Attack of the seventh day adventists

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Sep 4, 2012
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Well I would say Christ to answer your last question although the 10 commandments aren't Moses's law. They're actually Christ's
No, Christ didn't call the law of Moses his law. Speaking to the pharisees, he called it your law.

And even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. John 8:17

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? John 10:34


The law of Moses was for those under the old covenant born of the first Adam.

The law of Christ is for those under the new covenant born of the last Adam.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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If you keep the first four then this is how to love God
The last six is how you love your neighbor.

John 14: 15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

The one who has faith in Christ has fulfilled all righteousness required by the first four commandments.

The one who loves his neighbor as himself has fulfilled all righteousness required by the last 6 commandments.

There is no law against love...
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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No, Christ didn't call the law of Moses his law. Speaking to the pharisees, he called it your law.

And even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. John 8:17

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? John 10:34


The law of Moses was for those under the old covenant born of the first Adam.

The law of Christ is for those under the new covenant born of the last Adam.
the pharisees made their own law called the Talmud or "oral law"

come on really.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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The one who has faith in Christ has fulfilled all righteousness required by the first four commandments.

The one who loves his neighbor as himself has fulfilled all righteousness required by the last 6 commandments.

There is no law against love...
how do you love?

what ever a human can make up? or is there instructuion or directions somewhere that tell us how to love?

please at least answer 2 questions please question:
(you and any who take this stance of hating 10 or more Commandments)

whay would Yahshua say "get away from Me you who practice iniquity."

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your "Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

Iniquity is Word #458 from word #459, Greek Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning not subject to (Yahweh's) Laws, transgressor.

and what does this mean?

Revelation 22:12-15, "12
And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; 13I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last. 14Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; 15and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie."
 
Sep 4, 2012
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the pharisees made their own law called the Talmud or "oral law"

come on really.

Was what Jesus said part of the oral law?


  • And even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. John 8:17

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Deuteronomy 19:15



  • Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? John 10:34

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Psalms 82:6



come on really.
 
Sep 6, 2013
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The one who has faith in Christ has fulfilled all righteousness required by the first four commandments.

The one who loves his neighbor as himself has fulfilled all righteousness required by the last 6 commandments.

There is no law against love...
There's no argument there. We know abiding in love is key to a relationship with Christ.
My thing is don't say you love me then do things that dishonor me.
‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Matthew 15:8,9
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Was what Jesus said part of the oral law?


  • And even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. John 8:17

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Deuteronomy 19:15



  • Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? John 10:34

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Psalms 82:6



come on really.
Genesis 3:22, "Then Yahweh said: Behold, the man has become like ione who has begun to know righteousness and evil. And now, he must not be allowed to put out his hand and also take of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever."

You have to understand how twisted the Pharisees were or you will never understand Yahshua's dealings with them:

Talmud - Mas. Baba Metzia 59b

We learnt elsewhere: If he cut it into separate tiles, placing sand between each tile: R. Eliezer declared it clean, and the Sages declared it unclean; and this was the oven of ‘Aknai.1 Why [the oven of] ‘Aknai? — Said Rab Judah in Samuel's name: [It means] that they encompassed it with arguments2 as a snake, and proved it unclean. It has been taught: On that day R. Eliezer brought forward every imaginable argument ,3 but they did not accept them. Said he to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let this carob-tree prove it!’ Thereupon the carob-tree was torn a hundred cubits out of its place — others affirm, four hundred cubits. ‘No proof can be brought from a carob-tree,’ they retorted. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the stream of water prove it!’ Whereupon the stream of water flowed backwards — ‘No proof can be brought from a stream of water,’ they rejoined. Again he urged: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the walls of the schoolhouse prove it,’ whereupon the walls inclined to fall. But R. Joshua rebuked them, saying: ‘When scholars are engaged in a halachic dispute, what have ye to interfere?’ Hence they did not fall, in honour of R. Joshua, nor did they resume the upright, in honour of R. Eliezer; and they are still standing thus inclined. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let it be proved from Heaven!’ Whereupon a Heavenly Voice cried out: ‘Why do ye dispute with R. Eliezer, seeing that in all matters the halachah agrees with him!’ But R. Joshua arose and exclaimed: ‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice, because Thou hast long since written in the Torah at Mount Sinai, After the majority must one incline.5R. Nathan met Elijah6 and asked him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do in that hour? — He laughed [with joy], he replied, saying, ‘My sons have defeated Me, My sons have defeated Me.’ It was said: On that day all objects which R. Eliezer had declared clean were brought and burnt in fire.7 Then they took a vote and excommunicated him.

Every translation reads as such, as all Greek texts read this way:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

However Yahweh has left us truth!

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

THIS IS THE BURDEN!

The "rabbis" interpret Scripture by something called Midrashic interpretation, which ignores language and ignores context. They say Scripture is a divne code and only the rabbis have the knowledge to decipher that divine code. Here is an ACTUAL example of Midrashic interpretation used by the rabbis:

They take Exodus 23:2, "Do not follow the crowd in doing evil. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd."

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "follow the crowd."

Thus even when one disagrees or knows something is wrong he must, "follow the crowd," or as the Talmud puts it in Baba Metzia 59b (top of post), "after the majority must one incline."

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:
And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:8-9, "These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

This is still prevalent in modern religion.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Was what Jesus said part of the oral law?


  • And even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. John 8:17

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Deuteronomy 19:15



  • Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? John 10:34

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Psalms 82:6



come on really.
Psalm 82:6-7, "I have said: You are gods you sons of the Most High; And like Adam you will die. Just like all the other rulers, you will fall."

Genesis 3:22, "Then Yahweh said: Behold, the man has become like ione who has begun to know righteousness and evil. And now, he must not be allowed to put out his hand and also take of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever."

they have chosen THEIR OWN WAY AND WILL NOT SUBMIT THEMSELVES TO YAHWEH'S WAY, they took the Laws of Yahweh and ALTERED them, Yahshua having known the Law well picked them apart over and over, but againif you dont really know what the talmud and rabbinical teaching syas, you will NEVER fully understand Yahshua's dealings with them. I misunderstood these verses for YEARS, and the theological cenetaries take advantage of this as their Lawless doctrine fits perfectly and Yahshua's dealings whith the Pharisees can be used as a witness against Yahweh instead of what Yahshua really spoke against THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN!

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:
And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mark 7:7-9, "But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men! Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you
may keep your own tradition!"

Mattithyah 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

When Yahshua tured water into wine He was breaking pharisee law by what He did, HE DID IT ON PURPOSE.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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Jesus fulfilled the Seventh Day Sabbath of God, when He fulfilled Passover.
He was in Sheol, on that last Sabbath, in 'Abraham's Bosom';
with the faithful Dead of Old Covenant Israel.
With all of those who were to keep this Sabbath until Messiah,
they were finally allowed to enter in and were sealed in Christ Jesus.
Jesus was Resurrected the next day; He is the true Sabbath,
the true Israel, the New Creation, the new or 2nd Adam.

These Sabbath cults lead their flocks to the pit!
You cannot set forth to fulfill any 7th day Sabbath,
or you just destroy the work of Jesus and the Cross.

Hebrews 4: ....1) ...Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His Rest.......10)...for he who has entered HIS REST has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.....11)....let us therefore be diligent to enter the rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience...........
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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Jesus fulfilled the Seventh Day Sabbath of God, when He fulfilled Passover.
He was in Sheol, on that last Sabbath, in 'Abraham's Bosom';
with the faithful Dead of Old Covenant Israel.
With all of those who were to keep this Sabbath until Messiah,
they were finally allowed to enter in and were sealed in Christ Jesus.
Jesus was Resurrected the next day; He is the true Sabbath,
the true Israel, the New Creation, the new or 2nd Adam.

These Sabbath cults lead their flocks to the pit!
You cannot set forth to fulfill any 7th day Sabbath,
or you just destroy the work of Jesus and the Cross.

Hebrews 4: ....1) ...Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His Rest.......10)...for he who has entered HIS REST has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.....11)....let us therefore be diligent to enter the rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience...........
So dedicating an entire day to Yahweh on the day He says to is EVIL? OK

SCRITURE SAYS DIFFERENT

*Sign is Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

Exodus 31:13-17, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy"....16-17, "Therefore the children of Israyl shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israyl forever, for in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, and on the Seventh Day He rested and was refreshed."

Ezekiel 20:12, "Moreover, I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a *sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies them."

maybe you want the "mark" from someone other than Yahweh, I dont, I will follow Yahweh as our example Yahshua did.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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This would have to be your interpretation along with others of the same ilk. Until Yeshua says not to obey the Commandments, I will continue seeing the difference. This does not mean I condemn anyone who shares your opinion.

1) In the bible, I fail to see any difference between a Commandment and a law. Both are being required by God.

2) God's moral laws are forever. The ceremonial laws given to Moses are obsolete under the new covenant. Those laws were a foreshadow of things to come.

3) The Sabbath and other ceremonial laws are under the old covenant. The are perfunctory. If you keep one of those laws then you are guilty of breaking the ones you do not keep. That is why James said:



If you keep the law of the Sabbath, then you must obey all the other laws. There is no such thing as partially obey the law! Those who are obeying the law, in part or in full are severed from Christ and no longer under grace. (Gal 5:4) This is why it is dangerous to obey the Sabbath or any of the ceremonial laws of Moses, as a law or command of God.
 
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danschance

Guest
This would have to be your interpretation along with others of the same ilk. Until Yeshua says not to obey the Commandments, I will continue seeing the difference. This does not mean I condemn anyone who shares your opinion.

Col. 2: 16 mean anything to you? That says do not let other's judge you in what you eat or drink.

How about the vision Peter had where God told him to kill and eat unclean animals? It seems very clear to me that God Himself has done away with all Jewish dietary requirements.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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You do realize we are in complete agreement here? What do the Laws have to do with the Commandments? Again, when our Savior teaches us to disregard the Commandments, I will hear Him. Until then, they are not a burden to those who love Him.

I posted in Christian Basics this morning with a more complete explanation of the difference between what many call Jewish Law and the Commandments, post 140. I realize referring you to another posts of mine may be takn as being proud, but it deals directly with this issue at hand, so do not feel obliged to pay attention to what I have posted elsewhere, not that I believe anyone would.

Col. 2: 16 mean anything to you? That says do not let other's judge you in what you eat or drink.


How about the vision Peter had where God told him to kill and eat unclean animals? It seems very clear to me that God Himself has done away with all Jewish dietary requirements.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Col. 2: 16 mean anything to you? That says do not let other's judge you in what you eat or drink.

How about the vision Peter had where God told him to kill and eat unclean animals? It seems very clear to me that God Himself has done away with all Jewish dietary requirements.
Brother, if you keep reading you will se in v28, it is about MAN not food, the dream was a metaphor:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

If it wasnt for this dream Kepha would have most likely not went to this gentile mans house to preach.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
doesn't change the fact that Peter still ate food that he thought was unclean by Torah Law, even if the symbolism goes deeper than the food.

he ATE with Gentiles and ATE their FOOD which was NOT kosher.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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doesn't change the fact that Peter still ate food that he thought was unclean by Torah Law, even if the symbolism goes deeper than the food.

he ATE with Gentiles and ATE their FOOD which was NOT kosher.
where does it say Cornelius had unclean food? it may but i do not recall it, also Cornelius was called righteous, I assume he knew the OT but had not yet come to fully know Yahshua, so its likely that he ate food, not natures garbage disposals.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Mark 2:27

Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Genesis 2:3

At this point in Genesis there was no Jew or gentile. The sabbath wasn't an ordinance of Moses it was sanctified at creation.

So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Acts 13:42

On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. Acts 13:44

Keep in mind Paul was a gentile.

Hope this helps


Keep in mind Paul was a gentile.................EXCUSE ME.......Paul was a Jew and a Roman citizen. What Word of God do you read?
 
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danschance

Guest
You do realize we are in complete agreement here? What do the Laws have to do with the Commandments? Again, when our Savior teaches us to disregard the Commandments, I will hear Him. Until then, they are not a burden to those who love Him.

I posted in Christian Basics this morning with a more complete explanation of the difference between what many call Jewish Law and the Commandments, post 140. I realize referring you to another posts of mine may be takn as being proud, but it deals directly with this issue at hand, so do not feel obliged to pay attention to what I have posted elsewhere, not that I believe anyone would.
Again, I don't see any difference between a law of God and a Comandment of God.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I would like you to meditate on the difference between living in grace, that is, free of the curse of the law, and lawlessness. You may have to refer to the Word on each topic, but one does not allow for the other if we believe Yeshua.

Again, I don't see any difference between a law of God and a Comandment of God.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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I would like you to meditate on the difference between living in grace, that is, free of the curse of the law, and lawlessness. You may have to refer to the Word on each topic, but one does not allow for the other if we believe Yeshua.
What is the curse of the Law other than the death penalty?