Attack of the seventh day adventists

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Sep 6, 2013
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I think this thread should of been called "The attack of the Neo-Judaizers Cult and how they rob you of salvation and mock the death of Christ" Then it would more accurate.
Cult: a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object

I guess you're referring to the fact that we keep the sabbath. We believe all the commandments are binding.
It's just people that have never visited an Adventist church that think that's the focal point of our attention.

If you find scripture that proves, don't twist it, that the sabbath was abolished then maybe we can come out of the "cult".

If we are a cult of anything it's of believing in Holy scripture and I'd rather be apart of that than a cult of man made traditions.

You speak of your own authority and tradition. We speak of God's Holy word.
Have a blessed day
 
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Bryancampbell

Guest
I think (I hope I speak right for some of these) what we are saying is.

it is religious just to merely obey the ten commandments. We must exceed beyond the righteousness of the Pharisees. Even though they tried obeying the law because God told us, they disregarded the inner heart. This becoming religious.

If I'm not wrong, even though they went into the littlest detail about the law, inside they were sinful. I think that's why Jesus said clean the inside of the cup first. If you obey the commandment do not murder, but inside hate someone without cause, you are still guilty of sinning. I think the point Jesus made was to obey beyond just commands, but do it with right intentions.

You could prevent yourself from idolatry, but if you ignore God in your heart, your still sinning.
You could prevent yourself from lying, but inside you speak things intentionally to hurt people when you should be quiet about certain matters, your sinning, even if your speaking the truth.

This is my message to you. I'm not saying your unsaved and such. But from the NT point of view. If your heart isn't inline with what you preach, how can you be sinless in obedience?

Merely obeying physical commands doesn't excuse the heart and it's motives. So I encourage that all of us learn to go beyond just obeying commands.

Just because you can present yourself nice on the outside, doesn't mean you can be evil in the inside. Or else your like a dead man's tomb. Pretty on the outside, dead in the inside.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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the crazy fact of this matter i have used solid scriptures to back up my point that proves we cannot keep the 10 commandments or even be righteous and showed you the scriptures that said that covenant has also been changed because the jews ( who it was originally meant for) continued not in it so God made a new covenant with them but you all just choose to not accept it and continue to live in your illusion.. despite seeing the truth, if your not born again you will never know the truth 1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

and I've shown more that shows they haven't.

so where does that leave us?
 
Aug 31, 2013
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I can easily say Jesus is greater than Paul. I would hope you would say the same thing! Why? Because He is. Here's some more math for you....
Jesus=God.
Paul=Man

Of course Paul isn't worthless, and that mathematical equation doesn't imply that all, whether numerically or in this instance.

And yes, Josh. I have a pretty solid understanding of the Holy Spirit. But I'm sure how that relates to our present conversation.

Blessings to you,
Matt

You said it to discredit paul. You are right you can say it all you want...... but as long as you draw a conclusion that Paul is wrong because you think Jesus said something different, Mr. J and I are just going to laugh at you and roll our eyes.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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Yeah... 23 pages in a matter of days.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but my main problem with SDA isn't even the Saturday sabbath thing. It's the teachings of Ellen G White. I have a similar problem with the catechisms and extra biblical texts that various denominations have (Catholc, Lutheran, Orthodox, Mormon, etc).

Rev 22:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Galatians 1:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
first paragraph....
A, So you are a misogynist and don't' like women preachers? OR is there something specific you don't like about her teachings?
B, So, you don't like HISTORY and what the people who were taught by the APOSTLES and DISCIPLES thought about the Church. Undoubtedly you have a better chance at knowing the truth 2000 years after the fact, than they had living it. :| HUBRIS, I SAY HUBRIS SON!!!

Second paragraph. NOBODY adds to the Bible, ESPECIALLY the Catholics. King JIM took books that the alleged SPIRIT OF GOD had him put in, OUT of the Bible. The books are taught as a history. PAUL TAUGHT TRADITION, teaching from books of people Paul told to pass on his teachings from, is hardly some sorta offense.

You are omitting Paul's adoption of tradition though, so YOU are the one removing... Gotta hate that. If your threats from your posts are to be read as you intend them, you should be sweating, not them.

Last paragraph. You post the verse and imply an offense that you don't prove. That you don't even give a fleeting representation of argument to support. So, How long have you worked at disinformation for the black chopper flying CIA? <<<< example of what you are doing.


Dude, this post was trippin.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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I think (I hope I speak right for some of these) what we are saying is.

it is religious just to merely obey the ten commandments.
So, I can murder you for saying something so backwards and God is ok with it. GREAT, cuz I'm tempted. Paul says things about the law. THE LAW HE MENTIONS is the one that you are circumcised personally to partake of. The DECALOGUE, commandments aren't even in that conversation. NO ONE EVER EVER EVER suggested they should be ignored, until someone decided to move the sabbath, then they take the one they don't like out.

THEY ARE NOT THE LAW. STOP IMPLYING THEY ARE. THEY ARE SEPARATE COVENANTS.


We must exceed beyond the righteousness of the Pharisees. Even though they tried obeying the law because God told us, they disregarded the inner heart. This becoming religious.
That starts with no longer being pedantic.

Merely obeying physical commands doesn't excuse the heart and it's motives. So I encourage that all of us learn to go beyond just obeying commands.
BUT THROUGH obeying those commands does GOD change you. And the change is what you need, not an altar call and plays with words.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
BUT THROUGH obeying those commands does GOD change you. And the change is what you need, not an altar call and plays with words.
No, Matthew 23:25-28 NASB

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence."

"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also."

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness."

"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."

Jesus said if you clean the inside first then the outside. Obeying just commandments outwardly doesn't make you change. Change your heart first then the outside will be made clean. You don't obey to be clean, you repent inside to obey. I'm not calling you a Pharisee but hopefully none of us fall into that category.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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No, Matthew 23:25-28 NASB

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence."

"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also."

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness."

"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."

Jesus said if you clean the inside first then the outside. Obeying just commandments outwardly doesn't make you change. Change your heart first then the outside will be made clean. You don't obey to be clean, you repent inside to obey. I'm not calling you a Pharisee but hopefully none of us fall into that category.
Ephesians 4:11-17, Xianmaturity comes through WORKS, not independent study of the Bible.
Gal 5:6.
Last parable of Matt 25.
The ONLY commandment from Christ, LOVE demands a work be present.
JAMES explains without works you have no faith.
....well without faith you hve no grace.
....without grace you haveno salvation.

Works don't' save you, but if you are saved you'll have the works.

NOW you can't do them right, til you fail a billion times, so the quicker you get started, the closer to mature you'll get. :|

You are saved to do HIS WORKS.

You are saved to become an INSTRUMENT OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. Instrument, or TTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLL Tool.

Tools are used for working.

You are so horndawg to argue agasint Jewish law keepingk, you didn't even understand our conversation.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
You are so horndawg to argue agasint Jewish law keepingk, you didn't even understand our conversation.
Actually I wasn't talking to you, but then you replied to me without understanding anything I said thus we are now engaging a convo. Your swift to judge and criticize.

So am I wrong to say, clean your heart first then obey? What I'm refuting with you is, don't think you can obey to be close, Jesus said our righteousness must exceed the Pharisees who thought doing commandments with a heart far from God made them obedient. You don't tell a person to be a Christian you must obey these commandments because it will change you. You tell them to first clean their heart, give themselves to God, so inside they may be born again. Then they can obey and be closer to Jesus.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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You said it to discredit paul. You are right you can say it all you want...... but as long as you draw a conclusion that Paul is wrong because you think Jesus said something different, Mr. J and I are just going to laugh at you and roll our eyes.
Tannar,
It appears you came into this thread a little later than most, which is obviously fine. If you take the time to look over my past posts in this thread, you will see a number of times where I said to properly understand Paul, we need to understand Jesus first. Never have I discredited Paul in this thread or said he was wrong, and I challenge you to find a post where I did. You will not find one.

My statement about Jesus>Paul is in reference to what author and what scripture carries more weight. About which Scripture is the original, and which one is the commentary on that original. Paul isn't wrong. He is commentating on Jesus' words. Paul was anointed by God to preach to the Gentiles. He was full of the Holy Spirit, and he spoke words of life and truth. But every single word of Paul's HAS to line up with Jesus' teaching. And in order to truly understand what Paul was saying, we need to understand Jesus' words first.

Thanks in advance for looking back at my previous posts, and recognizing that you're mistaken.

Have a great night everyone!
Matt
 
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danschance

Guest
Cult: a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object

I guess you're referring to the fact that we keep the sabbath. We believe all the commandments are binding.
It's just people that have never visited an Adventist church that think that's the focal point of our attention.

If you find scripture that proves, don't twist it, that the sabbath was abolished then maybe we can come out of the "cult".

If we are a cult of anything it's of believing in Holy scripture and I'd rather be apart of that than a cult of man made traditions.

You speak of your own authority and tradition. We speak of God's Holy word.
Have a blessed day
Actually, I speak directly from the bible and only the bible. Never on my own authority. Notably Col. 2:16. I guess you came too late to realize that? Read thru my posts on this thread before you claim I am inventing new doctrine not based on the Bible but my own authority.

Thank you for your patience and lack of judgmentalism.
 
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haz

Guest
The lies the devil tell you that we can't keep the 10 commandments are absurd to say the least.
Hi childofgod87,

Probably like many here, I know quite a few Adventists. They are a mixed bunch, varying from the legalists who hang on every teaching of E,G White, to non-legalists who work Sabbaths, etc.

One of the legalistic Adventists I've encountered claims that there is no salvation for anyone who does not keep the law/10 commandments. This Adventist, like all the others I know, fail to keep the law/10 commandments.

To "keep" the commandments means to obey them perfectly. Just one offense makes you guilty of all the law, James 2:10. Anyone who knows Adventists, knows that they do not "keep" the law.


What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Romans 6:1,2
I agree with Rom 6:2. How shall we that are died to sin live in it any longer?

Only past sin was dealt with at the cross, Rom 3:25.
After that there is no more subsequent sin that can be charged against a Christian. God sees Christ in us and in him there is no sin (1John 3:6). In Christ a christian cannot be charged with sin.

Christians cannot be charged with the sin of transgression of the law as we're not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 4:24, Gal 5:18, 1tim 1:9.

Christians cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1John 5:17) as our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (even sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

1Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh (crucified), arm yourselves likewise with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6): for he that hath suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) hath ceased from sin

1John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed (Christ) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So why are Adventists still sinning?

Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor/Sinner

Adventists can be charged with sin/transgression of the law (1John 3:4), because they bring themselves under the law to judge righteousness by works of the law. Whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19. Hence we see that Adventists, being under the law, can be charged with sin if the do not obey it perfectly. Adventists have made themselves a transgressor/sinner.


The soul who sins shall die. Ezekiel 18:20
What is sin?

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 1 John 3:4

Breaking the commandments is considered sin.
What you say here applies to Adventists as they are under the law, and whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

How do we know Jesus believes we can keep the commandments?

go andsin no more.” John 8:11
Jesus set us free from sin, John 8:36, Rom 6:7.
As I showed in scripture above, Christians have "ceased from sin", 1Pet 4:1, "cannot sin" 1John 3:9.
Past sin was remitted on the cross (Rom 3:25) and after that there is no more subsequent sin.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (even sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth


Jesus tells us how to prove we love him:

If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15
What are his commandments that show we love him?1John 3:22,23
we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Obedience isn't legalism
Adventist legalism is disobedience.
We cannot mix grace with works of the law.
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Adventists and their like follow a lukewarm mix of grace with works of the law. Such lukewarm attitudes are disobedience and will result in such being spewed out of God's mouth, Rev 3:15,16. God calls upon the lukewarm to repent, Rev 3:19.
 
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Sep 4, 2012
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Christians cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1John 5:17) as our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
But when you don't have faith or love your neighbor, you sin.
 
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Sep 4, 2012
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Past sin was remitted on the cross (Rom 3:25) and after that there is no more subsequent sin.
Past sins refers to those offenses that were committed under the old covenant. It does not refer to sins that someone commits before they come to faith.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Hoping for all the seventh day rest keepers to have great day, full of peace and joy, and the same for all brothers and sisters, in Christ Jesus.
 
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GOI

Guest
[SUP]

Romans 3

[/SUP]28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I think this thread should of been called "The attack of the Neo-Judaizers Cult and how they rob you of salvation and mock the death of Christ" Then it would more accurate.
I think this is really true. Christ died once for sins committed under the law of the old covenant. By placing themselves under that law, they re-crucify Christ to themselves with their blasphemous get-out-of-jail-free card.

Only the disobedient are under the law of the old covenant.

If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law [of Moses]. Galatians 5:18


All those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14
 
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GOI

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the Old covenant is the same as the New covenant

The Sabbath day is put into our minds and not to be put door post or worn as fringes

Hebrews 8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]
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[/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]
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[/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
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[/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]
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[/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
 
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GOI

Guest
Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Numbers 15:16
One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.