What Laws are still valid to christians

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So are you saying as long as one has accepted the Messiah they may transgrees Yahweh's Laws all they want with no curses at all?

lol. No according to lev 26. no. But they will be chasten by God. if they are true believers. And they will feel the guilt ans shame which comes with it, And suffer the consequences of their sin. God is not just going to remove that because we confess..

But we are talking about lev 26 here, and the blessings which came from mosaic law. Not what happens to a child of God today when they sin, Whole other topic!


Tell me one Law you can break and not recieve the curses named in Leviticus (besides instant death penalty) may you fornicate? No, STDs, may you animal husbandry? No, STDs. May you steal? No, you will be cursing yourself and who you stole from.. Worship gods? No, one will lose Yahweh's protection no matter what Law they break, even tose that have accepted the Messiah, we can still have merc through confession to Yahweh and repentance, but none the less if we commit sin the curses still apply. Why do you tjhink children get cancer, the curses from breaking Yahweh's Laws. Why are whole nations in poverty? The curses from breaking Yahweh's Laws. ETC ETC ETC.
ok. So I follow Gods law as given to moses. I do it everyday, I look to him.

Show me when I will get me land, Be blessed in that land, Not be persecuted by my enemies. etc etc.. It goes both ways my friend..


Here is an endtime prophecy, where the world is in chaos, cursed, and even destroyed because the breaking of Yahweh's Laws:

Isayah 24:4-6, "The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Lukje 24:25, "Then He said to them: O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

what does this have to do with Lev 26?? Stick to the topic at hand my friend!
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,040
240
63

lol.. This makes no sense.

when I do Good, God gets credit, When I do bad. it is my fault.. So much for the power of God.

How about putting yourself in a position to see what God wants you to do right now. If you do this, you will not need the law. Or need to worry about who gets credit. You will not think of Sin, Of Self or anything but what is put in front of you. You will not sin, And you did not follow some law book.

That is how God wants us to be, not follow some law/.
When you love your neighbor who swears at you all the time by turning the other cheek and pray for him, how did you go about doing it? Did God and His Spirit show you how to love them and give you the wherewithall to do it?

When you yell back at your neighbor and curse Him, did God and His Spirit cause you to do that?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
This was given to God's people. If you'd like to make the distinction between Jews and Gentile, that's fine. We'll disagree on that.

Why? gentiles who wanted to be part of th eblessings had to follow the mosaic law too to recieve those blessings.

Why are you trying to ignore the subject?? Was lev 26 given to us today or not?


Again, Paul's comments in Galatians regarding circumcision is all about coming against those who seek circumcision for standing before God. Again, I am not. If you refuse to accept my stance on that, I obviously can't change that.
yes, and no. It was given to people who were trying to say a gentile had to be circumcised also. Did you not just make that same claim??
Both people can and do follow the commands. But only those who have that faith and trust in Jesus' sacrifice can understand and experience the full breadth of the commands.
Both people? which do you mean, what people?? not sure what you mean here

I keep going back to Jesus' commands that His followers are to follow the law and to teach others to do so. No amount of verses from Paul change that. No amount of man-made reasoning can change that. Jesus' words are the original Gospel. If Jesus says we are to follow the Law, Paul must agree with Him. Therefore all of the verses where Paul apparently speaks against the law have been misinterpreted.

Very few people in here have dealt with Jesus's words in Matthew 5. People are quick to address the 1 word "fulfill". People are very quick to quote Paul. Very few take a look at all of Matthew 5 to see what He says about the Law.
lol again. Who does this?

people who follow law

or people who follow God every minute apart from their lives? who do not even think about the law excpet when it exposes their sin??

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
When you love your neighbor who swears at you all the time by turning the other cheek and pray for him, how did you go about doing it? Did God and His Spirit show you how to love them and give you the wherewithall to do it?

When you yell back at your neighbor and curse Him, did God and His Spirit cause you to do that?

When I do either.. Do I do it because of the law? Or do i do it because God has shown his love and forgiveness to me. so I share the love of God he showed me first to my neighbor?

You think I need to the law to show me I need to love someone? You would be in error if you think this. I do not even think of the law when I show Gods love, i don;t need to. it pours out from the love of God given to me.

Only when I curse does the law come in. it shows me I failed. and I need to trust God next time and confess that sin.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,040
240
63

Why? gentiles who wanted to be part of th eblessings had to follow the mosaic law too to recieve those blessings.

Why are you trying to ignore the subject?? Was lev 26 given to us today or not?




yes, and no. It was given to people who were trying to say a gentile had to be circumcised also. Did you not just make that same claim??


Both people? which do you mean, what people?? not sure what you mean here



lol again. Who does this?

people who follow law

or people who follow God every minute apart from their lives? who do not even think about the law excpet when it exposes their sin??

If anyone wants to experience blessings in this life, its wise to follow God's commands, whether Mosaic or Spiritual. Yes, I think Leviticus 26 applies to Christians today. I think all of the Torah applies to all Christians. To anyone who calls Himself by His name. It just depends on WHY your'e doing it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
If anyone wants to experience blessings in this life, its wise to follow God's commands, whether Mosaic or Spiritual. Yes, I think Leviticus 26 applies to Christians today. I think all of the Torah applies to all Christians. To anyone who calls Himself by His name. It just depends on WHY your'e doing it.
lol. Ok so when is God going to give us the land of palestine? And keep those who are doing his will from being persecuted, and being hurt by their enemies.

Your on a dangerous slope. People have walked away from God because he has not given them the blessings found in lev 26 when they do follow him all they can. Which was never promised to them in the first place.

If your going to say lev 26 pertains to us, You better show why God is not keeping his word to is in ALL these areas?

For example? Am I a prisoner in a gentile nations because I have sinned and failed to repent?? This is what Lev 26 says will happen for disobedience!
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Show me when I will get me land, Be blessed in that land, Not be persecuted by my enemies. etc etc.. It goes both ways my friend..

what does this have to do with Lev 26?? Stick to the topic at hand my friend!
Blessings still apply for obedience to Yahweh's Law and curses still apply for disobedience to Yahweh's Law, period.

Here is an endtime prophecy, where the world is in chaos, cursed, and even destroyed because the breaking of Yahweh's Laws:

Isayah 24:4-6, "The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Luke 24:25, "Then He said to them: O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

And the most important blessing:

Mattithyah 5:19 "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Why would Yahshua say one "will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh" FOR DOING AND TEACHING OTHERS TO OBEY THE LAW" if that was a recipe for the lake of fire?
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
Yes, this is truth, so what do you follow the Spirit of the Law as I see you saying you do, and not the letter. thanks, for the letter kills and the Spirit gives life and we do justly, love Mercy and walk humbly unto Father, through Son
What most people don't understand is that was the intent from the beginning, that it is supposed to be the tool to kill. If it wasn't then Christ's death would mean nothing to us. Where we go wrong is that we are to use, and study the law to die daily. That's why the law is Holy and Good. It's the Word of God. With all the rhetoric concerning the law, others are saying that it was abolished, and done way with. I think it's very sad that people do that. To follow the precepts of the will of God, show that we care about Him and love Him. We aren't justified by it, but the commandment is to love Him by adhering to the teaching of the Law. Can we do it perfectly? No! But we should understand the principles of His Holy will. We are to use it to see where we stand, and no matter how good we are at following those commandments, we still fall short. That doesn't mean we should give up because of His grace. If we put the law down, and defame its purpose just to say we are no longer under it, we improperly place it, by replacing it. It has it's purpose to teach us about Jesus, our Father and the temptations that even Jesus faced. Jesus resisted the devil by the writings of the Old Testament. It shows us our carnal nature, and more. It's the Word of God! Why would we ever think it's a bad thing, and say that Jesus abolished it when He said just the opposite?

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
So are you saying as long as one has accepted the Messiah they may transgrees Yahweh's Laws all they want with no curses at all?
There is no curse in Christ. Keep your eyes on him and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh and thus violate the law. Keep your eyes on yourself vis-a-vis the law and you will live under the curse of the law no matter how obedient to it you think you are.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Romans 8:1, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Yahshua Messiah, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 Yahchanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked."

Any can say He is in me I am in Him, but is it really so accroding to Scripture?

CONTEXT of Romans 8:

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

All roads to the kingdom of Yahweh lead to:

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua"

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Which seed are you? The seed that follows directions or the seed that fights those who follow directions?
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
Romans 8:1, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Yahshua Messiah, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 Yahchanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked."

Any can say He is in me I am in Him, but is it really so accroding to Scripture?

CONTEXT of Romans 8:

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

All roads to the kingdom of Yahweh lead to:

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua"

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Which seed are you? The seed that follows directions or the seed that fights those who follow directions?
Excellent!!
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
.Matthew 5 17-20
20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven
.
clearly speaking to jewish people.(how do i know what a teacher or pharisee is. but to the crowd that he was speaking to must have.(jewish people) ie i read it in the bible. 2000 pluss on.
he went to the cross,
died,
rose again ,

before going, telling them to go back and wait for the gift (for short)

went up to heaven,
24For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence
.(to get the athority to send the gift, or enter the tent.) do not know how else to explain it
7"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
(beginning at penticost and following on to gentiles etc)
18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished
history 2000 years onetc
a bible
an gentiles (every nation on earth that is not jewish ),and jewish christains. being brought to being saved ( the lamb book of life)
or how history is worked out ,and came to christains through the bible,or any wisdom that can be gained through reading the bible etc.
there is a difference between old and new. break law of the land , they will send you to jail;yet if i breck law of the land they will punish me, not save me. (they needed animals for the forgivness , yet the new covenent need a prayer and faith.)
(note) the phairees , took a share of the tiths and sin offering etc ,( so was a slap in the teeth to them. you been fired )this new covenent to them.
the new covenent, the teacher of a father to a child,forgivness etc (hs) that will lead me through life and the through the valley of death. etc
 
 
 
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Blessings still apply for obedience to Yahweh's Law and curses still apply for disobedience to Yahweh's Law, period.
Once again, the context is lev 26. Not blessing or cursing to church age believers.

I know people who do all they can to do Gods will. Yet suffer sever persecution. Are you saying (as some do) they are perecuted because of sin??

do you want to discuss lev 26 or not??
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Once again, the context is lev 26. Not blessing or cursing to church age believers.

I know people who do all they can to do Gods will. Yet suffer sever persecution. Are you saying (as some do) they are perecuted because of sin??

do you want to discuss lev 26 or not??
Proverbs 26:2, "As a fluttering sparrow, or a flying swallow will alight, so a curse causeless will not come."

Tests, chastening, can come because of thepoint of fleshly existance, but curses only come from disobedience.

What most people consider to be "God's will" is not actually what the Scriptures say is the will of Yahweh.

As a world we are so far from the will of Yahweh it is not even on the radar, again Isayah 24:1-6 shows the reality of the worldgoing astray from Yahweh's will and the earth is devoured by the curse.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Proverbs 26:2, "As a fluttering sparrow, or a flying swallow will alight, so a curse causeless will not come."

Tests, chastening, can come because of thepoint of fleshly existance, but curses only come from disobedience.

What most people consider to be "God's will" is not actually what the Scriptures say is the will of Yahweh.

As a world we are so far from the will of Yahweh it is not even on the radar, again Isayah 24:1-6 shows the reality of the worldgoing astray from Yahweh's will and the earth is devoured by the curse.
ok. Thanks, You have no desire to discuss lev 26. I guess this discussion is over, and you have failed to prove your point.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
ok. Thanks, You have no desire to discuss lev 26. I guess this discussion is over, and you have failed to prove your point.
Leviticus 26 is irrelevant to my point, you keep trying to lock my words and quoted Scriptures to it.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
Which seed are you? The seed that follows directions or the seed that fights those who follow directions?
I only follow directions in the old testament if they are in harmony with and don't contradict those found in the new testament. For example, you seem to think that there is a blessing for those who are under old covenant law, but Paul clearly teaches that no man can keep the law, and those who try to do so are cursed. So in this case I follow the NT admonition to believe and love, rather than anything that might contradict this in the OT.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
Tests, chastening, can come because of thepoint of fleshly existance, but curses only come from disobedience.
You obviously don't give much credence to what Paul says. Those under the law are under a curse. Those who don't follow the spirit via faith are under the law.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

For the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it.
_________________________________





Luke 24:25, "Then He said to them: O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
You obviously don't give much credence to what Paul says. Those under the law are under a curse. Those who don't follow the spirit via faith are under the law.
You consistently twist Shaul's words at every chance. There is only ONE writer in all the Scriptures that is being singled out as "hard to be understood" and that is Shaul, I find it telling that people who follow these false doctrine, ALMOST exclusively quote Shaul and twist the meaning of his words. I know you think different, we agree to disagree?

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Only the Spiritually minded person can even subject themself to Yahweh's Law, PERIOD.

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity to the Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

The oppisition to yahweh;s instructions was abolished, not the Law it's self.

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

It is impossible to have HIS LAW written on your heart if you are in oppisition (enmity) to it, so the ENMITY was abolished.

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Again:

"I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts"