What Laws are still valid to christians

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Hoffco

Guest
Gal.4:9-11 "...how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I m afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain." AND Eph.2:14-15 "For He Himself is our peace, who has make both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances, do as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace," Paul wants us to know that Jesus "abolished" the "special laws" for the Jews that made them separate from the Gentiles. Circumcision, dietary laws ,etc., are gone for ever. This is in keeping with the word Jesus used to "fulfill"the law. Jesus "fulfilled" the special laws for the Jews and abolished them, but Jesus kept in force the moral laws. The word "fulfill" means two things: 1. to finish their purpose and do away with. 2. and to fill to the fullest meaning and keep in tact. We are not to keep the feast days of the O.T. . they are "fulfilled" and done away with. Love to all, Hoffco
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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not trying to debate just saying, i dont see where Yahshua ever said certian Laws would be abolished,

Mattithyah 5:18 "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 24:35, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words will not pass away."

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity the Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

The oppisition to yahweh;s instructions was abolished, not the Law it's self.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
This is why, when Israel rebuilds their temple,at the beginning of the 70th wk. of Daniel, and begins the sacrifices again, they will receive the wrath of God upon themselves. It is unlawful for them to do them again. It will bring great shame upon Jesus their passover. God will show mercy upon 144,000 of them and they will chose Jesus when they see Him in the sky, and they will not bow to the antichrist,and they will not be hurt by God's wrath;BUT, they will be killed by the antichrist. They leave Jerusalem by death. they are resurrected in Rev.20:4 "...Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God,who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.: Love to all, Hoffco
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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This is why, when Israel rebuilds their temple,at the beginning of the 70th wk. of Daniel, and begins the sacrifices again, they will receive the wrath of God upon themselves. It is unlawful for them to do them again. It will bring great shame upon Jesus their passover. God will show mercy upon 144,000 of them and they will chose Jesus when they see Him in the sky, and they will not bow to the antichrist,and they will not be hurt by God's wrath;BUT, they will be killed by the antichrist. They leave Jerusalem by death. they are resurrected in Rev.20:4 "...Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God,who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.: Love to all, Hoffco
Certianly none should ever do a sacrifice ever again, the entire reason for that ever being a law in the first place was for Yahshua, i certianly didnt mean to Sacrifice. Im sure there will be people who will if given the chance tho...
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
Sorry, you are not reading correctly the text you printed, and not keeping it in context. "the enmity the law of commandments in ordinances , so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, making peace", The enmity was the Jewish ordinances which the Gentiles hated, with the ordinances gone, the Jews and Gentiles could be friends. This is why Paul continually fought with the Jews,judizers, who wanted to impose their laws on the Gentiles, Paul would not allow the ordinances to be made "law" for Christians. This is why Paul said "circumcision or non circumcision" is nothing , what is important is a new birth, heart circumcision, a new creation. remember Jesus was under the "LAW",He had to keep all the Old T. laws; but He told the disciples that the Holy spirit would lead them into truth of Himself, which He, Jesus, could not tell them while He was on earth. And remind them of the things He had taught them. Those promises are not for us today. And the book of Hebrews tells of the change of the law, because the priesthood was changed, but Jesus never told of that. In reality Jesus did tell them, but thru the Holy Spirit. Love to all Hoffco
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Mattithyah 7:26, "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, but does not do them, is like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Dont say its only 1, 2 or 9, or the words of Yahshua will find you to be a liar.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Mattithyah 7:24, "Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, is like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:
#0458 ???µ?a anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mattithyah 7:26, "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, but does not do them, is like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand."
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Agreed. Why is there such animosity toward people that revere the Mosaic Law? If one takes the entire Bible as truth, even for today, they somehow want to be under the law, or a person that seeks justification by obeying the law.

If Jesus didn’t destroy it, and Paul said that it was holy, good, and Spiritual, why wouldn’t people want to understand what Paul understood, and strive to see the spiritual truth in the law for today? How can a person label another person that is striving to understand the concepts of the entire Bible as relevant as believing in a false doctrine? Is it a deep-seated guilt coming from the accusers? I tend to think so.
The animosity is towards the teachings of people who pretend to be followers of Christ, but place the law of Moses on equal footing with the commandments of Christ, thus invalidating the words of Christ. For example, Moses commanded physical circumcision in the flesh; Christ prohibits it as a means of obedience to him. In this particular case, one cannot follow both. One has to make a decision to follow Christ, and cannot be a double-minded fence-sitter halting between two opinions.

"How long halt ye between two opinions? If the Lord be God, follow him; if Baal, then follow him." 1 Kings 18:21.

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 1:8​

How long halt ye between two opinions just-me and hizikyah? In this particular case, who do you obey? Moses, or Christ? If you don't simply and directly answer this question, I will assume that it is due to a deep-seated guilt resulting from spiritual infidelity.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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The animosity is towards the teachings of people who pretend to be followers of Christ, but place the law of Moses on equal footing with the commandments of Christ, thus invalidating the words of Christ. For example, Moses commanded physical circumcision in the flesh; Christ prohibits it as a means of obedience to him. In this particular case, one cannot follow both. One has to make a decision to follow Christ, and cannot be a double-minded fence-sitter halting between two opinions.

"How long halt ye between two opinions? If the Lord be God, follow him; if Baal, then follow him." 1 Kings 18:21.

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 1:8​


How long halt ye between two opinions just-me and hizikyah? In this particular case, who do you obey? Moses, or Christ? If you don't simply and directly answer this question, I will assume that it is due to a deep-seated guilt resulting from spiritual infidelity.
Why dont you please do this for me, jsut give me you intrepretation of just the verses I post in this post? Maybe it can alleviate some of our disagreements or we can agree to disagree?

I have to say you are acting like a joker with this one, we disagree much, but over and over you run away and then log on later and take pot shots like this one. Dont worry you dont have to deny it I dont need your approval to know what you do concerning our debates. Over and over you say "justified by LAWWWWW!!!!!!!!" and I have never said this, and even spoke against it when you use this false witness. Bottom line Yahshua says to follow Yahweh's Law, i listen to Yahshua because His word is as sond as Yahweh's. Also why do you call it Moses' law, its Yahweh's Law, is it easier to ignore if you say it is from Mosheh?

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

This next verses always bothered me, you knowit nnever made sense to me why Yahshua would say to follow the instructions of the Pharisses???? Im guessing it never bothered you because you dont seem to care too much what Yahshua says.

Every translation reads as such, as all Greek texts read this way:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

However Yahweh has left us truth!

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

THIS IS THE BURDEN!

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos

nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:

#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:—iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #458.
α᾿νομι´α anomia; from 459; lawlessness:— lawless deed, lawless deeds, lawlessness


FROM:

#0459 ἄνομος anomos {an'-om-os} from G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; TDNT - 4:1086,646; adj

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) destitute of (the Mosaic) law
1a) of the Gentiles
2) departing from the law, a violator of the law, lawless, wicked

Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; lawless, that is, (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication a Gentile), or (positively) wicked:— without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.

Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #459.
α῎νομος anomos; from 1 (as a neg. pref.) and 3551; lawless, without law:— godless men, lawless, lawless one, transgressors, without the law, without law, without law.

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

I see some people hate those who keep Yahweh's Law....
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Why dont you please do this for me, jsut give me you intrepretation of just the verses I post in this post? Maybe it can alleviate some of our disagreements or we can agree to disagree?
Here you go again. Avoiding my question with the run around. Why should I answer your question when you won't even answer mine?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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Here you go again. Avoiding my question with the run around. Why should I answer your question when you won't even answer mine?
I did:

Why dont you please do this for me, jsut give me you intrepretation of just the verses I post in this post? Maybe it can alleviate some of our disagreements or we can agree to disagree?

I have to say you are acting like a joker with this one, we disagree much, but over and over you run away and then log on later and take pot shots like this one. Dont worry you dont have to deny it I dont need your approval to know what you do concerning our debates. Over and over you say "justified by LAWWWWW!!!!!!!!" and I have never said this, and even spoke against it when you use this false witness. Bottom line Yahshua says to follow Yahweh's Law, i listen to Yahshua because His word is as sond as Yahweh's. Also why do you call it Moses' law, its Yahweh's Law, is it easier to ignore if you say it is from Mosheh?<snip>
__________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ
  11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.Ephesians 2
old tooooooooooooooooooooooooooo new
20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief
with Christ Jesus himself as the chief .
.
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[7] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.Ephesians 2
again
4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been save

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.


 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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Why dont you please do this for me, jsut give me you intrepretation of just the verses I post in this post? Maybe it can alleviate some of our disagreements or we can agree to disagree?
Here you go again. Avoiding my question with the run around. Why should I answer your question when you won't even answer mine?
Because he is unable to.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
This is where it all started. you said "So. Looking at all of these facts. Why do people continue to say we must earn salvation by TRYING to be good? " If we love God why not try to be good?
See! this is why we have problems discussing anything, Your always so vague and no one can figure out what you believe.

What good is it to to "try" to be good if;

1. Your not saved. All your doing is filthy rags, you going to hand this to God on the day of judgment, And say But God you HAVE to give me some credit. I did not commit adultry, I did not steal, I honored my parents to the best of MY ability. I tried my best not to covet anything, And I did all these wonderful works in your name!! What does scripture say Jesus will say to them?? Depart. For I NEVER KNEW YOU.
2. The process of "trying to do good" in itself is a major err in judgment, It is SELF motivating. Don't you know anything with the word I, or Try is promoting self and not God?
3. We have no power to do good. Even if we TRY our hardest. we will still fail and fall short.
4. Instead of "trying to do good" why don't we give it to God. Use the power he gave us to be others focused. In doins so, we WILL be good. When you try something, it takes work. When you just do what God wants you to do. It takes no work to "be good"
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I answered them all. You just didn't get the spiritual meaning. Hope you change your way the nest time we talk.
No you did not. I showed you how you did not. and you still went in circles.

I would love to have a great conversation with you. But if your going to continue to make vague statements which anyone could interpret 100 ways. And continue to beet around the bush, and say your giving "spiritual" answers. The same thing will happen.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't feel it necessary to counter everything. I thought this time I'd hang in there with you and let others see how you really are. Maybe other people get of on arguing about God's word but I really don't. I'm in conflict with your attitude as a proclaiming Christian. Keep in mind, Jesus had no conflict whit the Pharisees that I have ever read in the Bible, until they started a conflict with Him. They had distorted the law to complement their own righteousness. If you think I am doing that, then I ask you, i my father the devil as there's was? Yes or no.

lol.. Thats why we can not have a discussion. A discussion involves points and counter points.. And guess what. I hung in there to show people how you really are. And you did exactly what you always do.

Again, As for what you believe, I still do not know. On one hand, it appears you are a legalist by what you say, on the other hand it appears your just a Christian who thinks we should follow law to the best of our ability, but not for salvation.

I am sure if you ask everyone, everyone would say the same, we do not KNOW what you believe.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hebrews 5:9 "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him," 1Tim. 4:16 "Take heed to your self and to the doctrine, Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you" Heb. 10:38-39 " Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, my soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." This is God's word , do not argue over it, seek to understand it! Hoffco

Notice the first part.

Having been perfected. The perfection comes first. then the obeying.. Those perfected in Christ WILL obey. They do not obey to become perfected!
like some in here want us to believe

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Agreed. Why is there such animosity toward people that revere the Mosaic Law? If one takes the entire Bible as truth, even for today, they somehow want to be under the law, or a person that seeks justification by obeying the law.

If Jesus didn’t destroy it, and Paul said that it was holy, good, and Spiritual, why wouldn’t people want to understand what Paul understood, and strive to see the spiritual truth in the law for today? How can a person label another person that is striving to understand the concepts of the entire Bible as relevant as believing in a false doctrine? Is it a deep-seated guilt coming from the accusers? I tend to think so.
Thats not even the point of discussion.

People are claiming they must obey or they will lose salvation. This is a gospel of works, via the law. and not the gospel of grace. This should be confronted. People come in here and see this teaching and may fall for it. because it "sounds good" to our flesh.. It is normal to think we must earn things, it is abnormal to think only By Gods grace would he perfect us by his sons sacrifice.

The other discussion is should we follow mosaic law as Christians, or the law of love. This should just be a discussion. and although will still get some emotions stirred in some. Should still just be a discussion.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Here is God golden chain of salvation:"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Rom.8:29-30 Now, Rom. 2:13"for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;" This is the WORD of GOD, How do you relate them, they seem to be in conflict? Hoffco
There is no conflict. People only make a conflict when they interpret it wrong

Hearers of the law follow the schoolmaster. which leads them to christ. Hopefully it causes them to accept Christ's gift. And become empowered by Gods holy spirit in new birth.

Those who have will be doers of the law (although not perfect) as God changes them from the inside out. But will not be perfect.

The predestination is based solely on the fact God KNEW would would do this, and who would not do this.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Their guilt may not be the answer, It may be that they have believed a lie ,so lone, that they are beyond conviction. It is a lie to believe "faith alone" saves. They are so shallow that they deny the parts of the Bible that are too deep for babys to under stand. Love to all Hoffco
the LIE is that we can EARN salvation by our deeds. Your putting your faiht in SELF and your ability to do what is required to be saved. And not in the power of GOD who did all the work for you.

Your thinking like a human, who desires to feel like he earned his gift (reward) and not like a person on Death row. who no matter how good he tries to be while he awaits his execution. Will still suffer the execution and death.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Please keep in mind, one is not justified by keeping the law, one is justified by God's GRACE first, by FAITH second and then by law keeping third. The faith and law keeping that counts to eternal life, is after regeneration by GOD and after Justification by GRACE. then the work of faith and holiness will follow. Rom.6:22 show this relationship between grace and law keeping that saves. "But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of god, you have your fruit to holiness and the end, everlasting life." A holy life leads to eternal life only after we are born of God, set free from sin and enslaved to obey God. Hoffco

the third part is wrong.

as paul said, are we so foolish having begun in the spirit (faith and grace) are we now fools trying to perfect it in the flesh?

The standard of God is perfection. no matter how good you follow his ocmmands, you will still fall short. so how can we, trying to obey the commands, save ourselves. when we STILL fall short?