Are catholics Christian?

[homwardbound]

your making no sense to me, ?
your way of thinking is not mine, and if your trying to get me to come round to your way of thinking, its not going to happen. sorry but your post is to much of you you you. to much drama for me. what your saying is just another trick that protestants use i have herd it so many times from protestants who claim to be christian, painting who they like with the same brush.

Sorry, you misunderstand, and I am not Protestant nor any religion here on earth. For God's Kingdom is not here on earth as scripture is clear on this when he had Peter pout down his sword and restored that man's ear that was there to take Christ away to the religious leaders of that day.
Religion is a self effort work at trying to be approved, a flesh work, where we get pats on the back from others, convincing us that we are doing God's work, when in many cases we are not, been there done that. Not anymore
For I have no righteousness of my own and never will ever.
I do have righteousness though, but it is not mine, it is God's and God's alone. God by belief in God has made me a partaker in this. Again it is not mine it is God's only
As Christ said why call me good for their is only one good and that is my Father. Whom through his death, which is our death to self, gives us life through the resurrection, where God through one's belief brings one to new life in God's Spirit
Read Romans 6, real clear about the warfare of flesh and God's Spirit, and that God through Baptism, (Holy Ghost) we are dead to sinful flesh and made alive, born again in God's Spirit by God doing this through us believing God, Not at all, by any self efforts.
No flesh in God's sight will please God, only flesh that ever has is Christ's.

Romans 8 as well is very clear on the problem of flesh fighting against God's Spirit
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So since all sin has been condemned to flesh how is it to be, the only to worship God then?
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Does not truth need to be pondered to be set free from bondage and be a doer of the word?
Separating flesh form Spirit, God's?

 

[homwardbound]

I'm guessing you don't like the Catholic Church

I not sure that is what he was saying, I got that there are things in there are not truth as in other religions also, and in each there are those that do believe and have stayed there for reasons that we do not know or understand. But will one day. Anyway that is what I saw being said

 

[homwardbound]

This is just a discussion, as you can see eventhough homwardbound compared me to a serpent, i still gave him the chance to answer the question which he avoided/ deny.

By the way, do you have the list of how you worship your god and how you honor mary?

I only saw what was being said and stated exactly that, and said whether you know it or not. That this what is being conveyed to me.
And you instead seem to have taken offense as if I accused you, when in fact I did not.
It is not always easy to communicate Love of God that he has for us all.
Never meant any offense to you personally, and I think or hoping for you to see this clearly now.

 

[homwardbound]

that is true i agree, and this is where there is much confusion and a true catholic would agree with you to. like me, but a bad doctrined christian who gets info of the net would not, i think youll find the internet is a breeding ground for conspiracy theorists.

Mary is seen as the queen of the saints by one, and just simply the mother of Jesus god, and both , vise verso, but both mainly have pictures and statues of her as a holy symbol that is all, and it is the individual who takes it further and not the church,

So you are stating that, you have no one before Christ then, is this correct?

 

[homwardbound]

ok have you ever wondered why the saints collect prayers ?????

well this is the way i see it ,,the lord tells us how to pray, remember in the old testement god said i am sick of your burnt offerings and i detest the smell, ? well there you go the lord detests the wrong type of prayer. the lord does not want to hear the wrong prayer day in an day out so the saints intervene for him, they probaly all get wittnessed, and some make it to the farther, or some maybe get put of an not answered straight away, can you imagine how many prayes a day there must be, maybe billions upon billion, (so we have a prayer bank waiting to be colleted by the saints, (remember the bible tells the lord as legions of angels,


like in the old testement moses was dealing with every single problem of what the people had done , until it was decided that the priests underneath him delt with silly petty stuff an moses dealt with the big stuff, (make sense) ?

fellowship in truth is to me important, thanks, and let us all continue to love each other as God has shown us all through Son Christ.

 

[homwardbound]

actually i think actions (works) go togeather with faith, but yeah just another twisted protestant doctrine that you believe, more fool you ,

The ? would then here be?
What produces works?
What produces Faith?

 

[homwardbound]

Faith Without Works Is Dead James 2:14-26



[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][a][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][b][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][d][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also

Yep, and what causes works? Did Abraham do the works first and then got Faith or was it his Faith, (belief) that brought forth the works, because he believed God and trusted God?

 

[Quickfire]

why catholic priests do confession (or a nother word for priest is deciples) as priests have give up there entire life to the lord, (they are known as deciples also.)

John 20:19-29
Jesus Appears to the Disciples
19 That Sunday evening, the disciples were together behind locked doors because they were afraid of the Jews. Jesus stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you!” 20 When he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples were glad to see the Lord.
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you.” 22 After he had said this, he breathed on the disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 Whenever you forgive sins, they are forgiven. Whenever you don’t forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Thomas, one of the twelve apostles, who was called Didymus, wasn’t with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples told him, “We’ve seen the Lord.”
Thomas told them, “I refuse to believe this unless I see the nail marks in his hands, put my fingers into them, and put my hand into his side.”
26 A week later Jesus’ disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Even though the doors were locked, Jesus stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Take your hand, and put it into my side. Stop doubting, and believe.”
28 Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to Thomas, “You believe because you’ve seen me. Blessed are those who haven’t seen me but believe.”


ok read from 21 Jesus breaths on his decipes and says recieve the holy spirit and says when ever you forgive sins they are forgiven, when ever you do not forgive they are not forgiven

 

[homwardbound]

hmmm i wonder if thats why matyn luther wanted the the book of james kicked out of the bible

Much misunderstanding has come from this between Paul and James.
so the ? is what produces works? Faith in God (belief) or self effort as many do without seeing this.
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 4:17 (as it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

I do not see James separating Faith as if it is works that brings Faith. Rather it is Faith (belief) in God that brings forth works, as is shown clearly in Hebrews 11. Faith first comes, then works follow.

 

[Quickfire]

The ? would then here be?
What produces works?
What produces Faith?

think i have explained that well enough, thankyou

 

[homwardbound]

why catholic priests do confession (or a nother word for priest is deciples) as priests have give up there entire life to the lord, (they are known as deciples also.)

John 20:19-29
Jesus Appears to the Disciples
19 That Sunday evening, the disciples were together behind locked doors because they were afraid of the Jews. Jesus stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you!” 20 When he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples were glad to see the Lord.
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you.” 22 After he had said this, he breathed on the disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 Whenever you forgive sins, they are forgiven. Whenever you don’t forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Thomas, one of the twelve apostles, who was called Didymus, wasn’t with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples told him, “We’ve seen the Lord.”
Thomas told them, “I refuse to believe this unless I see the nail marks in his hands, put my fingers into them, and put my hand into his side.”
26 A week later Jesus’ disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Even though the doors were locked, Jesus stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Take your hand, and put it into my side. Stop doubting, and believe.”
28 Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to Thomas, “You believe because you’ve seen me. Blessed are those who haven’t seen me but believe.”


ok read from 21 Jesus breaths on his decipes and says recieve the holy spirit and says when ever you forgive sins they are forgiven, when ever you do not forgive they are not forgiven

And Christ said forgive them Father for they know not what hey do. This is what has transcended onto me, and I think the disciples of then as well. Then came the Holy Ghost 10 days later after he ascended on high. And they preached truth to the people in those peoples languages and 3,000 were saved that day. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can anyone hold anyone's sin(s) against anyone, when God has by his Son, Christ forgiven all our sins and made us thus to Father through his death at the cross:
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[homwardbound]

think i have explained that well enough, thankyou

I was not claiming that you have not, and thank you back, am not here to bash at all

 

[Quickfire]

And Christ said forgive them Father for they know not what hey do. This is what has transcended onto me, and I think the disciples of then as well. Then came the Holy Ghost 10 days later after he ascended on high. And they preached truth to the people in those peoples languages and 3,000 were saved that day. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can anyone hold anyone's sin(s) against anyone, when God has by his Son, Christ forgiven all our sins and made us thus to Father through his death at the cross:
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

unless you are a true deciple of the lord and dont sin then how can anyone forgive evryone and say they do not know what they do (like Jesus does ?
how can anyone hold themselves as high as Jesus, (This is where religion gets lost because people look to take the plank out of others befor they take the plank out of there own, so you see peoples rightousness goes to there head and befor you know it, they start thinking ther God.

 

[Quickfire]

Sorry, you misunderstand, and I am not Protestant nor any religion here on earth. For God's Kingdom is not here on earth as scripture is clear on this when he had Peter pout down his sword and restored that man's ear that was there to take Christ away to the religious leaders of that day.
Religion is a self effort work at trying to be approved, a flesh work, where we get pats on the back from others, convincing us that we are doing God's work, when in many cases we are not, been there done that. Not anymore
For I have no righteousness of my own and never will ever.
I do have righteousness though, but it is not mine, it is God's and God's alone. God by belief in God has made me a partaker in this. Again it is not mine it is God's only
As Christ said why call me good for their is only one good and that is my Father. Whom through his death, which is our death to self, gives us life through the resurrection, where God through one's belief brings one to new life in God's Spirit
Read Romans 6, real clear about the warfare of flesh and God's Spirit, and that God through Baptism, (Holy Ghost) we are dead to sinful flesh and made alive, born again in God's Spirit by God doing this through us believing God, Not at all, by any self efforts.
No flesh in God's sight will please God, only flesh that ever has is Christ's.

Romans 8 as well is very clear on the problem of flesh fighting against God's Spirit
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So since all sin has been condemned to flesh how is it to be, the only to worship God then?
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Does not truth need to be pondered to be set free from bondage and be a doer of the word?
Separating flesh form Spirit, God's?

ok because you are not of any religion, does that make you less accountable to God? (you do know what goes on in none denominational churches dont you ? (gay marriage the lot (OH YEAH) it happens
but granted you can be a none denominational christian, and be saved,


but to think because you are not off any religion will get you saved, (if thats what you are thinkng is wrong, if you are thinking that. ( i know ive herd all the arguments the road s narrow etc. its only narrow if choose to be hateful (thats it end off for me) if you believe that only none denominational people are the only to be saved, THEN YOUR JUST another bad indoctrined poor soul that needs to start a fresh, your 56 now you must have many reason for not being of any religion or denom,
maybe you have always ben that way i do not know, but even if you was church of england protestant etc. you could still be a giving christian towards cathlolics

 

[Quickfire]

forgot to mention there also homeward, do you you believe that Christianity in not a religion ? as it looks like your saying you dont , becasuse you see religion as works based ?

 

[jandian]

IF those angels, and Mary can hear them and their prayers it is no difference than YOU asking your pastor to pray for your family during rough times.

There is certainly NO theological issue here. I, personally, think it' silly to pray to a dead person. If they are dead and in heaven next to the awesomeness of GOD, I'm quite sure their attention is focused on Their LORD AND GOD and all of His loving might.

But, as this is a matter of faith, not salvific theology, I have to reference that the two men eating meat had an issue of faith, and were told NOT to nudge each other about it.

I have to ask the room, seriously, is praying to angels, saints or Mary of any relevance and change the Gospel? Or is it just something weird that gets picked at, like the KKK picks at a black man in 1950?

We have not yet learned that what you do is a reflection of what you truly believe. If Christ makes a point of identifying himself as the only door and only mediator; we don't get to make make it unimportant.

eating meat has been discussed in the bible as inconsequential. God being the only mediator has not. What matters in the bible and what doesn't matter is clearly shown

 

[watcher2013]

The quickest answer I can come up with for this question that you ask, even though my point to you is simply that I know that I don't worship Mary (and that should be enough lol ), is that we honor Mary by worshipping her Son, Christ, and we honor Christ, her Son, by loving His mother like he told us to:
Behold Your Mother

25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wifeof Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

Did I not ask the list of how you worship your god vs how you honor Mary...

and regarding the verse above, have you ask yourself, why He didn't say to mary magdalene, Behold your daughter...and behold your mother...
the purpose is from verse 7, and from that hour THAT disciple took her to his own home.

Do you not think it is enough to hear from me that I don't worship Mary? Why do you keep telling me I do when I clearly state that I don't? Don't I know whom I worship? Its really crazy, if you think about it, that you should tell me what I am doing and not doing when I am clearly not doing what you told me I AM doing! lol Watcher, pay attention..... you ready? ...... I DON'T WORSHIP MARY!! I'll repeat it again..... I DO NOT WORSHIP MARY!!! Don't be upset. I know it upsets you to come to terms with the fact that you know nothing about Catholics and you're only going on what you've been misled with, but nevertheless, you are wrong. Do some research brother, please. Read the Catechism. It tells you EXACTLY what the Catholic Church teaches.

How about this as catholic teachings
Council of Nicaea(7th Ecumenical,787 AD)
We, therefore, following the royal pathway and the divinelyinspired authority of our Holy Fathers and the traditions of the Catholic Church (for, as we all know, ethHoly Spirit indwells her), define with all certitude and accuracy that just asthe figure of the precious and life-giving Cross, so also the venerable and holy images, as well in painting and mosaicas of other fit materials, should be set forth in the holy churches of God,and on the sacred vessels and on the vestments and on hangings and in picturesboth in houses and by the wayside,to wit, the figure of our Lord God andSaviour Jesus Christ, of ourspotless Lady, the Mother of God, of the honourable Angels, of all Saintsand of all pious people. For by so muchmore frequently as they are seen in artistic representation, by so much more readily are men lifted upto the memory of their prototypes, and to a longing after them; and to these should be given due salutation andhonorable reverence not indeed that true worship of faith which pertains aloneto the divine nature; but to these, as to the figure of the precious andlife-giving Cross and to the Book of the Gospels and to the other holy objects,incense and lights may be offered according to ancient pious custom. For thehonor which is paid to the image passes on to that which the image represents,and he who reveres the image reveres in it the subject represented . . .
In these we have the following:
1.Images should be set forth in the churches,houses etc.
2.Images include Mary, the mother of God…
3.Men are lifted up to the memory of their prototypes…and to a longing after them.
4.Images are to be given due salutation andhonourable reverence NOT indeed that true worship of faith which pertains aloneto the divine nature…but as to the figure of cross, etc..
(Did they define how they honor God???)

5.Honor is paid to the IMAGES
6.The honor paid to the images passes on thatwhich the image REPRESENTS.
7.And HE who REVERES the IMAGE reveres in it thesubject represented.

The Israelites in the wilderness think they WORSHIP god...and this is what they did
Exo 32:6 And theyrose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peaceofferings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. Exo32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go,get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt,have corrupted themselves: Exo 32:8 Theyhave turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have madethem a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, andsaid, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the landof Egypt.
Did the Bible define Idolatry??? The bibles gave usexamples… Exo 32
1. They honor/Revere the calf…made an altar and didoffer before it…
2. They believe it represent the God who broughtthem out of the land of Egypt.
3. They made a feast..not to the calf but to theLord…
Today…
1. Catholics honour and reveres the images of Mary…and based on the above he, who reveres the image, reveres the subjectrepresented.
2. Mary, based on their teaching…is their Advocate,Their Helper and Their Mediator (Catechism para. 969)…(titles belonging only to Christ)
In reality, they are giving honor/reverenceto their mediator, their Helper, Their Advocate…(as if they are giving Honor toChrist our LORD, but no the statue represents Mary).
3. They made a feast to mary…and also special devotion(Rosary)….
Honor to God, God is to be worship alone…
"Having entered deeply into thehistory of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echoes themost important doctrines of the faith: and whenshe is the subject of preaching and worship she prompts the faithful tocome to her Son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father." (VaticanCouncil II, Vol. 1, pp. 420 and 421)

Thisstatement shows that Mary may become the subject of worship…
Veneration, Honor to images by Catolicism vs the Bible
Kissing Images
Hos_13:2 And now theysin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idolsaccording to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: theysay of them, Let the men that sacrifice kissthe calves. (shall I say Kiss Mary’s statue)
Praying to Mary forDeliverance
Isa 44:17 And theresidue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down untoit, and worshippeth it, and prayeth untoit, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. (SHALL I Pray, Mary theMother of God, Catechism para 966 "In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leavethe world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. Youconceived the living God and, by yourprayers, will deliver our souls from death.)

Just quickly, when I need help or guidance with something, I ask God for it. When I talk to Mary, I ask her to pray FOR me, asking Christ for help, just like she told Him to turn the water into wine at the wedding. I don't ask her to bless me or forgive me. You see the difference? That's just answering your question. This conversation can go a hundred different ways now, and it probably will because you need something to pick at. Peace, man, peace!!!

1. How you ask God? by Prayer?
2. How you talk to Mary? By prayer?

The John you have exampled above said in his letter
1Jn 2:1 My littlechildren, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin,we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

and Paul in his letter to those in Rome
Rom_8:26 Likewise theSpirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for aswe ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings whichcannot be uttered.

 

[watcher2013]

You can think as you want to, Love you God's way not man's no matter what you say or think, God just love you. This is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All in God's type of love to you as shown to us in 1 Cor. 13:4-13.
We all have free choice and will, and can believe whatever we want to believe, yet through God and the cross, none of us have to live like refugees. Christ has taken on all the stress for us, to make us free in God, loving all as he has said to do
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Pretty clear, and Love is never Jealous or envious. God's type as given to us through Christ whom went to death for us, in order to give us new life in him, by the resurrection. Being born again in God's Spirit, forsaking one's flesh Spirit that he was originally born with.

You still did not answer the question, but let me rephrase it.

do the Muslims worship false god?

 

[jandian]

You still did not answer the question, but let me rephrase it.

do the Muslims worship false god?

........................yes

 

[Quickfire]

Did I not ask the list of how you worship your god vs how you honor Mary...

and regarding the verse above, have you ask yourself, why He didn't say to mary magdalene, Behold your daughter...and behold your mother...
the purpose is from verse 7, and from that hour THAT disciple took her to his own home.




How about this as catholic teachings
Council of Nicaea(7th Ecumenical,787 AD)
We, therefore, following the royal pathway and the divinelyinspired authority of our Holy Fathers and the traditions of the Catholic Church (for, as we all know, ethHoly Spirit indwells her), define with all certitude and accuracy that just asthe figure of the precious and life-giving Cross, so also the venerable and holy images, as well in painting and mosaicas of other fit materials, should be set forth in the holy churches of God,and on the sacred vessels and on the vestments and on hangings and in picturesboth in houses and by the wayside,to wit, the figure of our Lord God andSaviour Jesus Christ, of ourspotless Lady, the Mother of God, of the honourable Angels, of all Saintsand of all pious people. For by so muchmore frequently as they are seen in artistic representation, by so much more readily are men lifted upto the memory of their prototypes, and to a longing after them; and to these should be given due salutation andhonorable reverence not indeed that true worship of faith which pertains aloneto the divine nature; but to these, as to the figure of the precious andlife-giving Cross and to the Book of the Gospels and to the other holy objects,incense and lights may be offered according to ancient pious custom. For thehonor which is paid to the image passes on to that which the image represents,and he who reveres the image reveres in it the subject represented . . .
In these we have the following:
1.Images should be set forth in the churches,houses etc.
2.Images include Mary, the mother of God…
3.Men are lifted up to the memory of their prototypes…and to a longing after them.
4.Images are to be given due salutation andhonourable reverence NOT indeed that true worship of faith which pertains aloneto the divine nature…but as to the figure of cross, etc..
(Did they define how they honor God???)

5.Honor is paid to the IMAGES
6.The honor paid to the images passes on thatwhich the image REPRESENTS.
7.And HE who REVERES the IMAGE reveres in it thesubject represented.

The Israelites in the wilderness think they WORSHIP god...and this is what they did
Exo 32:6 And theyrose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peaceofferings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. Exo32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go,get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt,have corrupted themselves: Exo 32:8 Theyhave turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have madethem a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, andsaid, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the landof Egypt.
Did the Bible define Idolatry??? The bibles gave usexamples… Exo 32
1. They honor/Revere the calf…made an altar and didoffer before it…
2. They believe it represent the God who broughtthem out of the land of Egypt.
3. They made a feast..not to the calf but to theLord…
Today…
1. Catholics honour and reveres the images of Mary…and based on the above he, who reveres the image, reveres the subjectrepresented.
2. Mary, based on their teaching…is their Advocate,Their Helper and Their Mediator (Catechism para. 969)…(titles belonging only to Christ)
In reality, they are giving honor/reverenceto their mediator, their Helper, Their Advocate…(as if they are giving Honor toChrist our LORD, but no the statue represents Mary).
3. They made a feast to mary…and also special devotion(Rosary)….
Honor to God, God is to be worship alone…
"Having entered deeply into thehistory of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echoes themost important doctrines of the faith: and whenshe is the subject of preaching and worship she prompts the faithful tocome to her Son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father." (VaticanCouncil II, Vol. 1, pp. 420 and 421)

Thisstatement shows that Mary may become the subject of worship…
Veneration, Honor to images by Catolicism vs the Bible
Kissing Images
Hos_13:2 And now theysin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idolsaccording to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: theysay of them, Let the men that sacrifice kissthe calves. (shall I say Kiss Mary’s statue)
Praying to Mary forDeliverance
Isa 44:17 And theresidue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down untoit, and worshippeth it, and prayeth untoit, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. (SHALL I Pray, Mary theMother of God, Catechism para 966 "In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leavethe world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. Youconceived the living God and, by yourprayers, will deliver our souls from death.)


1. How you ask God? by Prayer?
2. How you talk to Mary? By prayer?

The John you have exampled above said in his letter
1Jn 2:1 My littlechildren, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin,we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

and Paul in his letter to those in Rome
Rom_8:26 Likewise theSpirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for aswe ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings whichcannot be uttered.

well some things are worth fighting for like forgiveness, but bringing up some old teaching to make catholics to look bad is more like hatred to me, (take that how you like, (but it is not forgiveness. catholicism has been around at lot longer, been through the dark ages too, survived and gave modern day times there religion , (a true religion at that.)
so what if they have mad a few mistakes along the way, they have a polagised, and put it right,
see the thing iis people who forgive are bound tomake mistakes along the way, because people take advantage of that and then walk all over people, now how true the bad points are and to what level im not, but granted mistakes have been mad, but hey christanty is stll here, cheer up kid , its not as bad as you think it is the church does correct its mistakes,