of the prophets and one of the students lost the head of an axe in the river. Explain, I hope that you can and will be grateful if you can.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#599
#599
While your searching. I will tell you what the Holy Spirit showed me, as I have read it many times and did not understand. The axe head was borrowed and the student could not repay for the loss. I know that today axe heads are nothing you can buy for one 7 bucks. But, in his day they were hand made and expensive. So he had a debt that he could not pay. He said to Elijah or was it Elisha I always get them mixed up. Never the less, he said throw in the stick and the axe head did float. The wooden stick represented the cross and restored that which had been lost. We need the Holy Spirit and by no means have outgrown Him and He is just as active as He was in Paul's day and in the beginning. He is God and He changes not. Don't trust in man, trust in God. Did a demon heal my mother in law of brain cancer, did a demon heal my mother of stroke, did a demon heal me of asthma. I think not and I, my mother in law and, mt mother speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. Nothing has ceased accept the teaching of man and their unwillingness to accept the move of God.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#600
Sep 8, 2012
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#600
zone said:
when the church matured enough to do without childish things and partial gifts (Where is the word 'partial')...to obey the simple Gospel; turn from sin and make disciples. ( Wait a minute.....David and many others trusted upon the grace of God well before the atonement.....and found it)

that boring stuff.

the Divine Spirit & the God-Breathed Scriptures have been cast aside for second rate somethings.(Then you can show me where)
what has that to do with maturity? is it the Lord's fault people like getting drunk in the spirit(s)? (I agree, you should show me where those infantile demon's are profaning the gifts of the Holy Spirit.........because they have ended as was pronounced in the Canon)


1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. (Wait.......did Paul write that before or after he gave his head?)

go ahead and rehash what you think is my "case". (I would if I could make sense of it)

when you're done, produce anything approaching what i read of in Acts.
i'll wait (not)
Click to expand...
How can I be done when you haven't even started?
How can I state my case unless you first state yours using scripture.
- Unless that was just it?
- - That is your idea of 'face to face'? That was it? C'mon, you can do better than that.
- - - There are much more alluring verses to settle unto, to divide, and parse and misuse.
- - - - I can't believe that was the only one you referenced? So you are saying because the canon is given and decided upon by a catholic council, that you(as a Lutheran) subscribe wholly and only to it?
- - - You may think you do, but you most assuredly don't. - Please read I Cor. 12 4-14. Where does that fit in seeing as it is part if the epistle(teaching) canon?

 
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