What Laws are still valid to christians

[Married_Richenbrachen]

They were talking about circumcision in order to be right before God. Circumcision wasn't originally intended for that.

1 Cor 7:18 - 19 [SUP]18 [/SUP]Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

If this was what God intended, wouldn't Paul have written something along the lines of "Is any called in uncircumcision? Let him be circumcised, not for his salvation, but as a testimony of good conscience toward God."? He would have treated the issue the same as he treated marriage - "It is best for a man to be circumcised", or something. That he was only talking about salvation does not make sense or fit the scripture. I think the preaching of circumcision and law-keeping for standing with God is a dangerous doctrine. And if you do not think it is for these reasons - for what reason is it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The laws are not valid. The REASON Jesus followed them was because he was of Jewish decent. Is that to say it is not good to follow them? Absolutely not. I try to follow them but it is because I want too but not because I have too. The 10 commandments were for the Jews but when applied to anyone's life, only benefit occurs.

No. The reason Jesus followed them was so he could fulfill them, and not be in sin.

The law shows us what is sin and what is not. To say the law is no longer valid to show us this is against the word of God.

the question is. Can I be made or seen as righteous by following the law? The answer is no. because the law can not show me how to do what it demands I do.

 

[KohenMatt]

What game are you playing with me? You asked why he was circumcised, and I told you in so many words it was because he was a son of Israel who was bound by the law of the old covenant to be circumcised. Now you're twisting things around to make what point? That we're under the law? Fine, be under the law. You're cursed.

What is your definition of "under the law"?

 

[homwardbound]

Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as you do yourself!!

many do not love themselves, so how can we love as God loves unless we see the Love of God first through Son Christ?
Because of God's love that is unfathomable to flesh, and is known only in the Spirit of God, one can't love as God does, until one finalizes the cross where all life and riches are found in the risen Christ?

 

[KohenMatt]

So are you busy working at keeping it? Or are you at rest in that Jesus has done it for you via his death and resurrection?
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

If you by Christ through his death are made Holy, perfect unto Father, then one receives new life in they believe Father and Love as God loves, in 1 Cor. 13:4-13. And this type of Love written there, no flesh can do, but Christ alone right? So thus we are now led by the Spirit of God right, not the letter of the Law yes? More now the Spirit of the Law, which is Love to all right?

I rest in my relationship with Jesus knowing that nothing I do, either good or bad can ever change that. I just don't want to sit on my keister thanking God for that. I want to be alight unto the world, to go into the world and make disciples. Sure I do that through the spirit living through me, but it also occurs when I try to be a imitator of God through my actions.

 

[homwardbound]

God is not the author of confusion. confusion comes from the devil. However if your faith is placed firmly in the cross and nothing else and especially what you are doing, it is as clear as a bell

We see new life through agreeing to be dead to self with Christ at the cross. At least I do, thanks

 

[homwardbound]

So the God who wrote the Law was "under the old covenant" yet somehow says we shouldn't be "under the old covenant", yet He still tells us to follow the Law?

[h=3]Hebrews 9:15-17[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

[h=3]Hebrews 7:11-12[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

 

[KohenMatt]

You're making a mockery of Christ's sacrifice. You crucify Christ to yourself again and again each time you revert back to the law. Christ is not a perpetual mulligan for those under law. Nor is he a get-out-of-jail-free card that can be used over and over again. The sacrifice was made once for sins committed under the old covenant. We are under a new covenant with new laws.

Again, you're trying REALLY hard to make me look like I'm being obedient for salvation's sake, to atone for my sins, or to get me into heaven. You're just wrong.

Search the scriptures diligently. I'm sure you will find many things in the law that you are not doing. Trying to separate the sacrificial parts of the law from the whole law is a travesty and wickedness.

No kidding. That's what I said. I fail at it all the time. Thankfully, I'm not required to be perfect at it. (Unless you want to say that obedience to the laws requires perfection.........if Im trying to earn salvation).

 

[homwardbound]

You might find out the subtle difference by understanding and researching the meaning of "Torah", and the meaning of "Mitzvat" or "Mitzvah." (same word). It has to do with teaching, and acting upon it. It was very interesting to me.

Cool, and to each their own, none of us are nothing more that waterers and or planters, knowing that it is God that gives the increase, and thank you for your posts. There is much to be learned from each other, if we all take it in stride and ask Father who lives in us to discern truth from Error. And this is where we receive from Father, thanks to Christ the truth that sets each of us free in God to love as God loves in the Spirit of God that is

 

[KohenMatt]

You're just making things up. Or just repeating what others have made up.

Then please quote for us the instruction regarding circumcision, and we'll see whether your accusation that I'm making things up is true. If you want to call me a liar because i said circumcision is only a sign, prove it. Look it up and quote God's instruction regarding circumcision. (Hint: It's in Genesis 17)

And don't back away from this. If you're going to call someone a liar, you better be ready to prove it.

 

[homwardbound]

No. The reason Jesus followed them was so he could fulfill them, and not be in sin.

The law shows us what is sin and what is not. To say the law is no longer valid to show us this is against the word of God.

the question is. Can I be made or seen as righteous by following the law? The answer is no. because the law can not show me how to do what it demands I do.

Because flesh is weak and the Law is perfect and so is God, therefore we need to be born again in the Spirit of God, via the cross of Christ. First the death which truly is to be our death to self first, so God takes us from there and gives us new life in the resurrection and we are born again in the Spirit of God by Faith in God doing this through his Son Christ

flesh Spirit before being born again is willing, yet not being born again the flesh is weak
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

And that was prior to the death, burial and resurrection. Where now after the cross we are offered a free gift form Father to be born again in the Spirit of God, living in us. If one believes

 

[KohenMatt]

Um not sure I agree.

Circumcision was a sign given to Israel as part of their covenant with God. We have no part in this covenant. so do not see the connection.

I think it should be, yes, because it is a health issue. But to say I would tell a 20 y/o man to be circumcised because God commands it. I can not see it.

I would suggest looking at all of the covenants God made and see whether you think you have a part in it based on the same criteria you're using to exempt yourself from the Mosaic covenant. I think you'll find you're missing out on some heavy stuff.

 

[KohenMatt]

And that is the Law of Love, so if:
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Yet at the same time:
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
So either we love this world and the things in it or we Love God above all things in and of this world?

I love God. I don't love the commands. I follow the commands because I love God.

 

[Hizikyah]

Walking in the Spirit is not rejecting everything the Spirit says

Mattithyah 5:17-19, "Do not even think gthat I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to establish/fulfill them."

2 times He said He did not come to abolish the Law but most read read it the Law has been abolished through fulfillment. Also, has ALL the Law and prophets been fulfilled? No, there is stil work to be done, the Sacrifice is complete, but the are still priestly duties Yahshua is fulfilling EVERY DAY and the are many "OT" prophecies and endtime prophecies that Yahshua still has yet to fulfill.

18 "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Did heaven and erth pass? Have all things been perfected? No? Than according the THE MESSIAH NOTHING HAS PASSED FROM THE LAW, not even the smallest letter.

19 "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Why would Yahshua say one "will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh" FOR DOING AND TEACHING OTHERS TO OBEY THE LAW" if that was a recipe for the lake of fire?

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 24:35, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words will not pass away."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Which seed are you? The seed that follows directions or the seed that fights those who follow directions?

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua"

Revelation 22:12-14, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

This is the final Scripture give, the Revelation of Yahshua Messiah, the Savior clearly states that those who keep the Laws/Commandments will have right to the tree of life. If you have a problem with this dont argue it with me, you need to argue it with the Messiah.

 

[Misty77]

The Jerusalem council already addressed this in Acts 15. The Mosaic laws applied to believers, as directed by the Holy Spirit, are the ones pertaining to met with blood, idolatry, and formication.

 

[KohenMatt]

1 Cor 7:18 - 19 [SUP]18 [/SUP]Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

If this was what God intended, wouldn't Paul have written something along the lines of "Is any called in uncircumcision? Let him be circumcised, not for his salvation, but as a testimony of good conscience toward God."? He would have treated the issue the same as he treated marriage - "It is best for a man to be circumcised", or something. That he was only talking about salvation does not make sense or fit the scripture. I think the preaching of circumcision and law-keeping for standing with God is a dangerous doctrine. And if you do not think it is for these reasons - for what reason is it?

Circumcision is a sign of the covenant made between God and man. The covenant was already made. The circumcision was the sign. If someone decides they don't need that particular sign, then that's between them and God. I also remember that covenant on my own. I just choose to be obedient to Gods command.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would suggest looking at all of the covenants God made and see whether you think you have a part in it based on the same criteria you're using to exempt yourself from the Mosaic covenant. I think you'll find you're missing out on some heavy stuff.

I think you need to read lev 26. Which tells us what the mosaic covenant was given for. and what blessings and cursings would be given for not obeying.

I have no land promise. Only Isreal does. You also need to read galations.. which speaks of this very subject..

 

[homwardbound]

I rest in my relationship with Jesus knowing that nothing I do, either good or bad can ever change that. I just don't want to sit on my keister thanking God for that. I want to be alight unto the world, to go into the world and make disciples. Sure I do that through the spirit living through me, but it also occurs when I try to be a imitator of God through my actions.

Only the Spirit of God working through us can bring others into the Kingdom and is why those Disciples had to wait why?
Because we can do nothing without Christ
[h=3]John 15[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

So I see we are to be led by Father through the Holy Ghost that Father sealed in us the first day of belief, yes?

[h=3]Ephesians 1:13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


We grow after we are first born unto and into maturity as an orange does hanging off a tree branch. When an orange is first born it is a perfect orange is it not? The problem is that it is not yet ripe, mature.
That is how God, works in each of our lives personally, yes and we quit stupid behaviors over time and growth, God doing the maturing in us, the Author and finisher of our Faith, do you agree with this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I love God. I don't love the commands. I follow the commands because I love God.

How do you follow them? And according to what you just said, you follow them under your power to show your love for God. Where in scripture does it say we can be able to do this??

 

[KohenMatt]

Hebrews 9:15-17

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 7:11-12

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Right, it's in context of seeking perfection. I cannot seek perfection through anything but grace. Doesn't mean I can't walk in obedience to godly commands.