The Devil has entered the Church!

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It doesn't bother me that many of you don't believe it. Anyone with the highest reputation in your minds could tell you, and the answer would be the same. You won't have it. You won't separate yourself from it for nothing in the world. No, not even the truth. You refuse to investigate it to the fullest because you know, and that's all you need. That speaks for itself..........


Don't worry about what I have to say......... Worry about who you will give an account to, for His standards are higher than all of ours combined.

let us indeed investigate to the fullest whether what we listen to edifies.

that is why your brothers and sisters here listen to the rock & rap music with Godly lyrics, by artists who profess Christ, instead of wordly lyrics, by secular artists, with ideals and principles that do not jive with our Life in the Spirit.

do you also investigate to the fullest the arguments i have brought to this thread?

have you read, that it is "the weaker brother" for whom eating some meats is a sin?

have you considered that the mystery revealed in the gospels of Christ is that He has made open the way for not only Jews, but Gentiles - the "unclean" races - can be also a part of the kingdom and have fellowship with Him? Have you thought this through to the fullest?

do you have respect of persons, of clothes or of haircuts when you judge a mans heart?

why then would you judge a song by the tone of it's instruments, the haircuts of the band or the city in which it was recorded? ought you not also to judge rightly, by the heart, whether the message of the song is in line with scripture?

will you also shut your ears to the truth? will you demand all music be circumcised?

neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything before God. don't we agree on this?

if the scripture says that there is a decibel limit on sound before it becomes unholy, show us this. if the scripture tells us that psalm 3 is an abomination if sung above some certain beats-per-minute, show us this. if the scripture teaches that Christ only ever spoke in a gentle, soothing whisper, show us this. If the scripture teaches that psalms may only be played on a pipe organ, and only with the ethereal and flute stops, so as not to be too loud, show us this.

but this is not at all what the Word says! the Word says "SHOUT TO THE LORD WITH CRIES OF JOY" (Psalm 47)

now is it a sin to shout as i sing Psalm 47?


in my church, there is a woman with down's syndrome, who can hardly speak. when she sings with the congregation, during service, it is a most un-melodious sound to most people. is her praise abomination?

i think to the LORD, he hears what is in her heart, and as terribly off key as it may be, to the LORD, her moans and shrieking is beautiful music

what do you say to that?

will you even answer, or do you "simply know" that an electric guitar or a scratchy voice is not possible to be used to praise God?

let all creation sing with joy! (Psalm 96:13)

is an elephant part of creation? what is the noise of an elephant's rejoicing?
is star part of creation? a star is an enormous fusion reaction, an enormous explosion.
what is the sound of an explosion rejoicing?

or will you not allow some creation to rejoice, if you don't find it's rejoicing pleasing to your ear?

this praise is not for your ears.

this is foolishness. have you read in the scripture how the apostles strove with Judaisers in the early years of the church, men who would add to the Grace that saves us all of the law? Have you read the epistle to the Galatians? why do you add laws and seasons and special classes of sounds, when these things aren't even in the Torah??

you are like a pharisee telling the poor man he cannot worship in the temple until he gets some nicer clothes. whose prayer was heard in this parable?

did Christ say the widow's mite was abominable because it wasn't shiny? because it wasn't a drachma? No!

i see we are all using the internet here -- the majority of all internet traffic is pornography. since this tool, the internet, is used mostly for unholy purposes, should we judge that to use the internet at all is sin?



why do you insist on calling the work of the Spirit in these musics the work of the devil? isn't there some certain scripture that tells of this particular confusion?

if i sing:
"Szema Israel, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Elohenu Ehad"
each day, and each day i sing it a little louder,
on what day does it turn from praise into sin?

isn't it obvious​ to you who say a certain sound is sinful how foolish that is?
 
Aug 15, 2009
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let us indeed investigate to the fullest whether what we listen to edifies.

that is why your brothers and sisters here listen to the rock & rap music with Godly lyrics, by artists who profess Christ, instead of wordly lyrics, by secular artists, with ideals and principles that do not jive with our Life in the Spirit.

do you also investigate to the fullest the arguments i have brought to this thread?

have you read, that it is "the weaker brother" for whom eating some meats is a sin?

have you considered that the mystery revealed in the gospels of Christ is that He has made open the way for not only Jews, but Gentiles - the "unclean" races - can be also a part of the kingdom and have fellowship with Him? Have you thought this through to the fullest?

do you have respect of persons, of clothes or of haircuts when you judge a mans heart?

why then would you judge a song by the tone of it's instruments, the haircuts of the band or the city in which it was recorded? ought you not also to judge rightly, by the heart, whether the message of the song is in line with scripture?

will you also shut your ears to the truth? will you demand all music be circumcised?

neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything before God. don't we agree on this?

if the scripture says that there is a decibel limit on sound before it becomes unholy, show us this. if the scripture tells us that psalm 3 is an abomination if sung above some certain beats-per-minute, show us this. if the scripture teaches that Christ only ever spoke in a gentle, soothing whisper, show us this. If the scripture teaches that psalms may only be played on a pipe organ, and only with the ethereal and flute stops, so as not to be too loud, show us this.

but this is not at all what the Word says! the Word says "SHOUT TO THE LORD WITH CRIES OF JOY" (Psalm 47)

now is it a sin to shout as i sing Psalm 47?


in my church, there is a woman with down's syndrome, who can hardly speak. when she sings with the congregation, during service, it is a most un-melodious sound to most people. is her praise abomination?

i think to the LORD, he hears what is in her heart, and as terribly off key as it may be, to the LORD, her moans and shrieking is beautiful music

what do you say to that?

will you even answer, or do you "simply know" that an electric guitar or a scratchy voice is not possible to be used to praise God?

let all creation sing with joy! (Psalm 96:13)

is an elephant part of creation? what is the noise of an elephant's rejoicing?
is star part of creation? a star is an enormous fusion reaction, an enormous explosion.
what is the sound of an explosion rejoicing?

or will you not allow some creation to rejoice, if you don't find it's rejoicing pleasing to your ear?

this praise is not for your ears.

this is foolishness. have you read in the scripture how the apostles strove with Judaisers in the early years of the church, men who would add to the Grace that saves us all of the law? Have you read the epistle to the Galatians? why do you add laws and seasons and special classes of sounds, when these things aren't even in the Torah??

you are like a pharisee telling the poor man he cannot worship in the temple until he gets some nicer clothes. whose prayer was heard in this parable?

did Christ say the widow's mite was abominable because it wasn't shiny? because it wasn't a drachma? No!

i see we are all using the internet here -- the majority of all internet traffic is pornography. since this tool, the internet, is used mostly for unholy purposes, should we judge that to use the internet at all is sin?



why do you insist on calling the work of the Spirit in these musics the work of the devil? isn't there some certain scripture that tells of this particular confusion?

if i sing:
"Szema Israel, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Elohenu Ehad"
each day, and each day i sing it a little louder,
on what day does it turn from praise into sin?

isn't it obvious​ to you who say a certain sound is sinful how foolish that is?
Like I said:
Don't worry about what I have to say......... Worry about who you will give an account to, for His standards are higher than all of ours combined.
Is this not true?
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
i think you should be worrying about the account you have to give when asked why you condemned things made for his glory
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,931
13,915
113
Like I said:
Don't worry about what I have to say......... Worry about who you will give an account to, for His standards are higher than all of ours combined.
Is this not true?
is this not also true?

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord

Collosians 3:16

won't it also be measured, if i have in my hand to expound the truth to those in darkness, and i don't?
how much more my fellow believers?
 
Dec 26, 2012
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The problem with believing the differences between me and them comes down to a single issue: Christians hold to double standards.

It doesn't matter if we preach, sing, play music, or whatever, Christian standards are to be the same. Some may say that music is different because it is entertainment. I say to you this:
  • If it is called Christian, it should be Christ-like.
  • If it is considered Christian music, that means it is God's music.
  • God's music is to be done by His standards, not ours, otherwise it's not His.



There is only one standard of holiness for all.



OK Stephen question for you,do you say a word about some of the classical music? Do you know what some of it is for?
Do you know some of the roots of that? Do you say anything about stuff like Wagner? How about any of the stuff like Cinderella,Snow White,Sleeping Beauty,etc? How about Shakespeare? Never mind much of it has themes about witches,demons,and sexuality outside of what God would have us do or is that passed over because it's classic and accepted?

Please define what makes it Christian if you can by the beat or rythmn? Can you do so from scripture? Please define when it crosses over from one to the other if you can. Not to say that there are things that do need to be addressed with some of the groups,but again it goes to DISCERNMENT. Not all of the music that is labeled Christian is Christian,nor are all the groups.

Please explain when the hair length is too long from scripture. Please define it. It is a military buzz cut? 2 inches,5 inches,10 inches? And never that Paul also in that passage says to look at nature,strange thing if one looks at nature there is an odd conundrum,ever take a good look at lions? It's not the females that have the long manes,but it's the MALES that have the long manes.

 
Dec 26, 2012
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Add to that can anyone find any other creature that you can show that the hair length is DIFFERENT between a male and a female?
 
Aug 15, 2009
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OK Stephen question for you,do you say a word about some of the classical music? Do you know what some of it is for?
Do you know some of the roots of that? Do you say anything about stuff like Wagner? How about any of the stuff like Cinderella,Snow White,Sleeping Beauty,etc? How about Shakespeare? Never mind much of it has themes about witches,demons,and sexuality outside of what God would have us do or is that passed over because it's classic and accepted?

Please define what makes it Christian if you can by the beat or rythmn? Can you do so from scripture? Please define when it crosses over from one to the other if you can. Not to say that there are things that do need to be addressed with some of the groups,but again it goes to DISCERNMENT. Not all of the music that is labeled Christian is Christian,nor are all the groups.

Please explain when the hair length is too long from scripture. Please define it. It is a military buzz cut? 2 inches,5 inches,10 inches? And never that Paul also in that passage says to look at nature,strange thing if one looks at nature there is an odd conundrum,ever take a good look at lions? It's not the females that have the long manes,but it's the MALES that have the long manes.

I was going to answer these individually, then I thought, "nah, Sarah will just keep aggravating like she always does".

I have already been stereotyped as "old school" 'cause I mentioned a little tidbit about hair.

Let me say in no uncertain terms, Length of hair is not an issue with me. It's when they get on stage with nappy, dirty, greasy, unkept hair. I've seen too many videos where band members get on stage & they looked like they hadn't had a bath or washed their hair in 2 weeks!

Then there's the habits & attitudes. "Some" are drug addicts. Some are alcoholics. Some run with the secular metal crowd, blending in nicely. Some have secular groupies. Many go on secular stages, playing by secular rules. For example Pillar has played at Ozfest. That's as bad as fellowshipping with the Satanic church on Halloween.

Some cuss & use foul language. Then there's the habit of looking "christian" by singing songs that only talk about fighting with the Devil. If you took away these songs alone, over 40% of "christian" heavy metal & scremo would dissappear.

The bottom line is: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, & fellowships with other ducks, then it's a duck.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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I was going to answer these individually, then I thought, "nah, Sarah will just keep aggravating like she always does".

I have already been stereotyped as "old school" 'cause I mentioned a little tidbit about hair.

Let me say in no uncertain terms, Length of hair is not an issue with me. It's when they get on stage with nappy, dirty, greasy, unkept hair. I've seen too many videos where band members get on stage & they looked like they hadn't had a bath or washed their hair in 2 weeks!

Then there's the habits & attitudes. "Some" are drug addicts. Some are alcoholics. Some run with the secular metal crowd, blending in nicely. Some have secular groupies. Many go on secular stages, playing by secular rules. For example Pillar has played at Ozfest. That's as bad as fellowshipping with the Satanic church on Halloween.

Some cuss & use foul language. Then there's the habit of looking "christian" by singing songs that only talk about fighting with the Devil. If you took away these songs alone, over 40% of "christian" heavy metal & scremo would dissappear.

The bottom line is: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, & fellowships with other ducks, then it's a duck.
And on a lot of this I do not disagree with you on. Again we need discernment to what we listen to. Again not all that say they are Christian are. I think the percentage of music that is passed off as Christian and is not is higher then 40%. Add to that,that it is NOT just in the "metal" (Which I myself do not get into because I can't understand what they are saying myself 90 % of the time) but you also have the "Jesus is my boy friend" music. Add to that a lot gets to the point you have no idea who they are talking about. And a lot is so cheap shallow and feeble. Three good reasons for discernment Amy Grant,Sandi Patti and Michael W Smith. Not everything is as it appears as it is on the surface. It comes down to discernment.


 
Aug 15, 2009
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And on a lot of this I do not disagree with you on. Again we need discernment to what we listen to. Again not all that say they are Christian are. I think the percentage of music that is passed off as Christian and is not is higher then 40%. Add to that,that it is NOT just in the "metal" (Which I myself do not get into because I can't understand what they are saying myself 90 % of the time) but you also have the "Jesus is my boy friend" music. Add to that a lot gets to the point you have no idea who they are talking about. And a lot is so cheap shallow and feeble. Three good reasons for discernment Amy Grant,Sandi Patti and Michael W Smith. Not everything is as it appears as it is on the surface. It comes down to discernment.


Guess what? I don't like those you mentioned either. when I said 40%, I was being very nice about it.

When speaking about christian music as a whole, it's way more than 40% that's bad. More like 75-85% would be a good guess.

I'm not trying to portray myself as a "hater", I've investigated some of this personally. I started years ago checking out my favorite artists & was shocked at what I discovered. All 3 you mentioned here I've known for years are rotten fruit. 2 of these I know are/have been used by the Illuminati, just like rap stars are now. Sandi Patti had adulterous relationships during her Dove years, yet her awards were never taken when discovered. You see, I'm not just tossing out hater statements. Christian music is slowly going apostate like the rest of the church. No part of christianity is exempt. It's across the board.
 
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gocardinals25

Guest
I would have to agree with him on quite a few things, Christians have went from mountain to hill, however the part about tattoos and haircuts I just don't know about lol, maybe Christian rap and rock are your thing but scripture & repentance should always be our #1 priority, the Lord our only idol, and the love and understanding of the holy spirit in our hearts
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,931
13,915
113

Let me say in no uncertain terms, Length of hair is not an issue with me. It's when they get on stage with nappy, dirty, greasy, unkept hair. I've seen too many videos where band members get on stage & they looked like they hadn't had a bath or washed their hair in 2 weeks!
i suppose we should consider judging the worth of a song by the band members use of shampoo rather than the tone or use of their guitars "a step in the right direction"

i agree completely that Christian musicians, just like the church itself, are in many cases apostate, and that not all labeled "Christian music" agrees with the gospel we've received -- similarly, just because a building has a steeple on it, doesn't mean the Word of God is preached within.

you specifically mentioned the sin in Sandi Patti's life --

remember that David also had an adulterous relationship with Bathsheeba, more than this he caused Uriah to be killed in order to have it -- and yet the Psalms are all still holy.

if Sandi Patti stumbles in her walk, does that mean her words of praise are null? of course not! when a muslim says "God is great" this does not mean god is not great because the muslim is deceived.

Hank Williams was a drunk & a womanizer, but he wrote "I saw the light" -- and many other gospel songs that aren't in question as to their agreement with scripture. the same goes for Johnny Cash. while an artist's life may not be a pattern to walk after, the quality of their art is not judged by this, or shouldn't be -- else we should tear the book of Psalms out of our bibles!

what i take exception to is declaring all rock music, rap music, electronic music, whatever kind of music -- declaring it all "of the devil" without any regard to the purpose or the lyrics of the songs themselves. this is no different than throwing all asian people out of church on sunday morning, or saying a person cannot be covered by the grace of God if he hasn't washed his hands and shined his shoes.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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I wouldn't expect a band that owns $30,000 worth of stage equipment & rides in a $250,000 Silver Eagle bus to come onstage dressed like an unkept bum, either.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,931
13,915
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^ the Jews weren't expecting the Messiah to be a homeless ex-carpenter from the backwater town of Nazereth, with no designs on a corporeal overthrowing of the Roman empire either. I doubt Christ had much opportunity to wash His hair every day when He was on earth, ("the son of man hath no place to lay his head") and yet, here we are.
 
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gocardinals25

Guest
As far as hygiene and the word you are probably better off homeless and a wreck than rich and content you would think, doesn't the bible say to be like Jesus Christ, it also says it is easier for a camel to walk through the head of a needle than for the rich to get into the kingdom of God and wealth and beauty go hand in hand
 
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FREAK4JESUS

Guest
WOW! Jesus is appearing to millions of people around the world.

Are we still fighting over this tiny issue? Ahh come on somebody, we all need to wake up...

[video=youtube;JwVtQ7jE_aM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwVtQ7jE_aM&feature=share[/video]
 
L

LT

Guest
can someone with discernment please deal with this issue. I do not want to deny all of the stories, ....but Matthew 24:26 comes to mind whenever these type of stories come up.

"So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it."

If anyone has insight, please either refute or confirm this.
 
C

Careen

Guest
IT'S TOTALLY TRUE ! WE MUST CHOOSE THE SONGS CAREFULLY ''especially Rock n Roll''
 
S

ServantStrike

Guest
can someone with discernment please deal with this issue. I do not want to deny all of the stories, ....but Matthew 24:26 comes to mind whenever these type of stories come up.

"So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it."

If anyone has insight, please either refute or confirm this.
The video of the self proclaimed prophet?

I posted about it on one of the several other threads where this same exact video was posted. Here's a link to that thread. It's the one that has the most critical correction there.

I did find a bit of dishonest reporting on this prophet's ministry website. Have tried but cant find anything outright Antichrist about him, which is frustrating because I'm getting a really bad vibe.

God has called David E. Taylor to raise Him up an Army of 10,000 that will shake this nation and the nations of the world!! You were born for this time.. Are you ready to walk in Dominion, Power, and Authority that comes from Jehovah? This is the Power that Changes and Transforms EVERYTHING!!! The gates of hell will not prevail!! We are the Army that Joel 2 speaks about! Enlist Today!! We are going to reach out, and restore and see Heaven's population increase!! God is securing the greatest harvest of souls, and because of His Love, He wants to use yo

Yikes!


Welcome kingdom warriors, these are exciting times. You're about to hear imperial revelation, supreme wisdom, and strategic guidance for the biggest battle the world has ever seen. Now open your ears hearts and minds for divine instruction and leadership from your general David E Taylor.

That's... that's a hefty claim to make.


Looking at his website, he's already done some somewhat dishonest prophesying. He claims that he prophesied a drug bust in Florida, after which a drug bust ensued where 20 drug lords were captured, and I quote
Just a few days later, news broke out in Orlando of a major drug bust, resulting in the arrests of 20 drug lords! The biggest drug bust of its kind in this region!

Which, isn't true. His site claims he prophesied this on July 21, 2013. I don't know why he didn't pick the 50 person arrest sting that happened in Orlando during July of this year as his proof either.

But, there was a a larger bust in Florida. During April of 2008 there was a drug bust with 68 arrests and 50kg of cocaine seized along with 5kg of crack. Or This bust for 400 pounds of cocaine (180 kilograms).



I don't know that this guy meets the standard of of a Biblical prophet.
 
I

in2it

Guest
I think there is nothing wrong to listening to Christian rock, rap, etc......
But not during worship services.
There is absolutely no reverence in such a thing. We should each be singing individually to God, for Gods' glory. When a person plays an instrument they are leading others by the tone, tempo, etc...
God is the creator of order, not chaos.
I find no mention of instrumental music being used in worship in the New Testament.
I have Christian friends that say whatever means(live concert)we can use to get them in the doors is good. So, initial reason for going to Church is to be entertained? Not so good. What happens to the next generation that needs something to get them in the door? Live rock concerts will be the norm and won't appeal to them. What kind of self serving entertainment will be the reason to get them in the door next?
What happens when the entertainment doesn't do it for them anymore?
Well, if they were going to Church because they recognized sin in their lives and wanted a different life then they would have every reason to go back.

The further we stray from what worship is described as in the NT, the more the original worship will be lost. It is these subtle changes over time that allows Satan to get a foothold.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,931
13,915
113
what about this?

[video=youtube_share;HPoTk-52b44]http://youtu.be/HPoTk-52b44[/video]

"Ego Sum Via, Veritas et Vita."