What Laws are still valid to christians

[Hizikyah]

Ok. So what you just did is prove that HeRoseFromTheDead was correct. When he said you beieve one is saved by the works of the law.

I state again:

Of course recieveing eternal life from Yahweh is conditional. Yahweh has set a criteria to enter HIS kingdom, entrance is not gained by what I choose, its gained but HIS criteria only.

It is summed up here.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

If you disagree with this you disagree with the Creator of all that is.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."On the contrary my friend, jesus himself gave the criteria.

John 3: 16. Whoever believes HAS (already been given) Eternal life.
John 6. Whoever believes in me HAS (already been given) eternal life. He also states they will never die, Be ressurected by Him, Will live forever etc etc.

So on the contrary my friend. To say one has to obey to be saved, is preaching law. And deny's the very words Jesus gave to us himself.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the
Kingdom of Yahweh."

You just misinterpreted what James said, and made him contradict paul. If this is true, The whole of scripture is false. because scripture can not contradict itself.

James did not say faith alone is dead. Did you even read what he said,. He said FAITH is dead (non existant) Can anyone be saved who does not have faith in Christ?? NO!!

Yaaqob 2:14, "What does it profit, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but does not have works? Can his faith save him?"
Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Yaaqob 2:24, "You see then that a man is also justified by works, and not by faith alone."

Yaaqob 2:22, "Do you see that the faith worked together with his works, and by works the faith makes perfect?"

Paul said the same exact thing James said, only in a different way, because paul was talking to a legalistic croud trying to add law. James spoke to a licentious crowed believing in mere belief (no changed life) Paul said we are saved by faith apart from works (eph 2: 8-9) and those saved WILL DO WORKS (eph 2: 10)

yeah, not fight the works of Yahweh and those who do and promote them/

No the seed of satan tries to add the works of the law to faith, to keep people away from true faith in Christ, and thus away from God. He got you hooked line and sinkered into this false phariseeicle faith in self and not God.

Satan and its followers work in many ways, but one way is:

Fighting against those who keep Yahweh's Laws and have the faith in Yahshua:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Again, As Paul said, Those saved WILL WORK. WILL OBEY, and WILL show signs of faith. It is not the other way around.. as you would wish us to believe.

Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

It is clear to me that many so called believers are walking in the spirit, problem is it is clearly not the Spirit of Yahweh.

Revelation 12:9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world."

Revelation 18:4, "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Come out of her(mystery babylon), My people, so that you do not partake in her sins, and so that you do not receive of her plagues."

The children of Yahweh LOVE His instructions, the children of satan hates Yahweh's instructions.

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

 

[john832]

but something has to happen to tell you that you are doing the right thing and your going down the right path, i might be wrong but i believe to truly accept him we gotta make our heart empty( clean the way for him ) what i mean by this, i'm not to sure if it's true or not but when i had confess all the wrong i did to my mom my heart felt empty and needed something else to fill it, i believe that we gotta clean our hearts first say that we were wrong in whatever we did or that thing will still have a hold on you

And I agree fully. The value of the Law is that it tells you what is wrong and what is right...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

There is certain information that humans cannot discover on their own, that is the purpose of the Bible. It is God's revelation to man of the things he cannot discover with the five senses.

 

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

Romans 7:2, "For the woman who has a living husband has been bound by the Law to her husband; but if her husband dies, she is released from the Law of her husband."

I know we, as I was told my whole life this verse meant "we are free from Yahweh! AND ALL His unfair Instructions!!!!"

However this is not all all what is meant here,
this is about being freed from the ways of the world/sin, free from sin have power over us by the blood of the Lamb, and thus being able to submit to the Spirit of Yahweh fully.

Not quite. . .that doesn't fit the text.

Two kinds of slavery (Ro 6:20-23):

Slaves to sin = free from control of righteousness

Slaves to God = righteousness, eternal life

One is the wages of death, the other is the gift of eternal life.

Died to the law = the law has no more hold on, no power to condemn the believer who has died in Christ Jesus (6:2-7).

It's not about being freed from the world/sin,
it's about being freed from the condemnation of the law through faith in Christ Jesus (Ro 8:1).

Romans 8:1, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Yahshua Messiah, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 Yahchanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked."

Revelation 22:15, "For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

if people only cared anything of what Yahshua said:

Mattithyah 24:35, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words will not pass away."

Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:

#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:—iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #458.
α᾿νομι´α anomia; from 459; lawlessness:— lawless deed, lawless deeds, lawlessness


FROM:

#0459 ἄνομος anomos {an'-om-os} from G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; TDNT - 4:1086,646; adj

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) destitute of (the Mosaic) law
1a) of the Gentiles
2) departing from the law, a violator of the law, lawless, wicked

Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; lawless, that is, (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication a Gentile), or (positively) wicked:— without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.

Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #459.
α῎νομος anomos; from 1 (as a neg. pref.) and 3551; lawless, without law:— godless men, lawless, lawless one, transgressors, without the law, without law, without law.

 

[Elin]

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

And the law written on our hearts is Christ's law of love, which fulfills (accomplishes) the law,
but with the huge difference for the people of God that there is no curse attached for failure to keep "every word."

It is not the Mosaic law without a curse attached (Dt 27:26).

It is Christ's law of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10).

 

[Josh321]

if your too busy following thou shalt not how can you let God live the life for you? how will you surrender yourlifestyle to God and let him live for you when YOUR too busy " trying " to do it yourself you will always fail...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B][/COLOR] I state again:

Of course recieveing eternal life from Yahweh is conditional. Yahweh has set a criteria to enter HIS kingdom, entrance is not gained by what I choose, its gained but HIS criteria only.

It is summed up here.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

If you disagree with this you disagree with the Creator of all that is.


Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the
Kingdom of Yahweh."

Yaaqob 2:14, "What does it profit, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but does not have works? Can his faith save him?"
Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Yaaqob 2:24, "You see then that a man is also justified by works, and not by faith alone."

Yaaqob 2:22, "Do you see that the faith worked together with his works, and by works the faith makes perfect?"

yeah, not fight the works of Yahweh and those who do and promote them/



Satan and its followers work in many ways, but one way is:

Fighting against those who keep Yahweh's Laws and have the faith in Yahshua:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."



Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

It is clear to me that many so called believers are walking in the spirit, problem is it is clearly not the Spirit of Yahweh.

Revelation 12:9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world."

Revelation 18:4, "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Come out of her(mystery babylon), My people, so that you do not partake in her sins, and so that you do not receive of her plagues."

The children of Yahweh LOVE His instructions, the children of satan hates Yahweh's instructions.

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

And again I state, By your own words, YOU PROVE YOU ARE TRYING TO BE SAVED BY LAW.

And Again, You have totally ignored what jesus said in John 3, John 6 and many other areas. and also what Paul said.

Again, Paul said we are saved by faith apart from works. lest any man should boast (so I must wonder why your boasting) and those saved will do the works (of obedience, of missions, of serving others etc etc) which God created them to do.

 

[Hizikyah]

if your too busy following thou shalt not how can you let God live the life for you? how will you surrender yourlifestyle to God and let him live for you when YOUR too busy " trying " to do it yourself you will always fail...

brother Josh, if one is too busy fighting following Yahweh's Law tooth and nail how can they:

Yeremyah 31:33, "...I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if your too busy following thou shalt not how can you let God live the life for you? how will you surrender yourlifestyle to God and let him live for you when YOUR too busy " trying " to do it yourself you will always fail...

They don't get it, They have to puff themselves up as worthy, while tearing everyone down as unworthy. They have yet to empty themselves and repent. Like the pharisees. they do not see the need to repent. They are doing enough on their own.

 

[homwardbound]

Ask that question in your prayer life considering this scripture. I am shy to answer your question because I am all but convinced that it will start another never ending conflict that I really don't what to be involved in. Hearing the truth of the law is more than condemnation by the law. I think it's a matter of thanking God for the law so that we can see our old nature that will never be gone until we die. The law is part of the mirror that James speaks of. James connects that mirror with the law of liberty.

Zechariah 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

If one believes they are not dead to sin by the cross of Christ yes a fact indeed

 

[eternally-gratefull]

brother Josh, if one is too busy fighting following Yahweh's Law tooth and nail how can they:

Yeremyah 31:33, "...I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

Because they are too busy trying of their own power not to sin (and failing all the while, even though they may deny it) and not doing the things God really wants them to do..

A slave who trusts his master does not follow his laws to try to be a good slave and earn his masters love. He knows what the master wants done, He trusts his masters plan. And he keeps his mind focused on the purpose his master is trying to accomplish, and in doing this things, he does not break his laws.

 

[Hizikyah]

And again I state, By your own words, YOU PROVE YOU ARE TRYING TO BE SAVED BY LAW.

And Again, You have totally ignored what jesus said in John 3, John 6 and many other areas. and also what Paul said.

Again, Paul said we are saved by faith apart from works. lest any man should boast (so I must wonder why your boasting) and those saved will do the works (of obedience, of missions, of serving others etc etc) which God created them to do.

No you clearly misunderstand me or purposefully misrepresent me, for I take all Scriptures into view not just ones that give me a gift, but also the ones that say I must follow Yahweh.

unless you want to be a saint in the catholic church you may want to bind this verse to your heart.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah.

 

[john832]

They don't get it, They have to puff themselves up as worthy, while tearing everyone down as unworthy. They have yet to empty themselves and repent. Like the pharisees. they do not see the need to repent. They are doing enough on their own.

After post after post, you still misrepresent and twist. Done and done.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No you clearly misunderstand me or purposefully misrepresent me, for I take all Scriptures into view not just ones that give me a gift, but also the ones that say I must follow Yahweh.

unless you want to be a saint in the catholic church you may want to bind this verse to your heart.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah.

lol.. Yet you are just like the catholics.. You claim you do not preach law. yet in the same breath, you state the law is required to be saved.
You contradict yourself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

After post after post, you still misrepresent and twist. Done and done.

I state the truth. I am not the one going around saying disobedience to gods law can cause loss of eternal life. you are!

 

[homwardbound]

The compelling force of of my fallen to sin is the "law of sin."

Elin, Law is not sin. Law is perfect and correct. The problem flesh Spirit that is dead, and so since the flesh is weak, The perfect Law can't be performed, and is a curse to the flesh, because again the flesh is weak and through Christ all sin is:

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So anyone walking in the flesh is condemned and why it is so important to be born again from God through the cross of Christ

 

[Elin]

I believe NONE will have eternal life unless Yahweh gives it to them, not even debateable in my mind.

Of course recieveing eternal life from Yahweh is conditional. Yahweh has set a criteria to enter HIS kingdom, entrance is not gained by what I choose, its gained but HIS criteria only.

And there is only one criteria, saving faith in Christ Jesus (Jn 3:18, 36).

It is summed up here.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

If you disagree with this you disagree with the Creator of all that is.

Well, let's look at what the Creator said.

The first thing that I notice is that it is the saints that are purified in this manner.
It is not the unbelievers who are purified in this manner in order to become saints.

They are already saints, the elect of God.

So unbelievers are not made saints by keeping the laws of Yahweh,
people keep them because they are saints.

Works only = dead

Faith only = dead

It is at this turn that you go opposite to the gospel of Christ Jesus.

You separate true saving faith from obedience.

The definition of saving faith is obedient faith, they cannot be separated.

There is no saving faith without obedience.

Any faith that does not manifest itself in obedience is counterfeit faith.

Your false dichotomy is a strawman.

According to the NT, justification is by saving faith alone, not by its manifestation of obedience.

 

[Hizikyah]

I state the truth. I am not the one going around saying disobedience to gods law can cause loss of eternal life. you are!

just Scripture:

Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:

#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Yeremyah 7:9-11, "Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, vow falsely, burn incense to Baal follow hinder gods you know nothing of, And then come and stand before Me in this House upon which My Name is called, and say; We are saved! Saved to do all these abominations? Has this House, which is called with My Name, become a den of thieves in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen this! says Yahweh."

Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."

 

[just-me]

This is exactly what I believe Christ meant when he said, if you believed moses, you would believe moses spoke of him.

I see it slightly different, in that Jesus is addressing to them about what He was saying. So the things Moses wrote would be clearly connect to what Jesus was speaking, and teaching. Jesus was clearly, in my opinion, saying that the Pharisees didn't understand the truth that Moses recorded about Him. From what I have read in the law, starting at Passover, and the temple worship, would clearly relate to Jesus. This would relate to the serpent lifted up, as the rock was hit so they could drink, why Moses was not allowed to enter the promised land, and so on.

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus also questioned Nicodemus because he didn't understand being born again. After all, Nicodemus was a scholar of the law and the prophets, a ruler of the Jews.

John 3:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

 

[homwardbound]

God has never saved by grace alone without laws,rules to live by. Grace would be a license to sin without rules,laws to live by. If we are saved by Grace thru Faith unto good works, we will still brake some of God's rules, and when we disobey we repent, we say, ( I'm sorry, I will try harder today, to obey,) Grace forgives and sends us back to the rules and says, try again, this time try harder so you don't brake MY rules., and make Me sad. If we continuously keep braking God's rules, God say, away with you, I don't love you anymore, you were never saved and never were My child. You must see salvation in this light, because none of us has looked into the Lamb's book of life ,so we don't know if our name is there,as a fact, for sure, we DON'T know.period.! We are only assured we are saved as we acts as saved people act.. Love to all, Hoffco

in Christ. all things are now permissible to me, but not all things are beneficial to me. Therefore I agree with God not to lie, steal, cheat, persuade others to get my own gain. I agree with God to die to me with Christ at the cross of, so that I might see the new life God has for me. This is also for everyone else.
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 

[Hizikyah]

And there is only one criteria, saving faith in Christ Jesus (Jn 3:18, 36).


Well, let's look at what the Creator said.

The first thing that I notice is that it is the saints that are purified in this manner.
It is not the unbelievers who are purified in this manner in order to become saints.

They are already saints, the elect of God.

So unbelievers are not made saints by keeping the laws of Yahweh,
people keep them because they are saints.


It is at this turn that you go opposite to the gospel of Christ Jesus.

You separate true saving faith from obedience.

The definition of saving faith is obedient faith, they cannot be separated.

There is no saving faith without obedience.

Any faith that does not manifest itself in obedience is counterfeit faith.

Your false dichotomy is a strawman.

According to the NT, justification is by saving faith alone, not by its manifestation of obedience.

Yaaqob 2:18, "Yes, a man may say: You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works!"

Isayah 29:13, "Therefore Yahweh said: Because these people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their reverence to Me is taught by the precept of men."