Unfulfilled Promises?

[zone]

what unfulfilled promise(s) is God fulfilling today in the State of Israel in the Middle East?

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please document every claim of any unfulfilled promises with scripture.

please make a special note if you are quoting passages which refer to the eternal state < that PROMISE is NOT the focus of this thread.

this thread is for documentation of any unfulfilled promises (re: ancient Israel/or the modern Israeli/Jewish State) before the eternal state.

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[eternally-gratefull]

what unfulfilled promise(s) is God fulfilling today in the State of Israel in the Middle East?

................

please document every claim of any unfulfilled promises with scripture.

please make a special note if you are quoting passages which refer to the eternal state < that PROMISE is NOT the focus of this thread.

this thread is for documentation of any unfulfilled promises (re: ancient Israel/or the modern Israeli/Jewish State) before the eternal state.

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don't know of any unfilfilled promises.

but do know of one still in effect (I give you and YOUR descendants after you this land as an ETERNAL possession)

as for modern day israel. They are still in sin, this whoever is in the land is not part of the promise. according to lev 26. They would have to repent to be restored ot the land which is rightfully theirs. this has not happened yet.

 

[zone]

don't know of any unfilfilled promises.

but do know of one still in effect (I give you and YOUR descendants after you this land as an ETERNAL possession)

as for modern day israel. They are still in sin, this whoever is in the land is not part of the promise. according to lev 26. They would have to repent to be restored ot the land which is rightfully theirs. this has not happened yet.

hi EG.

thanks for narrowing that down early. a Promise still in effect (rather than as yet unfulfilled; or is being fulfilled):

"one still in effect (I give you and YOUR descendants after you this land as an ETERNAL possession)"

you see an eternal Land promise still effect, meaning on this earth; precisely this earthly Jerusalem and surrounding region.

but not technically fulfilled per: their rightful possession of it, since they are unrepentant (still in sin).

t.y.

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where is the dividing line between this earthly Jerusalem and New Jerusalem (eternity)?

i.e:

"one still in effect (I give you and YOUR descendants after you this land as an ETERNAL possession)"

do you believe that this earth - current earthly Jerusalem we can say for shorthand - is established eternally?

just trying to find out when the earthly Jerusalem/Land promise ceases to be eternal and is superceded by New Jerusalem (the eternal promise/state). or does it?

can you show where earthly Jerusalem IS the eternal promise/state?

[i do not want to misrepresent what you believe....trying to keep the focus to Unfulfilled Promises....so what is it that happens in scripture that brings about the Fulfillment of the Land promise - with israel possessing it eternally, having repented and become believers (?) - before Jesus Returns/BEFORE THE ETERNAL STATE?]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hi EG.

thanks for narrowing that down early. a Promise still in effect (rather than as yet unfulfilled; or is being fulfilled):

"one still in effect (I give you and YOUR descendants after you this land as an ETERNAL possession)"

you see an eternal Land promise still effect, meaning on this earth; precisely this earthly Jerusalem and surrounding region.

but not technically fulfilled per: their rightful possession of it, since they are unrepentant (still in sin).

t.y.

......

where is the dividing line between this earthly Jerusalem and New Jerusalem (eternity)?

i.e:

"one still in effect (I give you and YOUR descendants after you this land as an ETERNAL possession)"

do you believe that this earth - current earthly Jerusalem we can say for shorthand - is established eternally?

just trying to find out when the earthly Jerusalem/Land promise ceases to be eternal and is superceded by New Jerusalem (the eternal promise/state). or does it?

can you show where earthly Jerusalem IS the eternal promise/state?

[i do not want to misrepresent what you believe....trying to keep the focus to Unfulfilled Promises....so what is it that happens in scripture that brings about the Fulfillment of the Land promise - with israel possessing it eternally, having repented and become believers (?) - before Jesus Returns/BEFORE THE ETERNAL STATE?]

I will try to give you an example.

I am God. I give you England as an eternal possession. To you and all your descendants after you, but only through one of your sons.

I set no conditions on it. I just say it is yours. But you will not possess it for 400 years because the people there now still believe and trust in me. I show it to you. And over time, I reconfirm the covenant between myself and you with your son of promise, and his son.

400 years later, the inhabitants of the land have rejected me. And there is nothing anyone can do to make them see who I am and their sin (their sin is complete) I tell your descendants. I am now ready to give you possession of the land, which has already been yours for 400 years. Before I let you in. I give you these laws. I want to be your god.

I tell you if you do these. You will have rain (Never starve) You will have peace (never have to worry about any enemy, for I will take care of them for you) Your children and your lives will be great.

I then tell you. The land is yours. If you do these, I will let you in. If you do not. I will punish you (7 x greater for each successful punishment)

The final punishment is an enemy will come into your land. Take you captive, destroy your high places. And make you march out of your land and become slaves in their land.

However, If you repent, Admit your sin, and the sin of your fathers. I WILL REMEMBER THE COVENANT I MADE WITH ZONE. AND HER TWO SONS, And bring you back into the land which BELONGS TO ZONE AND HER TWO SONS< AND THEIR DESCENDANTS. and I will again be your God.

go forward 2000 years.. Twice you have disobeyed me, Once I took you away, However, I allowed you back in even though you were still in sin, Because I needed you there for something I would do (send my son to die for you) but after this, after you crucified him, I had another enemy do exactly what I promised I would do if you went against me, and followed other Gods.

3000 years after this, Your descendants finally open their eyes. They see the truth, the sin of their fathers, There own sin, And they repent to Me. When this happens. I remember my promise I made to Zone and her two sons. And I bring them back into their land, And send the enemy who has possessed it for so long away, I once again become your God.

After this, You continue to follow me up until the time I am finished with my plan for this earth and its people. I Raise everyone up to me. I destroy that earth, and the land. And I make a new one. Better than the one I had before. The land is no longer there, thus there is no land for you to live in and call yours. But in the new earth, I make a new land, And I give that land to you..

 

[Abiding]

 

[zone]

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[zone]

I will try to give you an example.

I am God. I give you England as an eternal possession. To you and all your descendants after you, but only through one of your sons.

Genesis 12:7
Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built there an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.

Acts 7:5
And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

...

I set no conditions on it. I just say it is yours.

only if i am CHRIST. the SEED.
which i am not.

Hebrews 11
8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

But you will not possess it for 400 years because the people there now still believe and trust in me. I show it to you. And over time, I reconfirm the covenant between myself and you with your son of promise, and his son.

which Covenant?
the Covenant with Abraham that he would be the father of many nations...and the world would be blessed through HIS SEED - CHRIST?
who is the Heir of all things, and those IN CHRIST inherit with Him?

or the Mosaic Covenant which they never kept (not able...any more than you are).

God fulfilled the Land promises to the earthly kings israel demanded (because they would not have God to be their King): both David AND Solomon - the LAST king - though from the DEAD branch.....possessed all the Land as well.

UNTIL - the BRANCH came (out of Jesse; and David...through Nathan) - JESUS. who is King NOW and forever.

do you see ANY of the promises re: soil in the promised land NOT FULFILLED HERE?
did everyone get exactly what they were promised (re: the TYPE of ETERNITY - Canaan)?:

Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The LORD commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the LORD the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.

4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.

5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.

6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.

7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.

8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the LORD had commanded through Moses.

9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.

13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.

27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.

41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.

43Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.

it says it right here, EG:

Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.


what do we do about that chapter - nay - the whole BOOK?
Joshua yet (Yeshua)

cont.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

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lol..

the question we have to ask is this.

1. Does the land in question still exist. Yes.
2. If so. Does the unconditional promise God made to abraham, Issac and jacob continue as long as the land still exists? The answer has to be yes. (eternal means forever)
3. Thus, the promise, Still stands.

the only conditions made where if the people who own the land possess it or not. Not whether or not the promise ceases to exist.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Genesis 12:7
Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built there an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.

Acts 7:5
And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

Explained in my example. His people would not posses it for 400 years. Everyone knows this.

Galatians 3:16

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

So Christ was promised land??? Ok This would seem unsensical.

Number one does not fit with what the OT says.

Gen 13: [SUP]14 [/SUP]The Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him, “Now lift up your eyes and look from the place where you are, northward and southward and eastward and westward; [SUP]15 [/SUP]for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your [SUP][l][/SUP]descendants forever. [SUP]16 [/SUP]I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth, so that if anyone can number the dust of the earth, then your [SUP][n][/SUP]descendants can also be numbered. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Arise, walk about the land through its length and breadth; for I will give it to you.”

Notice plural. Not singular

Gen 15:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, [SUP][p][/SUP]terror and great darkness fell upon him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]God said to Abram, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, [SUP][r][/SUP]where they will be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But I will also judge the nation whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with [SUP][s][/SUP]many possessions. [SUP]15 [/SUP]As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then in the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete.”


“To your descendants I have given this land,
From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:

Notice. in all of these. the people who are given the land are plural. Not descendants..

continuing

[SUP]8 [/SUP]I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Again. Plural. Not singular. Nope. don;t fit the passage you quoted.

what seed is Paul speaking of in galations?

There is only 1 singular noun used in the whole of the covenant.

In you (your seed) shall ALL THE NATIONS of the earth be blessed.

This is what Paul is speaking about. In Abraham, In his seed. Shall come a redeemer, and through that seed, all the promises between God and the nations of the world will be fulfilled.

 

[zone]

400 years later, the inhabitants of the land have rejected me. And there is nothing anyone can do to make them see who I am and their sin (their sin is complete) I tell your descendants. I am now ready to give you possession of the land, which has already been yours for 400 years. Before I let you in. I give you these laws. I want to be your god.

I tell you if you do these. You will have rain (Never starve) You will have peace (never have to worry about any enemy, for I will take care of them for you) Your children and your lives will be great.

I then tell you. The land is yours. If you do these, I will let you in. If you do not. I will punish you (7 x greater for each successful punishment)

The final punishment is an enemy will come into your land. Take you captive, destroy your high places. And make you march out of your land and become slaves in their land.

right.
the final punishment was the total destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD - that's when the Old Covenant curses rained down

God must be Just and He must punish according to the curses in the Law -

Deuteronomy 27:26
"Cursed is anyone who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"

Paul confirms again AFTER JESUS has come - warning that that Covenant can NOT save, it can only condemn:

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

which Covenant does paul remind us of that God is HONORING? without conditions?

Galatians 3:9
8The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

However, If you repent, Admit your sin, and the sin of your fathers. I WILL REMEMBER THE COVENANT I MADE WITH ZONE. AND HER TWO SONS, And bring you back into the land which BELONGS TO ZONE AND HER TWO SONS< AND THEIR DESCENDANTS. and I will again be your God.

right.

Daniel 9
O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. 8O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee. 9To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; 10Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. 11Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. 12And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. 13As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. 14Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.

15And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. 16O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. 17Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. 18O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. 19O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

Gabriel's Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks
20And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.[/QUOTE]


John 4
19The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” 21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. 24God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”

go forward 2000 years.. Twice you have disobeyed me, Once I took you away, However, I allowed you back in even though you were still in sin, Because I needed you there for something I would do (send my son to die for you) but after this, after you crucified him, I had another enemy do exactly what I promised I would do if you went against me, and followed other Gods.

okay....we just saw that.
and we saw that Christ made the OLD COVENANT obsolete.
so all that REMAINS is the NEW COVENANT and the promise of a city who builder and maker is GOD.

again Paul tells us - and surely the other Apostles were teaching the very same Gospel and the very same eschatology to the JEWS:

Galatians 4:25
24This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

yup - same Gospel and eschatology from Peter:

2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

......

3000 years after this, Your descendants finally open their eyes. They see the truth, the sin of their fathers, There own sin, And they repent to Me. When this happens. I remember my promise I made to Zone and her two sons. And I bring them back into their land, And send the enemy who has possessed it for so long away, I once again become your God.

hold UP - what happend to make all the Israelis open their eyes before Jesus comes?
and what about the ones who died just before the great eye-opening? weren't they part of 'ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED'?

okay, this is the part where hopefully you have scripture to back up the eternal Land claim (that can't be an eternal soil claim) because:

Galatians 4:25
24This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.



yoru narrative did a big GAP thing. with no back up.
there's no more Promise for anyone outside the Gospel promise EG - Jesus made all equal at the Cross.
everyone gets saved the same way - and no one has any outstanding promise that isn't the ETERNAL STATE.

unless you can show me unfulfilled stuff....i showed you fulfilled.

After this, You continue to follow me up until the time I am finished with my plan for this earth and its people. I Raise everyone up to me. I destroy that earth, and the land. And I make a new one. Better than the one I had before. The land is no longer there, thus there is no land for you to live in and call yours. But in the new earth, I make a new land, And I give that land to you..

that new land - eternity is for the jews (israel)?
what about the christian? where are they?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So Christ was promised land??? Ok This would seem unsensical.

Number one does not fit with what the OT says.

[content of Genesis 13:16]

Notice plural. Not singular

That's the whole point of Galatians 3:16. Paul is informing us that the promise wasn't made to seeds (plural), but to seed (singular), who is Christ. The translation of Genesis 13:16 that you're working from is bogus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

only if i am CHRIST. the SEED.
which i am not.

Hebrews 11
8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

Been through this before.

You God gave you the land (in my example) yet he told you you would not posses it. Neither would your sons.

You were looking forward to the eternal city anyway, So you were never worried that you did not posses the land given you.

This does NOT mean the covenant does not still stand. God did not promise his descendants eternity (this is what they thought though, or most of them) he promised them a piece of real estate here on earth. And then he gave then (in the law of moses) things they must do to be able to live in the land which was theirs.

Unless your saying it was never for the physical land of canaan, But the eternal land of heavenly cities.. In which case. You have a problem. because the law and Lev 26 would have to be kept to be able to get to this heavenly city..

which Covenant?
the Covenant with Abraham that he would be the father of many nations...and the world would be blessed through HIS SEED - CHRIST?

that was ONE aspect of the covenant, But yes, it too was non conditional.

But we are not talking about that aspect of Gods covenant with abraham now are we?

who is the Heir of all things, and those IN CHRIST inherit with Him?

Has nothing to do with land.. Thus does not pertain to our conversation.

or the Mosaic Covenant which they never kept (not able...any more than you are).

Lev 26 Why do you continue to ignore lev 26? Is lev 26 how we posses heaven? or is it how the ones who were given the land can live in the peace God promised them THE DAY THEY MOVED IN??

God fulfilled the Land promises to the earthly kings israel demanded (because they would not have God to be their King): both David AND Solomon - the LAST king - though from the DEAD branch.....possessed all the Land as well.

Nope. Eternal means eternal. Not one time, it means forever.

UNTIL - the BRANCH came (out of Jesse; and David...through Nathan) - JESUS. who is King NOW and forever.

do you see ANY of the promises re: soil in the promised land NOT FULFILLED HERE?
did everyone get exactly what they were promised (re: the TYPE of ETERNITY - Canaan)?:

Nope they did not. The land still exists does it not? are they there today? NO. Why? Lev 26.

Joshua 21

Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The LORD commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the LORD the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.

4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.

5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.

6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.

7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.

8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the LORD had commanded through Moses.

9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.

13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.

27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.

41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.

43Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.

it says it right here, EG:

Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.

It came to pass that they POSSESSED IT. God said they would.

Now. Did they posses it forever? That was NEVER the promise. The promise was it would be theres! FOREVER Not once did he promise they would possess it forever. ONLY that it would be THEIRS forever.

what do we do about that chapter - nay - the whole BOOK?
Joshua yet (Yeshua)

cont.....

What do you do with Lev 26? Does it still stand, or is it no longer valid?

[SUP]40 [/SUP]‘If they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their forefathers, in their unfaithfulness which they committed against Me, and also in their acting with hostility against Me— [SUP]41 [/SUP]I also was acting with hostility against them, to bring them into the land of their enemies—or if their uncircumcised heart becomes humbled so that they then make amends for their iniquity, [SUP]42 [/SUP]then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and I will remember also My covenant with Isaac, and My covenant with Abraham as well, and I will remember the land.

what covenant? the eternal city you are talking about?? This is the covenant WE are discussing zone. So lets stick to this covenant, and not the one about th eblessing to ALL nations. and the heavenly city opened up to ALL nations because of the seed of Abraham (Christ)

[SUP]43 [/SUP]For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, [SUP][o][/SUP]because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them,

Here is the promise that the nation of Israel will NEVER be destroyed. Is this the nation who is in Israel today? I have no clue. Does the nation still exist? Has God not ALWAYS kept a remnant so they would never be utterly wiped off the earth?? YES.. Even Paul acknowledges this in romans 11!

breaking My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. [SUP]45 [/SUP]But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the Lord.’”

Again, What covenant? the one your tlaking about?? or the one God made with the DESCENDANTS of ABRAHAM concerning the PHYSICAL LAND OF CANAAN??


I do not for the life of me understand why some people would reject the fact that if this sinnfull nation of Israel, WHo has spent the last 3000 years worshipping false Gods and mocking the laws of God and his salvation. If they repent. Would not want God to remember his promise he made with their fathers.

That should be a glorious thing for everyone on earth;. Why? It proves God is a God of love, He keeps his promises FOREVER..

 

[zone]

So Christ was promised land??? Ok This would seem unsensical.

Christ is the Heir of everything EG.

He was the SEED... Paul said so. and so did God.
He proclaimed The GOSPEL beforehand to Abraham - that the gentiles would be fellow-heirs.


so why do we suddenly have a Jewish State?
no...this is a carnal deception. The Pharisees are trying to take by force what was never theirs.
it was taken from them 2000 years ago, EG....not taken from the remnant.
they inherited - by FAITH.

i know many are offended by these words from Jesus - but what do we do with them?

Mark 12
The Parable of the Tenants
1And he began to speak to them in parables. “A man planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a pit for the winepress and built a tower, and leased it to tenants and went into another country. 2When the season came, he sent a servanta to the tenants to get from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3And they took him and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4Again he sent to them another servant, and they struck him on the head and treated him shamefully. 5And he sent another, and him they killed. And so with many others: some they beat, and some they killed. 6He had still one other, a beloved son. Finally he sent him to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 7But those tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 8And they took him and killed him and threw him out of the vineyard. 9What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the tenants and give the vineyard to others. 10Have you not read this Scripture:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;b
11 this was the Lord’s doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?”

12And they were seeking to arrest him but feared the people, for they perceived that he had told the parable against them. So they left him and went away.

....

What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the tenants and give the vineyard to others.

what others?
what vineyard?

John 15:1
1"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's the whole point of Galatians 3:16. Paul is informing us that the promise wasn't made to seeds (plural), but to seed (singular), who is Christ. The translation of Genesis 13:16 that you're working from is bogus.

lol.. for bogus translations.

Bogus?

I will make your descendants/seed as numerous as the dust of the earth??

Seed means descendants.. It is not bogus. And gen 13 is NOT what Paul is talking about in galations.

 

[zone]

Now. Did they posses it forever? That was NEVER the promise. The promise was it would be theres! FOREVER Not once did he promise they would possess it forever. ONLY that it would be THEIRS forever.

uh....okay

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ is the Heir of everything EG.

He was the SEED... Paul said so. and so did God.
He proclaimed The GOSPEL beforehand to Abraham - that the gentiles would be fellow-heirs.


so why do we suddenly have a Jewish State?
no...this is a carnal deception. The Pharisees are trying to take by force what was never theirs.
it was taken from them 2000 years ago, EG....not taken from the remnant.
they inherited - by FAITH.

i know many are offended by these words from Jesus - but what do we do with them?

Mark 12
The Parable of the Tenants
1And he began to speak to them in parables. “A man planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a pit for the winepress and built a tower, and leased it to tenants and went into another country. 2When the season came, he sent a servanta to the tenants to get from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3And they took him and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4Again he sent to them another servant, and they struck him on the head and treated him shamefully. 5And he sent another, and him they killed. And so with many others: some they beat, and some they killed. 6He had still one other, a beloved son. Finally he sent him to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 7But those tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 8And they took him and killed him and threw him out of the vineyard. 9What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the tenants and give the vineyard to others. 10Have you not read this Scripture:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;b
11 this was the Lord’s doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?”

12And they were seeking to arrest him but feared the people, for they perceived that he had told the parable against them. So they left him and went away.

....

What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the tenants and give the vineyard to others.

what others?
what vineyard?

John 15:1
1"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

well as we said. We will never agree.

jesus was not promised land. The nation of Israel Was.

Lev 26 is still in effect. To claim it is not is to claim God is a liar, and will not keep his promise. I can see it no other way!

You asked. I answered. No need to go further, all it would do is cause anger yet once again, I do not want to get angry with you. I love ya sis!

 

[zone]

lol.. for bogus translations.

Bogus?

I will make your descendants/seed as numerous as the dust of the earth??

Seed means descendants.. It is not bogus. And gen 13 is NOT what Paul is talking about in galations.

those descendants are all the children of FAITH.

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Galatians 6:16
Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule--to the Israel of God.

Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh

 

[eternally-gratefull]

those descendants are all the children of FAITH.

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Galatians 6:16
Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule--to the Israel of God.

Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh

that is heaven, not some peace of land on earth. if it is the land on earth, the church should possess it now..

sorry.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Seed means descendants.. It is not bogus. And gen 13 is NOT what Paul is talking about in galations.

Well I hate to have to break it to you, but Genesis 13:15 is exactly what Paul was referring to (as well as two other verses, which leaves no doubt).

The singular spermati (σπερματι).

The promises were declared to Abraham and to his seed. He is not saying, "and to seeds (σπερμασιν)" as upon many, but as upon one, "and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου)", which is anointed. Galations 3:16​

Paul was referring to several verses in the LXX version of Genesis. Notice who GOD promised the land to.

GOD said to Abram after Lot parted from him, "Look up with your eyes and behold from the place which you are now to the north, south, east, and west, because all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου) unto the age." Genesis 13:15

And I am giving to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου) after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan to an eternal possession. And I am becoming their GOD. Genesis 17:8

Master GOD of heaven and the GOD of the land, who took me out of my father’s house and out of the land of which I was born, who spoke to me, and swore by an oath to me saying, "I will give this land to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου)"; he will send his messenger in front of you, and you will take a wife to my son from there. Genesis 24:7​

 

[zone]

that is heaven, not some peace of land on earth. if it is the land on earth, the church should possess it now..

sorry.

but the message to the HEBREWS was do NOT look for an enduring city here (earthly Jerusalem).
particularly since it and the OT system was about to suffer the curses.

God is not going to perform a REDUX on the old Covenant thing EG.
it's over.