What Laws are still valid to christians

[john832]

The law of liberty is the royal law, which is 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Having respect of persons violates the royal law. The law of Moses nowhere mentions showing respect of persons. John says if we keep the royal law, we will do well, which means that GOD is pleased. He mentions the 10 commandments, under which one has to be perfect (bondage which Peter said they nor their fathers were able to bear) merely to draw a contrast with the law of liberty under which we don't have to be perfect.

Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Lev 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Hmmm, seems to me there was one Law for Israel and the stranger among them.

As far as being perfect...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

One must understand what perfect is.

Now maybe you will show me where it says they had to be perfect, us not so much.

 

[john832]

Our relationship to it is abolished.

At least to those who are dead in Christ it is.

So, at that point, it has no power over us? No matter what we do it is not sin?

 

[john832]

Paul doesn't say in Romans 7:7 that the law of Moses shows him (present tense) what sin is, but that the law of Moses showed him (past tense) what sin was. He is referring to his pre-conversion life in which he did not have the spirit. In his post conversion life, the holy spirit reveals what sin is (even though the law is useful for edification and instruction).

No, I do not think he is referring just to pre conversion...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This is all written in the present tense, not past.

And then in verse 25 he plainly says that he serves (present) the Law of God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Lev 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Hmmm, seems to me there was one Law for Israel and the stranger among them.

As far as being perfect...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

One must understand what perfect is.

Now maybe you will show me where it says they had to be perfect, us not so much.

I knew you were going to bring up the perfect part. It's so sad that I have to explain everything. In the sense I used perfect, I meant flawless. In the sense that perfect is used in Matthew, it means complete, whole.

And also when I said that showing respect of persons is not in the law, I meant the 10 commandments.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And then in verse 25 he plainly says that he serves (present) the Law of God.

Which is the royal law, which is the law of liberty, which is the law of the spirit of life in Christ, which is love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So, at that point, it has no power over us? No matter what we do it is not sin?

Laws do not have authority over dead people. Christ has authority over everyone.

 

[john832]

Laws do not have authority over dead people. Christ has authority over everyone.

Ah, then one who commits adultery is not guilty? The Law has no authority over a Christian that slips? Or are you telling me a Christian never slips, never sins?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The concept of the circumcision has always been this.

It’s the law.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
If you want to refute the law, this isn’t going to work for you.

Nope.

That is the spiritual aspect. The part of the mosaic law is the physical aspect. You can't mix the two now. One is a part of the mosaic law. The other is the part the mosaic law teaches.. Back to the schoolmaster.

if your going to follow mosaic. You must do the physical. Or you have broken the law.

 

[Elin]

Ask that question in your prayer life considering this scripture. I am shy to answer your question because I am all but convinced that it will start another never ending conflict that I really don't what to be involved in. Hearing the truth of the law is more than condemnation by the law. I think it's a matter of thanking God for the law so that we can see our old nature that will never be gone until we die. The law is part of the mirror that James speaks of. James connects that mirror with the law of liberty.

Thanks for answering.

"Do not merely listen to the word. . .Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom. . not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does." (Jas 1:22-25)

In context here,

the word = "the law," which was often used to mean the entire word of God

"perfect law" that gives freedom = the word of God, in the gospel, not the ceremonial law which was a yoke of bondage (Gal 5:1)

I see no "spiritual" aspect of the law apart from its being a mirror which shows us the spots and blemishes on our faces that we may remedy and wash them.
Paul did not see his sin until he looked into the mirror of the law (Ro 7:9).

This is the only aspect of the law presented in Scripture, which is why I don't understand a "spiritual" aspect, which then indicates a "non-spiritual" aspect of the law.

I don't know what the difference is between the two.

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Yes, the law was spiritual because it came from God, who is spirit.

Paul's sinful flesh did not come from God, but from sin and, therefore, was not spiritual.

But where is the "spiritual" and "not spiritual" of the law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And that would be his new command to love the brethren as he loved us (Jn 13:34),
not as we love ourselves,
to love God with all our being, and to love our neighbor as ourselves (Mt 22:37-39),
for love fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10).

to add.

We love because he first loved us.

If we have not experienced his love through his grace gift of eternal life. We have no capacity to love. Thats why we can try our best to follow any law we deem as moral. But it is not out of love, But out of self.

We Must experience the love of God first. Before we can produce the love God created us to do (work)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If the Pharisees would not have started it with Jesus, I'm pretty sure that Jesus would have said this to His disciples.
Matthew 8:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

If we who advocate that the law is good are lost, then how would you win us to Christ? If that were the case with me, I'd think about this scripture.

1 Corinthians 9:20-23 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

You just lost your point.

Your in a chat room where people teach a works based Gospel. By association. do you think Jesus, or paul, or anyone would not have corrected them??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No conflict.

No one can do the law well enough to be justified, so the practical reality of it is that it does not justify, because no one can fulfill the condition of keeping "every word" (Dt 27:26).

The practical reality of it is that the law condemns and curses everyone, no exceptions, including the Jews (Gal 3:10).

AMen, this is why the law has not died. It continues to condemn us and keeps us humble.

The problem with following law. Is we risk being pridefull. And judgmental. Because we fool ourselves into thinking we are good people. When in Gods eyes, we are still (according to the law) worthy of nothing but condemnation.

We break the LEAST of the law. We are found guilty of the whole law. The penalty of sin is death. Thus, when we do something as small as think a bad thought, (a sin according to scripture) we are as guilty in Gods eyes as the one who murdered or commited adultry.

Those who follow law most likely can not see this. Which is why they puff themselves up.

 

[Elin]

Originally Posted by just-me

Why would you ask such a ridiculous question to a mortal such as myself. Whatever you believe in that respect, I have not problem with. The question should be are you really saved or not? I cannot, and neither can anyone else answer that question with any truth. It is obvious to me that this is a question to cause argument. Have you ever read from me that I believe one way or the other?
That's God's judgement not mans. I will give you this however;

Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


I was addressing a question that was for the purpose of arguing. I wanted to avoid conflict. I used this scripture to say that some people have a problem with this scripture thinking they may lose their salvation. Why bring it up? I made it clear that my judgment on this matter is not my place or for any mortal human to make, so I refused to answer the question when the answer belongs to God only.

If you are saying that whether or not salvation can be lost is not for any human to say, the NT states that God's answer is salvation is: secure and cannot be lost.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hate when the "like" button does not work

I find if you refresh, The like button comes back

 

[Elin]

I was pointing out the grandfathering of the Law of Sin by stating the origins of that Law when God equated disobedience to death.

I will be up front and honest, I do not know the "defining rules" which make up the "Mosaic Law". But, I do know that under the Law of Sin, a person was never justified (escaped death), seeing that God's glory sought its justice upon disobedience.

Or. . .God's justice sought its glory upon disobedience.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not quite. . .


Yes, in the OT law keeping was required for salvation.

But in the NT, obedience is the result of salvation.

Don't mix law with grace.


Yes. . .and that righteousness is a righteousness from God (Ro 3:21), the gift of God (Ro 5:17)
through faith by grace (Eph 2:8), and not by law keeping.

Obedience is the result of the gift of righteousness from God, not its cause.

Don't mix the right things in the wrong way.
Don't mix law with grace.

was this a typo?

 

[Elin]

It would be such a blessing if we had some kind of book that maybe gave us a guide on how to love???? that way our minds couldnt get in the way and define love by our own definition.....

Love is not defined by the mind, it is known, without definition, in the heart in which the Holy Spirit gives it.

 

[Josh321]

to add.

We love because he first loved us.

If we have not experienced his love through his grace gift of eternal life. We have no capacity to love. Thats why we can try our best to follow any law we deem as moral. But it is not out of love, But out of self.

We Must experience the love of God first. Before we can produce the love God created us to do (work)

EXACTLY THIS IS RIGHT ON POINT could not have said this any better

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do rely on Him, I also believe Him.

No. Be honest with yourself.

You rely on self, and your ability to fulfill the law. Because You MUST fear you will fall away, and come up short.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are also...

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Verse 11 makes plain that the Law of liberty is the Ten Commandments. They are the metric God uses. As you said in another place about having a breakthrough (and that is wonderful) concerning lust, there would be no lust if not for the seventh and tenth Commandments.

Yep The law 101

If kills, It condemns. Because if you become a transgressor (break even the LEAST of the law) you are guilty of transgressing the whole law

So unless your perfect. No one could ever be saved, because we would continue to be condemned by the law.