Was Paul a false apostle according to you ?
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The thread topics in this forum seem to get more absurb as time goes on!
There is absolutely NO differance between what the Lord Jesus taught and what Paul taught (as it was God the Holy Spirit Who was the Inspirer of both), if you (or anybody else) think there is, it is simply because of your (or their) inability to rightly divide the word of truth! 2Tim 2v15, 3v16
There is absolutely NO differance between what the Lord Jesus taught and what Paul taught (as it was God the Holy Spirit Who was the Inspirer of both), if you (or anybody else) think there is, it is simply because of your (or their) inability to rightly divide the word of truth! 2Tim 2v15, 3v16
The thread topics in this forum seem to get more absurb as time goes on!
There is absolutely NO differance between what the Lord Jesus taught and what Paul taught (as it was God the Holy Spirit Who was the Inspirer of both), if you (or anybody else) think there is, it is simply because of your (or their) inability to rightly divide the word of truth! 2Tim 2v15, 3v16
There is absolutely NO differance between what the Lord Jesus taught and what Paul taught (as it was God the Holy Spirit Who was the Inspirer of both), if you (or anybody else) think there is, it is simply because of your (or their) inability to rightly divide the word of truth! 2Tim 2v15, 3v16
Paul controversies would make it for a 7 parts thread, at least.
E
Oh, you're so terribly wrong.. Paul controversies would make it for a 7 parts thread, at least.
Paul controversies would make it for a 7 parts thread, at least.
Paul taught what Jesus did.. people misinterpret what Paul said to make him appear to contradict. but it is what people think paul said, not what he actually said.
I've read this kinda thing on another Site which will remained unmentioned............isn't there some new kinda group/sect/whatever that is running with this idea of the Apostle being a "false apostle?"
Man, even Paul doesn't get a PASS when he disagrees with the theological ideologies/beliefs of some people........guess I shouldn't be surprised when folks have at me eh?
Man, even Paul doesn't get a PASS when he disagrees with the theological ideologies/beliefs of some people........guess I shouldn't be surprised when folks have at me eh?
Firstly, Paul was a pharisee, judged VERY harshly by Jesus, who call them seed of serpent! Correct!? Mathew 23 chapter rigns the bell?
What was wrong with pharisees?
They were nullifying God's Law and replacing it with own ideas. Correct?
Paul, to the contrary was a perfect pharisee, who wad doing exactly so! Nullifying God's Law!
He was, according to his words, perfect in doing so.
Another problem is... what is God's Word?
According to Jesus - is every word which comes from God's mouth, meaning Father and Son.
In the Bible are words of satan as well and we should not follow advices of satan or his demons, correct?
But according to Paul, all the Bible is God's Word. Incorrect!
Apocrypha as well?
Since I have learned these things, for me God's words are:
1. Written by Moses and prophets - they were citing God's words, as He has commanded them.
2. Written by Apostles, who were eye witnesses of our Savior, faithfully reporting what they saw and heard.
Both groups had many witnesses testifying to the truth they were conveying.
Paul or rather Saul don't have a witness and he never saw Christ. According to Law, he would have to have two witnesses of his conversion and we would have to be able to read their testimony!
Unfortunately we have NOTHING - just words of... pharisee Saul. Being a pharisee he was a bad guy just by default of being member of the sect, which was basis for... Talmud - worst kind of blasphemy ever written!
But Saul was proud of being... pharisee.
What was wrong with pharisees?
They were nullifying God's Law and replacing it with own ideas. Correct?
Paul, to the contrary was a perfect pharisee, who wad doing exactly so! Nullifying God's Law!
He was, according to his words, perfect in doing so.
Another problem is... what is God's Word?
According to Jesus - is every word which comes from God's mouth, meaning Father and Son.
In the Bible are words of satan as well and we should not follow advices of satan or his demons, correct?
But according to Paul, all the Bible is God's Word. Incorrect!
Apocrypha as well?
Since I have learned these things, for me God's words are:
1. Written by Moses and prophets - they were citing God's words, as He has commanded them.
2. Written by Apostles, who were eye witnesses of our Savior, faithfully reporting what they saw and heard.
Both groups had many witnesses testifying to the truth they were conveying.
Paul or rather Saul don't have a witness and he never saw Christ. According to Law, he would have to have two witnesses of his conversion and we would have to be able to read their testimony!
Unfortunately we have NOTHING - just words of... pharisee Saul. Being a pharisee he was a bad guy just by default of being member of the sect, which was basis for... Talmud - worst kind of blasphemy ever written!
But Saul was proud of being... pharisee.
Right up to the time he met Jesus on the road to Emmaus. A greater change in a man you will hardly ever see. This is the same man who counted all he was in man's eyes but dung for Christ. I suspect Paul was weeping as he wrote the old man is passed away and all things are become new. 2 Cor 5:17 I can weep with him as I read it today.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
M
I wouldn't say they get more absurd. From what I've noticed in this forum, there are about the same 2-3 dozen or so topics which rotate in and out of popularity. Each topic is just a massive, long, drawn-out argument between 2 sides, and the arguments never change or add anything new when someone creates the next new thread on the same topic a month later. From my observations, there's some arguments that just run like clock-work, first person says A, next person says B in response to A, then C response comes to B to support A, back and forth, bringing up all the same stuff that has already been brought up about the topic over and over.
For me it gets rather tiresome to look at, like "oh, it's this topic again, bet I know what all the people are saying." And the thing is, sometimes I noticed that both sides are arguing about semantics and specific words and how one person didn't write a 10 page essay explaining every single detail on the subject, but if people set that aside they might realize that there isn't a disagreement between the 2 sides (I'm looking at the once saved always saved topics as a prime example of this).
This is why I rarely post in "Bible discussion" topics anymore, it's just endless arguing in circles. Now if I could just avoid these "debates" with the evolutionists, but it seems my desire to not want to see them trapped believing in doctrines not helpful to their life is too strong.
For me it gets rather tiresome to look at, like "oh, it's this topic again, bet I know what all the people are saying." And the thing is, sometimes I noticed that both sides are arguing about semantics and specific words and how one person didn't write a 10 page essay explaining every single detail on the subject, but if people set that aside they might realize that there isn't a disagreement between the 2 sides (I'm looking at the once saved always saved topics as a prime example of this).
This is why I rarely post in "Bible discussion" topics anymore, it's just endless arguing in circles. Now if I could just avoid these "debates" with the evolutionists, but it seems my desire to not want to see them trapped believing in doctrines not helpful to their life is too strong.
J
Rom. 15:8 states, that Christ was the minister to the Jews, Rom. 15:16. states, Paul was the minister to the Gentiles. Christ taught under the law, Paul taught under grace. Notice that, Peter at Cornelius house, (a gentile home). He told him, it was unlawful for him to be at his house, even though Christ told him to go. Even fourteen years after Paul's second trip to Jerusalem they were not preaching the law of grace. That is why, Paul was there. They were trying, to bring Paul and his followers under the law. Paul would not have any part of it. It was a mystery reveal, to Paul first, Eph. Chp. 3. Peter at some point caught on to Paul's teaching. In 2cd. Peter 3:15,16. Peter states, that people that don't understand Paul's teaching, wrestle with it to their own destruction. Both law and grace teaching was about Christ, that is the center of it all. The law was abolish at the cross and work was abolish at the cross. Baptizing, by water has nothing to do with salvation. !st John 1:7 states that blood does the cleaning. Eph. 4:5 states there is only one baptism. The Holy Spirit does the baptizing Corith. 12:12, 13. Nothing wrong with water baptizing, just to show others you have accepted Christ.
Many believe Paul is not to be trusted, mostly because much of what he has to teach is confused. It is confused because he is addressing specific incidents of varied assemblies, and oft times though he seems to contradict himself, he is just correcting a situation as best he is able. Also many do not trust him when or if he appears to be in conflict with our Master, Yeshua.
Yeshua teaches when hypocrites weigh heavy burdens on you which they will not lift a finger to budge themselves, do as they say, for they will have to answer for their hypocrisy. I by no means label Paul a hypocrite, however if we are advised to do as the hypocrites say and not as they do, how much more should we listen to what Paul has to share with the assemblies!?
My own rule is not actually a rule at all, it is to obey Jesus Who teaches plainly, come, learn of me for my yoke is easy, my burden is light. There is no better Master (teacher) than Yeshua.
So, when Paul may confuse a person, whenever possible find what the Master says on the subject. Problem solved.
Yeshua teaches when hypocrites weigh heavy burdens on you which they will not lift a finger to budge themselves, do as they say, for they will have to answer for their hypocrisy. I by no means label Paul a hypocrite, however if we are advised to do as the hypocrites say and not as they do, how much more should we listen to what Paul has to share with the assemblies!?
My own rule is not actually a rule at all, it is to obey Jesus Who teaches plainly, come, learn of me for my yoke is easy, my burden is light. There is no better Master (teacher) than Yeshua.
So, when Paul may confuse a person, whenever possible find what the Master says on the subject. Problem solved.
I forgot in my last post to mention that Paul is not one of Twelve Apostles, that is, those whose names are engraved in the foundations of the Holy City. This by no means is stating he was not an apostle, for anyone who is sent out by our God, Elohanu, is an apostle, because it means literally "one sent out." If he is not to be considered an apostle by some, they may at least consider him a disciple, but according to his own writing, he was commissioned by Yeshua, Himself.