LOSING SALVATION POSSIBLE OR NOT POSSIBLE ???

[1disciple]

Again, Paul writing to the Corinthian Christians (who were in a saved condition) openly states that it is possible to receive the Grace of God that results in futility because of the failure to remain faithful in the New Covenant. And so he entreats them to hold steady in the Grace of God that they had formerly received.

We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) -- 2 Cor. 6:1-2

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, Paul writing to the Corinthian Christians (who were in a saved condition) openly states that it is possible to receive the Grace of God that results in futility because of the failure to remain faithful in the New Covenant. And so he entreats them to hold steady in the Grace of God that they had formerly received.

We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) -- 2 Cor. 6:1-2

lol.. again. What does the bolded part say?? NOW IS THE DAY..

Why would he say it? They have not been saved yet is the only reason. why would he tell them to be saved NOW if they were already saved.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

yep. and thus he does not have the benefits and rewards of the butterfly. But he is still a new creature.

In spiritual terms. A person not born again is not even a catapiller. He is DEAD!

A chrysalis really isn't a new creature. It is a state of death and reformation. It is a soup of molecules that is neither caterpillar or butterfly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A chrysalis really isn't a new creature. It is a state of death and reformation. It is a soup of molecules that is neither caterpillar or butterfly.

well thank God his eternal life is not like this. we are not in a state of in-between life and death, we are either dead to Christ, or alive in him, this life he calls eternal life.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Only if you believe this to be true, then God shows you and once you see this as truth you see the new you born again. by god from God a free gift to us all that believe in God, if we will continue to stay steadfast in the Faith of God through the Son Chrsit our propitiation for all sin. For by him he did this for us
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Colossians 1:21-23

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23[/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

are we arguing that I have to believe something the Bible says before it is true? just to be clear

 

[1disciple]

Furthermore, that salvation is conditional upon man's freewill is clear from Rev. 22:17: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

If it is conditioned upon 'whosoever will', then the Elect of God are those who choice by freewill.

 

[1disciple]

Again, Paul styles those who were once in a state of salvation, but have failed the test as Reprobates. They were banished once by breaking the law, and yet again they have become 'probates', according to its true and denotative meaning of castaway.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? -- 2 Cor. 13:5

 

[1disciple]

However, the greatest example of how one may remain in Christian Salvation or fall from Christian Salvation is given by Christ in the parable. Here Christ speaks of some who were once attatched to the Vine of Christ, but produced bad fruit. They were therefore 'cut off', cast away and summarily burnt in the pires of the autumn harvest.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.-- John 15:6

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, Paul styles those who were once in a state of salvation, but have failed the test as Reprobates. They were banished once by breaking the law, and yet again they have become 'probates', according to its true and denotative meaning of castaway.

No he does not. That is your twisted interpretation.

Paul never taught you could lose salvation. Otherwise he would be teaching something Christ never taught. Eternal life is not a word. it is a literal thing. Life, which will never end. (see also John 6)

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? -- 2 Cor. 13:5

E

examine yourself to know you have true faith (and are saved) or have a false faith (thus are not saved)

Not examine yourself to make sure you STAY saved.. Again, your twisting what Paul is saying!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Furthermore, that salvation is conditional upon man's freewill is clear from Rev. 22:17: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

If it is conditioned upon 'whosoever will', then the Elect of God are those who choice by freewill.

whoever will come.

Not whoever will work to earn it.

If it is grace, it can not be by works (to earn a reward) why are you trying to work to earn a gift?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

However, the greatest example of how one may remain in Christian Salvation or fall from Christian Salvation is given by Christ in the parable. Here Christ speaks of some who were once attatched to the Vine of Christ, but produced bad fruit. They were therefore 'cut off', cast away and summarily burnt in the pires of the autumn harvest.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.-- John 15:6

lol (rolls eyes)

Eternal life, Never hunger, never thirst. live forever. Guaranteed to be risen. Never die. it goes on and on and on.

When God says never, I guess you interpret him to mean maybe never. or maybe not. or whatever.

Take God at his word. he who believes will NEVER DIE, but HAS (present tense) ETERNAL LIFE.

never dieing plus eternal life means eternal security.

 

[1disciple]

We can see how important human freewill is in our faith-conditional salvation through grace. Jesus states that it is those who will to do the Thelema Theou (Will of God) who will know of His Teaching.

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. -- John 7:17

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We can see how important human freewill is in our faith-conditional salvation through grace. Jesus states that it is those who will to do the Thelema Theou (Will of God) who will know of His Teaching.

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. -- John 7:17

free will does not mean one can lose salvation.

Those who recieve his gift of eternal life have free will.

God promise is eternal.. based on that faith..

 

[1disciple]

Again, the Gospels reveal over and over the conditional nature of Salvation based upon remaining faithful to the end.

For example, Mark 13:13 reads "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

This then implies that the one who does endure to the end shall not be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, the Gospels reveal over and over the conditional nature of Salvation based upon remaining faithful to the end.

For example, Mark 13:13 reads "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

This then implies that the one who does endure to the end shall not be saved.

That is talking about end times. And the great war and persecution which is to come. This is proven by the fact he did not say if you endure, But the one who endures.. If he was talking to them, and warning them, he would have said, If you.. And we would know he also spoke to us, He was not telling them to endure to be saved eternally, They already had eternal life/ As peter said, You have the words which give life. Not our works, YOUR WORD. And WE BELIEVE in what you say!

He is talking about saving their physical life, not spiritual life.

Are you going to continue to sit there and call Jesus a liar? Have you even read John 3, John 6 and the many other things Jesus said about eternal life??

 

[1disciple]

Another issue that can cause people to lose their Salvation is to begin twisting Scripture and teaching false doctrines. Salvation is conditioned upon remainful faithful in the truthful proclamation of the Good Current of Christ.

Peter speaks of some in his time who had brought destruction upon themselves by simply twisting Apostle Paul's Epistles to suit their own ends.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. -- 2 Peter 3:16

 

[1disciple]

Christ is very bold in his proclamation in Revelation and grants the victory only to the Victor through faithful endurance.

Seven time in Revelation Christ states "To him that overcometh". We overcome and win the Victory of Salvation just as Christ overcame and won the Victory of Salvation. For Christ states, As I overcame, so he shall overcome. And it is by Fidelity to the Covenant to the End.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ is very bold in his proclamation in Revelation and grants the victory only to the Victor through faithful endurance.

Seven time in Revelation Christ states "To him that overcometh". We overcome and win the Victory of Salvation just as Christ overcame and won the Victory of Salvation. For Christ states, As I overcame, so he shall overcome. And it is by Fidelity to the Covenant to the End.

Christ was not talking about salvation.

But if you THINK you can meet Gods standard (rom 3: 23) then feel free to try.

Meanwhile, while you excuse your sin and declare yourself righteous. Thos of us who trust God will continue to run the race, knowing we not can never obtain it, thus we will never stop trying, because, like Paul. We know we must ocntinue to go forward. if we want God to give and use us all he wants..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Another issue that can cause people to lose their Salvation is to begin twisting Scripture and teaching false doctrines. Salvation is conditioned upon remainful faithful in the truthful proclamation of the Good Current of Christ.

You mean like you? Trying to EARN you way in by works of the flesh. What was it Paul said? why are you so FOOLISh having begun in the spirit, do you now think you can PERFECT yourself in the flesh.

Peter speaks of some in his time who had brought destruction upon themselves by simply twisting Apostle Paul's Epistles to suit their own ends.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. -- 2 Peter 3:16

Nope. Peter was speaking of people who thought they were saved, But never were, because they twisted Pauls teaching.

Paul is twisted in two ways.

I say a pray and poof. I am saved, Do not have to change anything.

I say I am saved, But must work to keep it.

Both are lies from satan. Both are based on PRIDE. I (do not have to) I can earn my salvation.

I think it is quite amazing, and telling, That 3 or 4 times now you have been directed to John 3 and 6. yet not once have you even spoke on it.

This tells enough.

Anyone can make scripture to say what he wants, But when you make Jesus contradict himself. And when brought to your attention, Ignore it, then your true self is exposed.

 

[homwardbound]

But a caterpillar doesn't instantly become a butterfly. If something detrimental happens during the process of transformation, no butterfly.

Yes, but God is Faithful and knows your heart and what you desire the most, and so God whom is the only one righteous, makes the call and you are safe in God and brought home in the Spirit to him instantly. Out of body present with the Lord.
Saul who became Paul had to learn much. But before he could learn truth and be set free and I am crucified and yet still live, he had to learn all a new, of what he had learned.
It is like, me, God comes and says so you want to know, and I say yes Sir. So God says see what is behind you and I look and see a chalk board with all sorts of writing on it of my life that was.
God says to me, you see all that is written there? I say yes, and do you see that eraser? I say yes, and God says erase the whole board, and I say but that is my life here on earth from the time I was born. God say yes it is. Erase it all and I (God) will teach you the truth that sets you free in me.
This is what happened to Saul when he became Paul. He did not confer with flesh and blood, as we all seem to do. It is not bad to confer with flesh and blood, but can be detrimental, if we do not sift all through God to know truth from error.
God is righteous and is the only one that is. I am a wreck am saved through Son Christ, and thankful for this and this alone.
If someone or something comes along and destroys one's cocoon, God is Faithful, Humans are not. God did what God did for us all, and yes by true belief God knowing who the ones are God saves in an instant. We just do not see it, being of flesh and blood that will never please God. So as while still here grow in God by asking God for the full truth to help others to see the truth that God does just love us all, and respond to that, and see, not physically anymore Spiritually
[h=3]Romans 11:6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]6 [/SUP]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:9
not of works, lest any man should boast.