What Laws are still valid to christians

[homwardbound]

yet anyone to anwser atleast one of my questions i quoted from the scriptures.

You wrote truth in scripture, why is it that you need answer? Just curious

 

[Hizikyah]

Then please show how it applies to what I quoted, because I don't see it.

Originally Posted by Elin
This is the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2),
given through the NT writers, which you deny,
and try to alter to force fit it into your Judaism.
But Jesus is neither added to nor fitted into Judaism.
He is all, or he is nothing.
These are his terms, not ours.


"But Jesus is neither added to nor fitted into Judaism "

"try to alter to force fit it into your Judaism."

not being mean, dont think that.

It seems you dont understand what Judaisim is. It does NOT FOLLOW YAHWEH"S LAW, it follows the law of the pharisess as the ultimate voice. I dont say we are saved or justified by works, but I do say faith without works is dead. I speak obedience to Yahweh, not obedience to the rabbis or any man. the words of Yahshua support this obedience to yahweh's Law, Instructions sounds easier. obedience isnt oil and water when it comes to faith, obedience is the evidence of faith, period.

Hebrews 3:18-19, "And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey?
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

my take is that these men that walked with Yahshua observed faith and obedience as one in the same, and i think this verse shows that. look i dont want to argue with any of you, and dont want anyone to think I dont like them, I assume most here have already accepted the blood of Yahshua, Yahshua did His part, it is time for us to do ours, and be the kind of person He and Yahweh want us to be. i was a "christian" for years, yet never changed, because all the crhuches I waen to said, "gospel of John, repeat after me prayer, ticket to heaven stamped, pat on the rear end" all your saved! your not responsible for anything, nothing like this EVER:

Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may
come from the presence of Yahweh;"

the your saved contiue in your sins, helped ensure i didnt dig into the Scriptures for myself, but instead just took the pastors interpretation of them. you knoe I have literraly had people say to me, after asking them to study or watch or go to a service with me , "im already saved" like saying some words sealed the entrance in the kingdom, without any heart or change.. it bothered me, i lost sleep wondering how do i get this person to realize they need to hold fast to Yahweh everyday. im not saying this about any here but i am saying to all WE NEED TO FOLLOW all Yahweh's instructions everyday of our lives. we have been cleansed, we cant use that as an excuse to do sin.


prior post-
this is the misunderstanding with most lawless ones, they cant seperate the ways of a man of Yahweh from pharisees.

Yahshua continually spoke against Pharisee/Judaisim, never did He once speak against Yahweh's Laws.

the preachers of Babylon jumble Yahweh;s Law with the teaching of the Pharisees and take advantege of the ignorance of the people.

they act like the problem was " the pharisees kept the Law but they did it without love."

this is not even close to true, only one who has no knowedge of what is in the Talmud judaisim) could ever think this.

Mattithyah 15:1-3, "Then scribes and Pharisees from Yerusalem came to Yahshua, and said; Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

 

[Hizikyah]

And God's instructions were spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, and is the light in which all Scripture is to be understood.

That is NT Christianity.

certianly i have poor delivery, but how do my words stray from the words of Yahshua?

as Yahshua told us:

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must loveYahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 5You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

 

[homwardbound]

Justified = declared righteous, right standing before God, not guilty by forgiveness of sin through faith

yes absolute truth here elin, so am I now to just take it for granted and go and harm my neighbor seeing how it is that through Christ I am forgiven, as the carnal Corinthians did? God forbid right Sister? And is why 1 Cor. letter was written to them from Paul

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Old Covenant: how to remain in covenant with God = do or not do by your flesh.

New Covenant: how to remain in covenant with God = do or not do by your spirit.

We are to die to our flesh as the means by which we use for our walk before God.

We are to become alive to our spirit as the means by which we use for our walk before God.

No one was ever justified by the physical walk (flesh).

We are justified through faith by a walk done spiritually.

Amen, there are other aspects also.

Old covenant - Based on fear. Based on our ability, Based on self
New covenant - Based on Love and forgiveness, Based on Gods work alone, Based on Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It says that the Law was weak through (channel of an act) the flesh.

That is, because of the flesh, the Law was not able to make us righteous.

Which one then, flesh or Law, was at fault for the Law not being able to make us righteous?

Was it not the flesh which prevented the Law?

Again. we must ask this

1. Can the law make us righteous - Saved? No
2. Can the law make us righteous - (morally good) No

the law can do niether..

Even if not for the flesh, The law would not have the ability to make us righteous. It does not have that power. All it can do is show us how weak we are. In that it has power.

 

[Hizikyah]

Again. we must ask this

1. Can the law make us righteous - Saved? No
2. Can the law make us righteous - (morally good) No

the law can do niether..

Even if not for the flesh, The law would not have the ability to make us righteous. It does not have that power. All it can do is show us how weak we are. In that it has power.

it can show us the kind of person Yahweh wants us to be.

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."

Love in practice, not in jaw flappin:

Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness. Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am Yahweh. You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am Yahweh. If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure. I am Yahweh your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am Yahweh."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because you asked me about what the church considered, instead of asking me what I would consider. If the church considered the man was sinful, I would reject the church. Wow!! How long will this continue? I can't answer for others. Would they, or would they not, I don't know?

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
The question should be.

If a 25 y/o male came into their church. And his parents did not circumcize them. And he was circumcized by the hands of God in his heart. would they try to force him to be physically circumcised. And would they consider him to be in sin if he did not. and make it a yes or no answer.

No.

again.

1. I did not ask you anything, I said someone else should ask you
2. You responded,, You should have responded by inserting YOURSELF into the question.

There was absolutely NOTHIN in the question which even slightly represented a church of any kind.

The suggestion was to ask the people in question (which you were one of them) what each one of YOU would do. NOT the CHURCH

 

[homwardbound]

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, not by us, who then walk in the gift of righteousness
(Ro 5:17) from God (Ro 3:21).

So then by this Christ what is that we are? professors, possessors or both? Just curious, no right or wrong answer, I see a lot of insight from your posts as I do in other as well.
Thanks in advance for your answers, only seeking to learn and grow in God's miraculous grace

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, if you are not preaching the physical aspect of God's Law as a requirement for salvation, then may I ask you and EG what you two are disagreeing on?

We are not disagreeing on anything. It was not even about that. Some one was asking them a question. and getting no where. So I suggested to him to ask the people he was asking to ask a more direct question. So they could get a direct answer.

 

[homwardbound]

Look into it.

You'll find that we are justified by faith alone, not by a walk.

Justification means declared righteous, in right standing before God, not guilty, by forgiveness of our sin through faith by grace.

Righteousness is a gift (Ro 5:17) from God (Ro 3:21) by faith (Ro 1:17).

Absolute truth, and by belief, how does one respond, which is the fruit in the tree shown to all in love to all, is it not?

 

[Elin]

Addressed to believers (2:12-14, 19, 3:1, 5:13) after the death of Christ, John writes:
"If we (including himself) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we (including himself) confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
If we (including himself) claim we have not sinned (as did the Gnostics), we make him out to be a liar, and his word has no place in our lives." (1Jn 1:8-10)

All truth here Elin, and I have confessed this, now show me where it says to do this over and over again after I have received this forgiveness provided by God through Christ? Once one has received then they see truth and truth is by his death coupled with my belief Through Christ's death, I am made Holy to God and is where God has given me new life:

Well, "holy" does not mean totally without sin.

It means "set apart" from sin as a way of life.

John was talking about our remedy when we sin even as born-again believers.

All the NT language of death to sin, sin no more has power over us, etc., etc., etc,
is referring to sin as a way of life.
It is in contrast to obedience to the Spirit as a way of life.

But neither means that the born-again believer will not sin.
Anytime I grab the reins and act contrary to the will of my husband, I sin.
Anytime I act in selfishness contrary to Christ's law of love, I sin.
Anytime I desire something more than I desire God in Christ Jesus, I sin.
Anytime I worry about and do not trust God's provision for me, I sin.
Etc., etc., etc.

Born-again believers are not sinless.
They won't be until their mortal, dishonorable, weak, sinful bodies rise from the grave
as an imperishable, glorious, powerful, sinless bodies (1Co 15:42-44).

One has more opportunities to die to self when living with someone full time.
More demands are made on one when living with someone full time than when living alone.
More demands are made on one when one is responsible for others--children, aging parents, etc.

 

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by Elin
Look into it.

You'll find that we are justified by faith alone, not by a walk.

Justification means declared righteous, in right standing before God, not guilty, by forgiveness of our sin through faith by grace.

Righteousness is a gift (Ro 5:17) from God (Ro 3:21) by faith (Ro 1:17).

(not asking for myself but for understanding you view)

so if i have faith but do everything against what Yahweh and Yahshua say I will still enter the kingdom of Yahweh?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To me, EG is asking what is the proper thing for THE CHURCH to do according to Scripture. And you properly answered that that policy would be wrong.

Lets look at it again.

I was responding to this question which was being asked. And he was getting No Answer.

Here it is for all to see clearly:

Paul makes it very clear that if a man becomes circumcised (as a means of obedience to the law of Moses), he is cut off from Christ and the new covenant of grace.

Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing! And again I testify to every man who becomes circumcised, that he is under obligation to keep the whole law. You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:2-4​

The law of Moses says that every male must be circumcised, and that those not circumcised would be cut off from the old covenant (of law).

In the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3

The uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Genesis 17:14​

Who do you obey: Moses or Paul?

My suggestion was to ask it in a different way, since he was getting no where (it was directed to him.)

The question should be.

If a 25 y/o male came into their church. And his parents did not circumcize them. And he was circumcized by the hands of God in his heart. would they try to force him to be physically circumcised. And would they consider him to be in sin if he did not. and make it a yes or no answer.

As you can see. If one really read the guestion.

The word there would be Just-e me and the others.
Would they - refers to just me (not the church)

It was a personal question about what THEY would be, not their church.

And it was a yes or no answer. Which it took half the day to finally get a "no" answer

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thou shalt not murder is not useful in the physical realm? I honestly don't get it. If one keeps it in the intent, the Spirit, how can thy not keep it in the physical?

As Just me, He said he would only take it in the spiritual. Not in the flesh (physical)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you for seeing that. that policy is wrong for sure. I reject it.
One can't answer the question he asked with a simple yes or no as he demanded.

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
The question should be.

If a 25 y/o male came into their church. And his parents did not circumcize them. And he was circumcized by the hands of God in his heart. would they try to force him to be physically circumcised. And would they consider him to be in sin if he did not. and make it a yes or no answer. end of EG's quote.

I continue..
The proper thing would be "no?" Then one would ask "No what?" Or...The proper thing would be "yes?" Then one would ask "Yes what?"
As it escalated into more confusion, the obscurity of the truth that others were sharing would be accomplished. It is for the purpose of confusing the issue that he doesn't agree with or want to see. I've seen this from him twice before. I'm pretty sure it's on purpose.

Again, As I stated. It would be fine to Say NO. and this is why (which everyone does) Or YES and why

that was not the thing which got us going, What caused the confusion, is you gave the reason without the answer. which could be interpreted EITHER WAY.

And why are you still trying to defend yourself? This makes no sense!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Does God want us to get past the Old Testament? The New Testament makes it clear that 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

With that in mind, Paul is referring to the Old Testament, for the New Testament writings were part of that letter Paul was writing, referring to what Timothy already had in his possession. Henceforth, the scripture Paul was endorsing was the Old Testament, as we know it. It's profitable. Why would we want to get past it, or pass it by?

Peter said the same thing in his second epistle.

The question should not be why not do away with it. But how should one interpret it..

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, but is not the walking (doing) that justifies, it is the faith (believing) that justifies (Eph 2:8).

The doing is the by-product of the Faith that sanctifies, justifies and has made us holy through the son is it not?
And I know if no works, God's grace is not made void, either one responds in thankfulness or not!!!!!!!!!! and becomes a doer, not of themselves, rather God doing God's work through them. An exchanged life my life for his life. Could this be?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To all it many concern,

Perhaps, it just broils down to not understanding the manner they use to convey their thoughts. There is one on here who I absolutely cannot understand because of grammatical mannerisms and often find myself not agreeing with what I can gather from that person, but, in fairness, I do not assume that person's intent because of my inability to understand (No, sister Elin, not you ). I found this most precious gem to be of value in exchanges of thoughts: give not an adverse sentencing and one will not receive an adverse sentencing.

I have also found that in the exchange of thoughts it is our own thoughts which make us individuals. And sometimes, those thoughts clashes. But, really, does that make us demons working evil to the detriment of the others soul? Or, could it simple mean that we are at different stages in our walk to find what we know in part for now: Truth?

Does not the Scripture tells us how to distinguish spirits? Yet, neither one would deny that the Christ (the One sent to be the Savior) came in the flesh.

This I know: if someone disagrees with another, it does not necessarily mean they are saying you are wrong, but, in fact, saying: this is what I think. Yet, when declaring one wrong and perhaps a demon in sheep clothing, edification is thrown to the wind and condemnation is spitted upon the face.

lol. SO true.

And the funny thing (yes we should laugh and not be upset) Is we agreed. And if he just said no to begin with. the topic would have ended..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Honestly, I don't get mad at these people. Perturbed that they are so obtuse and evasive is more accurate.

I probably should not push so hard. I just want them to see what they are doing and try to help them. so conversations can go much smoother..

I think they take offense and push harder. When I am not even trying to offend them

Again, Like I showed, in the end, we agreed and he finally answered your origional question.