What Laws are still valid to christians

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I think it does matter for us to be edified, otherwise the story would never have been preserved for us to read. Every time the Pharisees didn't like the way the truth had been presented in its original form, they changed and skewed it to conform to what they were able to do. They didn't get the Spiritual meaning of the truth, so they changed it to conform to their self righteousness. They certainly didn't have a problem with what they had changed. It wasn't up for negotiation. Their word became their law.
Actually it is deeper.

The laws they followed were the laws made after the return from exile. They made the laws more stringent, in hopes that if people followed these stronger laws. it would be harder for them to break the real laws.. It is one of them human good things which turned to bite them, because as we see in the day of Jesus, the people took these new laws and made them equal with the laws of God.
Yes they also made some things easier. as I am sure they changed some along the way. But that was not even my point. they still could not follow their own law. Let alone Gods.. so they still should have listened to moses, and understood they were not holy. and were worthy of death, because they have failed.



 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I believe NONE will have eternal life unless Yahweh gives it to them, not even debateable in my mind.

Of course recieveing eternal life from Yahweh is conditional. Yahweh has set a criteria to enter HIS kingdom, entrance is not gained by what I choose, its gained but HIS criteria only.

It is summed up here.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

If you disagree with this you disagree with the Creator of all that is.

...........


Works only = dead

Faith only = dead

Faith + works = alive

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

The seed of satan fights against those who keep Yahweh's Laws and have the faith in Yahshua:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
The Faith + works = alive
Tell me whose works ours or God's through us?
and if no works through us whether flesh or Spirit would this make God's grace void?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yet because of flesh, it can try to make void the Law as to not be guilty and still harm others as in I am forgiven, so why not drink up all the wine, eat all the food wit no regard to others that might not have food in their homes. And have many more problems that Paul addressed to the Corinthians. Many are still Carnal and do make voids the Law, so they have an excuse to use the grace to harm others without the care that God gives in and through God's Spirit.
yet these peopel are just as dangerous as the legalists. Who use the law to puff themselves up. Think they are more righteous and more deserving. And trample on the grace of God.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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thank you my brother, HalleluYAHWEH for allowing us to share and grow!

also this is "light" and "gentle" info about the Talmud, I wont get into the real real nasty parts ( i can suppy where to find) but if your interested in learning more about the leaven of the pharisses, and it haelps a TON in understanding Yahshua's interaction with them, and unless this info is know nobody can fully understand these interactions, i can send you a few links etc.
I can clearly see, by your explanations, that you really don't like Jewdaizers (sp) Oh well. I'll leave decline for now what you invited us to learn for later, because right now I don't have the time. I will remember, if my old age doesn't catch up with me first. LOL:p
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Not quite. . .that doesn't fit the text.

Two kinds of slavery (Ro 6:20-23):

Slaves to sin = free from control of righteousness

Slaves to God = righteousness, eternal life

One is the wages of death, the other is the gift of eternal life.

Died to the law = the law has no more hold on, no power to condemn the believer who has died in Christ Jesus (6:2-7).

It's not about being freed from the world/sin, it's about being freed from the condemnation of the law.


Romans 8:1, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Yahshua Messiah, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
1 Yahchanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked."
Your point?

Do you search the Scriptures for words that will support your theology, or do you read the passages to understand them?

You continually present Scripture whose meaning is contrary to your point, although they contain words which you think demonstrate your point.

The ones who walk with him are the ones who are already abiding in him.

Their obedience is not the cause of their abiding, it is the result of their abiding.

Although the Scripture you present does deal with obedience, its meaning is contrary to your point that obedience results in abiding, rather than abiding results in obedience.

What is the cause of this failure to see the meaning of the text which contains the words you seek?
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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You totally missed the point.

Again i ask.


These people did many works in the name of Jesus, These are not the lawbreakers people like you want to run around claiming people are. These were people who loved the law of God and did the works of the law.

Yet Jesus said, Depart. for I never knew you. Why would he say this? Just because they sinned? We all have commited iniquity. thus as far as sin goes. We ALL deserve eternal damnation.
I see you got soft around the part where Yahshua condems Lawlessness.

Mattithyah 7:24, "Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, is like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

Mattithyah 7:26, "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, but does not do them, is like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand."

The words of Yahshua:

Revelation 22:14, "Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Where are the verses that say "thou shall be cursed for not rejecting ALL of Yahweh's Instructions and being a transgressor?"

I sincerely think you need to clear any pre conceptions you have and take Yahshua's words for what they are my brother.


Originally Posted by Hizikyah


Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

These people claim to " Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works" now many go "AHH HAH I GOT YOU WORKSWORKSWORKSWORKS you loseloseloselose!!!!! hahahahahahahah!!!!, but you see iniquity is not sin, iniquity is not being subject to Yahweh's Law. How many people in the world do "great works in the name of the Messiah" but they do not do anything according to what Yahweh actually commands? No instead they develop their own standard and ignore Yahweh's standard.

So who is obedienit to Yahshua's Commands and who is not? the one who subjects himself to Yahweh's Law or the one who rejects and will not subject themself to Yahweh's Law?

iniquity is:

#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:—iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #458.
α᾿νομι´α anomia; from 459; lawlessness:— lawless deed, lawless deeds, lawlessness

FROM:

#0459 ἄνομος anomos {an'-om-os} from G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; TDNT - 4:1086,646; adj

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) destitute of (the Mosaic) law
1a) of the Gentiles
2) departing from the law, a violator of the law, lawless, wicked

Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; lawless, that is, (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication a Gentile), or (positively) wicked:— without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.

Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #459.
α῎νομος anomos; from 1 (as a neg. pref.) and 3551; lawless, without law:— godless men, lawless, lawless one, transgressors, without the law, without law, without law.
 
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Actually it is deeper.

The laws they followed were the laws made after the return from exile. They made the laws more stringent, in hopes that if people followed these stronger laws. it would be harder for them to break the real laws.. It is one of them human good things which turned to bite them, because as we see in the day of Jesus, the people took these new laws and made them equal with the laws of God.
Yes they also made some things easier. as I am sure they changed some along the way. But that was not even my point. they still could not follow their own law. Let alone Gods.. so they still should have listened to moses, and understood they were not holy. and were worthy of death, because they have failed.



I haven't confirmed what you present from the Word of God. Do you have documentation on your explanation?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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LOL., "fish a wife"??? how is that done, ah, maybe, fish for a wife, LOL. that's better, but what I meant was to put a "," after fish, marry a wife,"take a sister with us." as Paul put it. But, back too the important error here, No one wants to agree with James 2:24 "You see then that a man is justified by works , and not by faith only." If you would "seriously" read my posts, you would see the Bible teaching that "only the righteous are saved". It is a good thing thing ,you are not in my church, you would leave real Quick, We would not be able to work together. LOL, We are all free to serve God the way we want to and the Judgment seat of Christ will take care of the rewards for "faithful" service. God will judge us all according to our "works"; Sorry, but alot of people are not going to make it to eternal life. Only those who trust and obey will be there. Take head to yourself lest you lose your reward of eternal life. Love to all, Hoffco
What are these works that James speaks of? Are they self flesh works or the works of Christ shown through us in God's born again Spirit?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Yaaqob 2:24, "You see then that a man is also justified by works, and not by faith alone."

Yes, but lets go back 2 more verses:

Yaaqob 2:22, "Do you see that the faith worked together with his works, and by works the faith makes perfect?"
So the works are not of the self, rather are of God living through us, yes?
 
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1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
You're a smart man. You should be able to find the verses I was referring to that clearly state we already have eternal life. If you don't know where they, then I guess you really don't know the bible that well. Instead of playing scripture tag, if you really want to know what those verses are, I will post them.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I see you got soft around the part where Yahshua condems Lawlessness.
If you see this. Then you did not read a thing I said. why is it you always pick and chose which parts you want to read and ignore the rest?

did you miss this part?


We all have commited iniquity. thus as far as sin goes. We ALL deserve eternal damnation.


How can you say I missed this part. when i said sin causes eternal damnation.

now do you want to answer the question. or keep trying to attack me by saying i did not say something I already said?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

So clearly Yahshua is against these Pharisical laws in the Talmud. So why is it 8 chapters later He tells us to "do all they say?"

Something is not right here. I was always bothered by this verse, until the truth set me free.

Every translation reads as such, as all Greek texts read this way:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

However Yahweh has left us truth!


Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

THIS IS THE BURDEN!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I haven't confirmed what you present from the Word of God. Do you have documentation on your explanation?

you won't find it in the word. you will find it in jewish history.

it can however be seen in the word.

The pharisees said jesus broke the sabath. He did not. He broke their new law. which was more stringent than Gods law. If you look at what jesus did, he purposely broke the laws they made up and were following. which is why they condemned him, they claimed he broke Gods law. yet he did not. he broke their version of Gods law.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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No problem. . .

It means a principle (law) that consistently operates.

My sinful nature (law, principle) consistently operates toward sin, despite the desire to do what is right, "law of sin" at work. (Ro 7:23)

Because of the new birth, I consistently desire to obey God completely, "law of my mind" at work.
(Ro 7:23)

My sinful nature (flesh) consistently resists my desire to obey God, "law of my members (flesh)" at work. (Ro 7:23)

The practice of sin consistently operates toward death, "law of sin and death" at work. (Ro 8:2)

Justification is by faith alone, "law of faith" at work. (Ro 3:27)

Belief in the gospel into which one looks with delight in its teachings, which belief consistently operates toward liberty from sin, "law of liberty" at work. (Jas 1:25)

The establishment of the Aaronic earthly priesthood, in contrast to the establishment of Christ's eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek, both Priest and King, "law of a carnal (fleshly) commandment," in contrast to divinity of Christ's priesthood.
Therefore through the cross let us reckon ourselves by the death of Christ we are dead to self, the flesh and alive to God to serve God inspirit and truth, by God giving us new life in the resurrected Christ, maybe, yes?
Unless the seed that falls into the ground and dies, there is no life is there?
 
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My brother I do not believe any man is saved by works of law.


this is truth, if man relied on his own works they would never be enough.

Also I want to add I have stated this over 10 times here, but the default position seems to be to yeel fallen from grace about those who actually want to follow Yahweh's instruction.

now I ask you to acess post 1268, and give me you commentary on Rev 22:12-15 and Matt 5:19, something I have asked you many times....
And I as well as others have explained it to you before. I personally get tired of repeating myself to people who don't seem to want to know the truth.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin, Law is not sin. Law is perfect and correct. The problem flesh Spirit that is dead, and so since the flesh is weak, The perfect Law can't be performed, and is a curse to the flesh, because again the flesh is weak and through Christ all sin is:

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So anyone walking in the flesh is condemned and why it is so important to be born again from God through the cross of Christ
My response was in the context that the word "law" in the NT means many things besides the Mosaic Law or God's law.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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You're a smart man. You should be able to find the verses I was referring to that clearly state we already have eternal life. If you don't know where they, then I guess you really don't know the bible that well. Instead of playing scripture tag, if you really want to know what those verses are, I will post them.
Will these verses help?

1 John 5:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 5:39-43 (KJV)
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]I receive not honour from men.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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If you see this. Then you did not read a thing I said. why is it you always pick and chose which parts you want to read and ignore the rest?

did you miss this part?




How can you say I missed this part. when i said sin causes eternal damnation.

now do you want to answer the question. or keep trying to attack me by saying i did not say something I already said?
certianly my use of english did not represent what I meant, and I apoligize for that. What I meant is you focus seemed more anti-works, as in what the people claimed to do rather than looking at WHY Yahshua says for them to get away, and again it is not because of sin, iniquity does not mean sin, it is because they wont subject themselves to Yahweh's Law.

iniquity is: #0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law

Sin is I am trying to live how Yahweh wants but I messed up, we all do that. But iniquity is im dont have to follow Yahweh old stupid Instructions!!!
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Therefore through the cross let us reckon ourselves by the death of Christ we are dead to self, the flesh and alive to God to serve God inspirit and truth, by God giving us new life in the resurrected Christ, maybe, yes?
Unless the seed that falls into the ground and dies, there is no life is there?
I like that comparison of the seed and the Son.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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want to know what faith and works truly means? look at what abraham did he showed he had faith by doing the works, what work was that? he said me an 5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Genesis 22:5-8


do you see that? that is faith and works right there, he had faith that when he got there God will provide a burnt offering for him and he did the work of his faith by carrying out what he was told to do, that is faith and works right there
thanks Josh and a little to add to that truth if I may?

Abraham also knew that if he did kill his Son, that God was able to raise his Son back to life, as what God did with his own Son later on. Thank you Father and Christ for this finished work you did for us all that do come to believe you. And thank you for your pouring out of your Spirit unto all of us that decide to believe you in your finished work, to bring us new life as what your son came to do.
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.