LOSING SALVATION POSSIBLE OR NOT POSSIBLE ???

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

the only people in remedial danger where the people who had not yet trusted christ fully (people who had already been saved, but were experiencing the work of the HS in people lives around them, and by association, being blessed themselves)



and the apostle john also made it clear that no one who is truly saved would ever deny christ, as he said, they departed because they were never of us, for if they were of us, they never would have departed.

who are they? Anti Christ.

who is Anti-Christ? one who denys christ.

Yet they were born again because the bible says that all who believe and confess will be saved (circumcision of the heart). Whether they were sincere or not is irrelevant. They trusted and were born again; and then counted the cost and realized it was too much to pay because they really loved the world more than GOD.

Saying a person can be circumcised in the heart and not lost is like saying that a child of Israel could be circumcised in the flesh and not be lost.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yet they were born again because the bible says that all who believe and confess will be saved (circumcision of the heart). Whether they were sincere or not is irrelevant. They trusted and were born again; and then counted the cost and realized it was too much to pay because they really loved the world more than GOD.

It does not say they were born again in the hebrews passage you posted. Sorry my friend. One must take into context what the whole book is about. it is about grace vs the law. to take it outside of this context is to risk misinterpretation.

Also. they did not all of a sudden think they loved the world more. They always did, Thats why the left. This is exactly what John is talking about.

Saying a person can be circumcised in the heart and not lost is like saying that a child of Israel could be circumcised in the flesh and not be lost.

lol. Why did you COMPLETELY Ignore John and not even speak of it?

You stated a person can be saved and deny Christ. John said they would never deny Christ. Now do you want to respond to what John said or not?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

lol. Why did you COMPLETELY Ignore John and not even speak of it?

You stated a person can be saved and deny Christ. John said they would never deny Christ. Now do you want to respond to what John said or not?

I'm not at my computer so I can't analyze the verse. I am certain, though, that the original doesn't say never.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not at my computer so I can't analyze the verse. I am certain, though, that the original doesn't say never.

Actually the passage says.

They would have remained with us

It is in the perfect tense. meaning this would have happened.

In other words. they never would have departed.

WHy did he say they departed?

He says it better than I could

1 John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

 

[jahsoul]

I have a quick question to ask. Is a lot of this speculation or is this considered concrete evidence to never losing salvation? Reason I ask is I don't live my life as such to worry about losing my salvation so I never get caught up on the losing salvation debate but when I read the word and things like James 5:19-20 and ask questions regarding it, I always get the beat around the bush answers.

 

[BeanieD]

Only if we walk away from God, and only then can we loose our salvation.

Blessings

 

[Cobus]

It is a sin to question God's authority or ways/decisions (it's not a sin to question why), although you are write in saying that this isn't a parable about sin, but it's about those who had labored for God longer then those freshly coming in and they were clearly in the wrong by their thinking, for Christ rebuked them in the story. The parable is about our attitude toward new comers or late comers into the faith, it clearly stating that we should refrain from resentment because God loves those late comers just the same. This parable probably has more to do with the Jews who are saved but then are looking down on the gentiles who also believed are are saved. But sure it has application for us today...

Also, regarding Acts 2:47 and the rendering of "should" be saved, all I have to say is the KJV strikes again!

NKJV
[SUP]47 [/SUP]praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church[SUP][h][/SUP] daily those who were being saved.

Expanded bible
[SUP]47 [/SUP]They praised God and were ·liked by [looked upon favorably by] all the people. Every day the Lord added those who were being saved to the group of believers.

Youngs literal translation
[SUP]47 [/SUP]praising God, and having favour with all the people, and the Lord was adding those being saved every day to the assembly.

Bookends. we are getting there.... the first thing I want you to see is.... LOOK, all these verses you qouted in blue, says.... The people STILL NEED SAVING... They are NOT SAVED YET!!!! Do you see they are STILL IN THE SAVING process?

They still need to be saved. Now let us shift our focus to holy people that GOD SAVED! God saved them not busy saving them. The ones God SAVED! Completely SAVED! The ones God says, are IN CHRIST! not being brought into Christ, they are ALREADY IN CHRIST! You see SALVATION IS IN Christ.... IN HIM! All SAVED people are IN HIM, and the ones that NEED SAVING, are being made to BE IN HIM. They are NOT IN HIM YET... they are BEING MADE HOLY to be in HIM! They are NOT HOLY YET, that is why they NEED SAVING, or BEING SAVED....

God says we know we are IN HIM when we sin no more! If we still sin, we are NOT IN HIM YET, and we are still like these people BEING SAVED... But Satan infiltrated the church and MISLEAD many... Satan is the one that says we CANNOT be holy, WE cannot be perfect. Satan made HIS OWN REIGHTEOUSNESS.... the one that says... Do not worry, Jesus died for your sins. That is a LIE! Jesus died for the sins people REPENT FROM, because He DIED ONCE, and was resurrected to BRING A NEW LIFE TO ALL WHO HE DIED FOR! HE (Christ Jesus) is the NEW LIFE in all whom he SAVED!

God says those that are being made Holy and He that makes holy ARE OUT OF ONE! Heb 2:11.... But how can a person be out of the SAME one that makes holy if the person do not believe in holiness. Godly holiness, as Holy AS GOD IS HOLY! I believe the one that makes HOLY does so PERFECTLY! And the one that are being made holy (being saved) will end up as holy and as perfect as God when the ONE who makes Holy is finished.... Right here on earth, and that person is SAVED!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Actually the passage says.

They would have remained with us

It is in the perfect tense. meaning this would have happened.

In other words. they never would have departed.

WHy did he say they departed?

He says it better than I could

1 John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Many are called, fewer are chosen (approved) because the many are unable to enter into GOD's rest due to unbelief. These are those who believe (as all those who came out of Egypt did), but produce no fruit due to being overcome by the cares of this world (as those in the wilderness who did not enter into rest due to unbelief).

John is simply saying in 1 John 2:19 that those who left did so because they chose to follow another spirit rather than the holy spirit (they were not of us), even though at one time they did follow the holy spirit enough to be saved (they came out of us).

 

[resurrection33]

What are your views on this matter, if you have time watch the entire video, and if possible give me sum feed back .Thanks i appreciate it and God bless you ,and your Family in Jesus mighty name amen.


Pick up your cross and follow christ

Life is eternal. When we are obeying the commandments, life goes well for us. When we aren't obeying the commandments, life does not go well for us:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV

 

[homwardbound]

How is it that people can taste of the heavenly gift (the spirit) and not be born in the spirit? The bible says that all we have to do to be born in the spirit is to believe in Jesus and confess him with our mouths. I don't see in scripture these same rationalizations that I'm reading here (e.g., that one was not really born of GOD if he later denies Christ).

Taste and receive are two differant things. God will have Mercy on whom God will have Mercy. There is a Motive behind everyone that believes. And God knows the Motives of everyone.
The Gospel is presented to the whole world and God gives his free gift freely of new life in him, one receives, but before one receives, one tastes and so is what is shown in Hebrews 5:10-6:6.
Read the whole passages for yourself and remember If GOD PERMITS, we get to move onto perfection, Maturity
Hebrews 6:3 And God permitting, we will do so.

And that is what seeing the new life is about, God permits this or God does not, depends on why you want to know God
Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

It takes hard work to enter his rest, and if one does then they rest from their works as God has from his.
It is and takes belief and then a hard work to enter his rest that he has just for you. This could happen in an instant or take years to come to the end of the energy of our own flesh self.
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
[SUP]23 [/SUP]if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.




Do you really think just because someone says they believe and confesses with their mouth out loud in front of you that makes them born again? Are you that gullible, I was way back and used and abused, never being wise as a serpent, was and am harmless as a dove, just maturity has been added. Only I know about God and me, The Spirit of God confesses with my Spirit and confirms my salvation in God. The same for every born again believer. God imputes the righteousness in us, we do nothing but ask, believe and one day receive. But I could fake it as many do, and will be revealed at the day of judgment, Where he says go away you who work iniquity.
The way you just put it allows me to sin up a storm and not care since I am forgiven just as the Corinthians did and is why Paul wrote them to straighten out the truth to them and put them back under Law since they were still being law breakers, carnal minded and needed the Spiritual mindset from God, and is why we are to renew our minds to God way of thinking not mankind's.

If I do not decide to die to self and be co-crucified with Christ at the death, how will I ever see the new life in God? I do believe, so do the demons, and the demons don't exercise Faith in Christ.
Here is a little exercise that Paul Talks of. You ask God what this means:

[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

Believe, God decides and one receives, then we see. It took many years for me to see through the dark glass, because of flesh in the way, and it took me asking God to co-crucify me self to the cross with Christ. Try it if you believe, and be dead to self as Paul has said many times in scripture many ways. If one does not work at seeing this belief in God how will one ever come to rest here and now, and be dead to self and alive to God here and now?

 

[homwardbound]

Yet they were born again because the bible says that all who believe and confess will be saved (circumcision of the heart). Whether they were sincere or not is irrelevant. They trusted and were born again; and then counted the cost and realized it was too much to pay because they really loved the world more than GOD.

Saying a person can be circumcised in the heart and not lost is like saying that a child of Israel could be circumcised in the flesh and not be lost.

If you are born again and as you are saying this that you can be unborn after born again. Sorry not possible.
Just as a Caterpillar once it has become a butterfly through Metamorphosis, the cocoon breaks open and it is a butterfly it is born again and never can be a worm again.
People that believe and that are trying to figure it out are in Metamorphosis, and not yet matured and are in the process of being so, unto the Born again life where there is no looking back. God is Faithful to show the way, and we all have free choice to stand all the way and take the licks as Job did. Who stayed with believing God, and knew his redeemer lives. Do we and will we stand and say thank you in all things good or bad to God? If you are born again you will. On your way we learn to to or turn away and never get there.

 

[homwardbound]

Actually the passage says.

They would have remained with us

It is in the perfect tense. meaning this would have happened.

In other words. they never would have departed.

WHy did he say they departed?

He says it better than I could

1 John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

And unfortunately, this verse is used in today's Churches as if their Church is the right one and you left so you are this or that and scourged. Not Good
When there is one true Tabernacle in Heaven
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The High Priest of a New Covenant[/h]8 Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.

The born again serve God in heaven in the Spirit of God
John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks
John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

No other way to truly worship God through Christ.

 

[homwardbound]

I have a quick question to ask. Is a lot of this speculation or is this considered concrete evidence to never losing salvation? Reason I ask is I don't live my life as such to worry about losing my salvation so I never get caught up on the losing salvation debate but when I read the word and things like James 5:19-20 and ask questions regarding it, I always get the beat around the bush answers.

[h=3]James 5:19-20[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, [SUP]20 [/SUP]remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins

Here you go Jahsoul. If one is sinning, harming another, you who are Spiritual, if God leads you to do this, this is how the Spiritual ones walk by God's lead. Walk as he walked in total dependency on Father as Christ was and is.
I like that you don't worry about your salvation, that tells me you are saved, and that you automatically love your neighbor as yourself. So you walk as he walked in Love.
So if you are called to speak to another then you speak, and they either receive or they don't.
You are safe in your belief and free, evidence is in your fruit, as you know, and need no other to show you. Yet if you are involved in sin, harming others, then you might need to be shown.
Hope this helps

 

[homwardbound]

Only if we walk away from God, and only then can we loose our salvation.

Blessings

If you are born again, how can you walk away, as a worm is born again to a butterfly, how can it ever be a worm again?

 

[homwardbound]

Many are called, fewer are chosen (approved) because the many are unable to enter into GOD's rest due to unbelief. These are those who believe (as all those who came out of Egypt did), but produce no fruit due to being overcome by the cares of this world (as those in the wilderness who did not enter into rest due to unbelief).

John is simply saying in 1 John 2:19 that those who left did so because they chose to follow another spirit rather than the holy spirit (they were not of us), even though at one time they did follow the holy spirit enough to be saved (they came out of us).

They tasted and decided to not swallow, so never born again, so never saved to completion

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you are born again and as you are saying this that you can be unborn after born again. Sorry not possible.

No I'm saying that a fetus can die in the womb and be stillborn. We are as fetuses in the womb of Jerusalem. We have not yet been fully born into our new life. Thus the warnings from Jesus and the apostles to fear and persevere lest we lose what we have.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

They tasted and decided to not swallow, so never born again, so never saved to completion

That's just a rationalization that I don't find supported in scripture. All who believe and confess Christ are born again.

 

[Brother_Don]

i never seen a person loose some thing on purpose, in my opinion i think one can throw away their salvation, but not loose it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Many are called, fewer are chosen (approved) because the many are unable to enter into GOD's rest due to unbelief. These are those who believe (as all those who came out of Egypt did), but produce no fruit due to being overcome by the cares of this world (as those in the wilderness who did not enter into rest due to unbelief).

John is simply saying in 1 John 2:19 that those who left did so because they chose to follow another spirit rather than the holy spirit (they were not of us), even though at one time they did follow the holy spirit enough to be saved (they came out of us).

No. Why do people always try to twist what someone said?

John said, IF THEY WERE TRULY OF US (SAVED) THEY WOULD HAVE REMAINED WITH US. B.ut they left to PROVE THEY WERE NOT OF US

Now your trying to twist it to something else?

John is talking about impostors, who claim to have faith, who "play the game for awhile" and eventually do what their true heart demands. leave. why? Because they NEVER HAD FAITH..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I'm saying that a fetus can die in the womb and be stillborn. We are as fetuses in the womb of Jerusalem. We have not yet been fully born into our new life. Thus the warnings from Jesus and the apostles to fear and persevere lest we lose what we have.

where does it say this?

Scripture DOES say that we have already past from death to life. We HAVE been born again. Our birth is already happened. We are not stillborn. We are born again and made children of God!

So how can you say this when scripture says the opposite?