Does Science go against faith?

Married_Richenbrachen · Sep 29, 2013

If you treat the bible as an infallible (2 Tim 3:16), historical record, which it is, you will come to an age of the Earth of ~6000 years. Maybe a hundred or so more. I don't believe any methods such as radiometric dating are as accurate as a historical record, especially not an infallible, historical record.

Starcrash said:

This depends on whether you believe the Earth is stationary or not. If the Earth is stationary, which I believe it is, and which scripture seems to confirm (note the Heavens and Earth are created days before the sun and moon!), the stars are much, much closer than millions of years. I doubt any fundamentalist accepts the 7 days of Genesis are anything other than the 7 days God tells us they are.

AvalonXQ · Sep 29, 2013

The Earth is rotating. You can determine that yourself with Foucault's pendulum.

JHM · Sep 29, 2013

GOD killed the dinosaurs for man's benefit. They died as a result of a major asteroid strike which left a layer of lava rich in Iridium which is a very rare metal. See :

[h=3]Impact event[/h]Main article: Chicxulub crater

The Chicxulub Crater at the tip of the Yucatán Peninsula; the impactor that formed this crater may have caused the dinosaur extinction.

The asteroid collision theory, which was brought to wide attention in 1980 by Walter Alvarez and colleagues, links the extinction event at the end of the Cretaceous period to a bolide impact approximately 65 million years ago. Alvarez et al. proposed that a sudden increase in iridium levels, recorded around the world in the period's rock stratum, was direct evidence of the impact.[SUP][130][/SUP] The bulk of the evidence now suggests that a bolide 5 to 15 kilometers (3 to 9 mi) wide hit in the vicinity of the Yucatán Peninsula (in southeastern Mexico), creating the approximately 180 km (110 mi) Chicxulub Crater and triggering the mass extinction.[SUP][131][/SUP][SUP][132][/SUP] Scientists are not certain whether dinosaurs were thriving or declining before the impact event. Some scientists propose that the meteorite caused a long and unnatural drop in Earth's atmospheric temperature, while others claim that it would have instead created an unusual heat wave. The consensus among scientists who support this theory is that the impact caused extinctions both directly (by heat from the meteorite impact) and also indirectly (via a worldwide cooling brought about when matter ejected from the impact crater reflected thermal radiation from the sun). Although the speed of extinction cannot be deduced from the fossil record alone, various models suggest that the extinction was extremely rapid, being down to hours rather than years.

JHM · Sep 29, 2013

Note : With respect of my foregoing post, I would point out to those who believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, that Albert Einstein discovered that time is relative to the speed at which that which experiences said time is travelling. So if GOD travelled at the speed of light, (at which speed time stops), one day of his time could be millions of years on earth.

thecreationtutor · Sep 29, 2013

Blain said:

Operational Science is good Science

Evolution is Historical Science - which is not Science

Science doesn't say anything - it's a tool set - people with a Bias say things,

Sanashankar · Sep 30, 2013

Blain said:

How can we say evolution is part of science when it is not true and is against our faith? Everything is of God. The law of science too. God made the law of science. how can it be against the maker? Anything that tries to disapprove God is not actual science and is man made theories.

Sanashankar · Sep 30, 2013

Married_Richenbrachen said:

Bible is very clear about the creation. There is no proof that God created the heaven and earth in six literal days.
the word "day--yom" has a multitude of uses representing different lengths of time:In Gen. 2:4, the SAME SIX DAYS mentioned in Gen. 1 are called "THE [singular] day." The whole judgment period of the whole world is called "A day" in Acts 17:31, etc.

In Gen. 2:4 the creation is described in greater detail regarding the creation of humanity. Notice verse 4: "These are the generations [genealogical annuls] of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, IN THE DAY that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." The word "day" in this verse is the same #3117 word used in chapter one, but here it represents THE WHOLE PERIOD OF CREATION!! All the creation and all the six days are called the one singular "day."

Ever wondered how there was gold in the garden of eden? I have heard that it takes millions of years to get gold from volcanoes. Six literal days and there is gold in the garden or six stages long enuf to make gold?

Huckleberry · Sep 30, 2013

Sanashankar said:

Gold was evidently ubiquitous before the Flood, not just in the GoE. See Genesis 2:12.
Also, gold is a seemingly abundant element, so much so that God paves streets with it.

megaman125 · Sep 30, 2013

Not to mention that God isn't limited by what you think takes millions of years to accomplish.

4enlightment · Sep 30, 2013

Kreation said:

The Kingdom of God was in Jerusalem, physically. The Ark was His throne. Basically God was just going along with us by trying to protect the physical kingdom (and which it doesn't do anything for Him because He is a spirit) and which it was just plain ole' matter. But now He is bringing in His kingdom that is built without hands, and doesn't collapse (The spiritual realm). God had played along with us by showing that the physical realm cannot exist, because it lead to failure, but we are so attached to this realm that we will not circumcise ourselves from it. So God is trying to wean us from this realm. Jesus has ended the physical agreement to be redeemed (And which the Flesh cannot uphold because it's weak) between Flesh and God. God remove His presence temporary from us to let things happen so that we will detached ourselves spiritually from this realm, and to the ones that doesn't, will perish with it.

John 12:43for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

John 12:25Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

John 14:28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

1 John 2:15[ On Not Loving the World ] Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

Starcrash · Sep 30, 2013

Married_Richenbrachen said:

I'm an atheist. Clearly I don't treat the bible as an infallible record, particularly because of claims such as a young Earth.

The Earth is not stationary -- Galileo and Copernicus proved geocentrism was a failed theory centuries ago, and even many fundamentalists don't accept that everything in the universe rotates around the Earth (because it doesn't). The reason that other fundamentalists are okay with letting this one go is because it wouldn't prove anything. The idea that a stationary Earth would make the stars much closer is a non sequitar... they are completely unrelated ideas.

As you noted, the Earth was made much sooner than the sun... so what exactly would mark the days? How long is a day in a universe without a sun? And if you believe in this literal interpretation of Genesis, how do you reconcile the idea that plants were created a day before the sun? We know from scientific research that our planet is warmed by the sun, and without it we'd all freeze to death in a matter of minutes. Plants require the sun for warmth as well, let alone food via photosynthesis. How could this order of creation make sense, especially if you believe that the plants had to wait a "day" for the sun to arrive?

Starcrash · Sep 30, 2013

JHM said:

God is not the intended audience of this passage. Whether or not God sees time differently than we do, telling his audience (us) that it took days is ambiguous at best and misleading at worst.

4enlightment · Sep 30, 2013

What if we doesn't have anything in the solar system like the sun, moon, and stars; would there be any day? We would be able to tell time. What if the whole solar system speed up like the orbiting planets, moon, and stars? We wouldn't know. Eternal is when time stop. God is in control all things.

Why is Time Speeding Up?

Time perception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1 Corinthians 15:52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Job 1:7The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

James 4:14Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

Starcrash · Sep 30, 2013

4enlightment said:

If we didn't have anything to measure time, then my response is still the same: calling the creation period "days" is misleading.

The page about time speeding up makes spurious claims about "Earth's heartbeat", and the "source" is another random person who doesn't cite this fact. Its existence appears to be based on scientific fact, but the "speeding up" of the "heartbeat" is completely made up (and it wouldn't prove anything about the movement of time even if it wasn't).

CoooCaw · Sep 30, 2013

4enlightment said:

What if we doesn't have anything in the solar system like the sun, moon, and stars; would there be any day? We would be able to tell time. What if the whole solar system speed up like the orbiting planets, moon, and stars? We wouldn't know. Eternal is when time stop. God is in control all things.

Why is Time Speeding Up?

Time perception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1 Corinthians 15:52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Job 1:7The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

James 4:14Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

Actually there IS something going on. Year by year orbital time does not agree with atomic time. This can only mean that certain universal constants AREN'T; most likely the speed of light is decreasing.

posthuman · Sep 30, 2013

4enlightment said:

um....

"This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?"

Isaiah 66:1

posthuman · Sep 30, 2013

CoooCaw said:

orbital time shouldn't be the same as atomic time. atomic time uses an intertial reference frame, but orbital time doesn't. it was the verification of gravity's effect on time (from relativity theory predictions) that caused the international bureau of standards to switch to atomic time for the definition of a second.

entropy suggests time should be slowing, so atomic time should not be accurate either.

i agree with you, honestly, in that i suspect fundamental constants have not always had the same value -- it's a bonafide idea taken on faith in physics; there is no proof, it's assumption, and it takes some serious cosmology to test any such notion, cosmology all done on the assumption it's true.

but what you're describing doesn't have bearing on the constancy of the mass of an electron or anything, and it's due to a prediction Einstein's equations make.

Cycel · Sep 30, 2013

1disciple said:

Frankly, this claim is ridiculous, but if you think it's true back it up with some facts.

zone · Sep 30, 2013

Cycel said:

pssstt.....he can't.
gone bye bye.

posthuman · Sep 30, 2013

Starcrash said:

All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable.
This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:

“I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”

Matthew 13:34-35

Does Science go against faith?

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