What Laws are still valid to christians

[Hizikyah]

Sometimes it is what a man doesn't say, rather than what he says, that reveals his heart. I have asked you before to declare who do you say should be followed (Moses or Paul) in regards to the commands of GOD regarding physical circumcision, and you refuse to answer. Very revealing.

Exodus 20:16, "You shall not bear false testimony against your neighbor."

Satan has entered your heart to say that a child of GOD who loves and believes in Christ has disregarded any commandment of GOD.

So you lie on me, you say Moses or Paul, when you asked me Moses or Christ and I answered you more than 3 times.

Say satan has fooled me, and than say you never disregard any Commandment of God, a few posts after you said:

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead

"So yes, that is a command I don't care about following because it doesn't pertain to me."





Yahchanan 10:27, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."

According to Scripture:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

 

[just-me]

OK its clear now, you don't have the holy spirit to be able to discern what Messiah commands.

Satan has entered your heart to say that a child of GOD who loves and believes in Christ has disregarded any commandment of GOD.

This is scary to me, so I'm careful how I label other people. I present this in love , and I hope you take it that way.

Mark 3:22-30 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The trouble with Christians today (I being one ) is that we all profess Jesus as our Savior but do not take Him as our Lord, we have to make Him Lord first for Him to become our Savior. To make Him Lord is to do whatever He commands us to do.

Who do you say should be obeyed in regards to physical circumcision? Moses or Paul? Moses commanded it; Paul forbade it (as a means of obedience to GOD).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now when I look around I see that the majority of Christians ARE doing just that......and because most are doing it then it must be okay. Most Christians ignore what God has said about pagan AND traditions of man...why do they do this?

because in 300 AD paganism entered the church and perverted its doctrines, its practices and its teachings.

And since MOST churches are an outflow of this one large church, They have brought many of the pagan practices with them.

Babylon is strong.. We should fight against it. Study to show ourselves approves, a workman who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is scary to me, so I'm careful how I label other people. I present this in love , and I hope you take it that way.

Mark 3:22-30 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

I take it as something coming from a fearful and undiscerning heart.

 

[just-us-2]

There are hundreds if not thousands of manuscripts that still have to be examined, this will take years and years to do, just recently a manuscript of Mathew was discovered among all what is there, and it is written in Hebrew.

Makes sense - Matthew was a Jew, was he not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The trouble with Christians today (I being one ) is that we all profess Jesus as our Savior but do not take Him as our Lord, we have to make Him Lord first for Him to become our Savior. To make Him Lord is to do whatever He commands us to do.

I disagree. we can not make him Lord before we are saved. Thats impossible, We do not even know him before we are saved, we have no capacity to do so. it takes the indwelling spirit to give us the knowledge, power and ability to make him Lord.

Even then, it will take trust, learning, trial and tribulation to cause us to grow in the love and knowledge of our Lord..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Makes sense - Matthew was a Jew, was he not?

Koine Greek was the "common language" of the roman empire. All people (including jews) would have been fluent in it.

The hebrew language would have been spoken by hebrews only. And most likely, only those in Isreal (remember on pentecost. The apostles spoke to the jews who where there to worhip in their own native language)

God would have had them write the words of scripture in a language everyone understood. so they did not have to worry anout translation errors. like we see so prevelent today in all current manuscripts (bibles)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So you lie on me, you say Moses or Paul, when you asked me Moses or Christ and I answered you more than 3 times.

Conversing with you is like talking with a used car salesman in which there's the foreboding sense that he's not being fully honest and trying to hide something. You find every means available to avoid fully disclosing what you believe, and hide behind trivial distinctions like me saying Paul instead of Christ (even though I have said Christ in the past to not afford you this opportunity to equivocate), even though you know exactly that my implication is that Paul spoke the commands of Christ.

 

[just-us-2]

Who do you say should be obeyed in regards to physical circumcision? Moses or Paul? Moses commanded it; Paul forbade it (as a means of obedience to GOD).

There is no need to choose - we are to adhere to the entire Bible, and when something appears to contradict something else in the Bible we are to study and pray until we understand it.

2 Peter 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[Hizikyah]

Koine Greek was the "common language" of the roman empire. All people (including jews) would have been fluent in it.

The hebrew language would have been spoken by hebrews only. And most likely, only those in Isreal (remember on pentecost. The apostles spoke to the jews who where there to worhip in their own native language)

God would have had them write the words of scripture in a language everyone understood. so they did not have to worry anout translation errors. like we see so prevelent today in all current manuscripts (bibles)

If you look into the evidence theat the Hebrew version is more original in content it is very compelling. There are a few critical errors in the Greek that are not in the Hebrew. So it is certianly worth looking into, but know that all translations of it are not equal.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There are hundreds if not thousands of manuscripts that still have to be examined, this will take years and years to do, just recently a manuscript of Mathew was discovered among all what is there, and it is written in Hebrew.

Would you care to document this so that we can verify, or is it just something you're repeating that you've heard?

 

[Hizikyah]

Conversing with you is like talking with a used car salesman in which there's the foreboding sense that he's not being fully honest and trying to hide something. You find every means available to avoid fully disclosing what you believe, and hide behind trivial distinctions like me saying Paul instead of Christ (even though I have said Christ in the past to not afford you this opportunity to equivocate), even though you know exactly that my implication is that Paul spoke the commands of Christ.

I answered you more than 3 times on this question, I *think* you wouldnt be happy unless I groveled at your feet.

BTW this is not fruitful.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you look into the evidence theat the Hebrew version is more original in content it is very compelling. There are a few critical errors in the Greek that are not in the Hebrew. So it is certianly worth looking into, but know that all translations of it are not equal.

The 'Hebrew version' exists in a Jewish commentary written in the 1300s. The verses from Matthew (interspersed among the commentary) are translations from either Greek or Latin. No Hebrew manuscript of Matthew exists.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I answered you more than 3 times on this question, I *think* you wouldnt be happy unless I groveled at your feet.

BTW this is not fruitful.

Then to demonstrate the integrity of your heart and settle this once and for all, please tell us who you say should be obeyed in regards to physical circumcision: Moses or Paul?

Do not equivocate or obfuscate; just say Moses or Paul. It is impossible to obey both.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There is no need to choose - we are to adhere to the entire Bible, and when something appears to contradict something else in the Bible we are to study and pray until we understand it.

2 Peter 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

That's what's called sitting on the fence.

 

[just-me]

Who do you say should be obeyed in regards to physical circumcision? Moses or Paul? Moses commanded it; Paul forbade it (as a means of obedience to GOD).

Paul endorses Moses' writing;

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Physical circumcision is an example of the heart's circumcision, and they are both in the law given to Moses in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Leviticus 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Luke 1:59 (KJV)
[SUP]59 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Philippians 3:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

How could Paul separate circumcision from himself? He never said it was wrong. He clearly exclaimed that self righteousness and bragging about ones righteousness by it was wrong. If we could understand that, we can know that it isn't the law that is weak, but the flesh was weak proven via the law. We need to be saved form it's condemnation that show us of our weakness. Without the law, we would see no reason to be saved, because if a person don't know that they are in jeopardy, they won't take any evasive action. That's where Christ comes in, because we can't save ourselves by the law.

 

[Hizikyah]

Then to demonstrate the integrity of your heart and settle this once and for all, please tell us who you say should be obeyed in regards to physical circumcision: Moses or Paul?

Do not equivocate or obfuscate; just say Moses or Paul. It is impossible to obey both.

First you asked a different question over and over and I answered more than 3 times, then you change the question and act like i never answer. All the while you refuse to answer my question over and over without even sweating it. To me this shows you probably reject those verses I question you about and you intent is not to build and grow the body of Messiah but to pick at thise who seek obedience to Yahweh.

Dont even try to come at me with you avoiding the question nonsense, You outright refuse to even reply them continually accuse me, if i answer with a single word my anser can easily be twisted, something I dont like to leave as a possibility, especially when you have lied on me in this thread. So..

I follow Yahweh and Yahshua, I do not make Mosheh or Shaul my head, any who do this are cursed. Concering what I imagine to be your main point, Yahshua says to keep the Law of Yahweh many times, so that is what I do.

About your circumcision crazyness, i was circumcised as a child and had no say, so this is not even on my radar, none the less I let the Scriptures speak and stand on them:

1 Corinthians 7:17-19, "But as Yahweh has allotted to everyone being called, so let him walk in Yahshua Messiah. And so I ordain among all the called out ones. Was a man already circumcised when he was called? Let him not be drawn into uncircumcision. Was anyone uncircumcised when he was called? Let him not be circumcised. Is it not true that uncircumcision accounts for nothing, but the keeping of the Laws of Yahweh accounts for everything? "

YLT
1 Corinthians 7:17-19, "if not, as God did distribute to each, as the Lord hath called each — so let him walk; and thus in all the assemblies do I direct: being circumcised — was any one called? let him not become uncircumcised; in uncircumcision was any one called? let him not be circumcised; the circumcision is nothing, and the uncircumcision is nothing — but a keeping of the commands of God."

I do not reject any Scripture what i reject are Scriptual lies that are not true to what i beliebve to be the meaning of said Scripture.

 

[Hizikyah]

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Intention from the beginning.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Paul endorses Moses' writing;


How could Paul separate circumcision from himself? He never said it was wrong. He clearly exclaimed that self righteousness and bragging about ones righteousness by it was wrong. If we could understand that, we can know that it isn't the law that is weak, but the flesh was weak proven via the law. We need to be saved form it's condemnation that show us of our weakness. Without the law, we would see no reason to be saved, because if a person don't know that they are in jeopardy, they won't take any evasive action. That's where Christ comes in, because we can't save ourselves by the law.

Why is that you and others cannot answer a simple question simply? Paul made it very clear that if one becomes physically circumcised as a means of obedience to law, he has cut himself off from Christ.