Something That Might Help in the Struggle Against Lust.

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks to all the courageous CC posters, and especially our guys, who have written about and posted tips on how to fight the battle against lust in a world that bombards us with temptation during every minute of the day.

I'm not sure if this will help anyone, but some time ago, God dealt with me over the issue of knowing what I really needed to repent of when struggling with the wrong thoughts.

I'm a person who talks to God about everything, even when I catch myself thinking about the wrong things--I'll tell God openly, "There it is, God (the wrong thought)... It's not like you can't see it... Now how do you want me to take it captive?"

Several years ago I took a few classes in Theophostic Ministry, which emphasizes asking the Holy Spirit where a certain issue in our lives originated from, and so I decided to ask God where these feelings were being given roots in my life. While I don't fight with lust every hour as some have bravely posted, I've noticed that my own "inappropriate thought" patterns seem to run on a cycle and I asked God exactly what it was that was triggering my sin. Like most, I figured, hey, if I'm dealing with lust in my thinking, I need to repent of lust, and so I did, repeatedly, but as much as I tried to repent and cut out all temptation, the thoughts would creep back around the corner.

And then one day, I can't even remember how it came about, but that still, small voice we all recognize seemed to point out to me that, oddly enough to me, my root sin wasn't actually lust in and of itself.

Rather, God convicted me of coveting. WHAT??? Coveting??? THEN I tried to argue with God about what sin I was actually committing!! "No, God, it's lust... can't you see? I know this type of sin when I think it!" I was totally confused.

But I thought about it a lot, and over time, He helped me understand what was meant by that. For myself, I've found that even PG-13 movies can be a trigger. Why? Because even if it's completely innocent and there is no nudity or questionable scenes involved, I'm thinking, "Man, I wish I had that... I wish I had this great guy to love... and to love me... I wish I had someone to talk to and bond with as deeply as (this couple is in the movie)... I wish I had someone to look at me like that and say the things he's saying to ME... I wish that guy loved me and not her... (even if he's a totally fictional character!!"

I've found similar thinking with rated R movies as well, that, unfortunately, are more graphic--"I wish I had someone to be with like that. I wish I had that kind of close relationship with a guy as understanding as he is... I wish I had close physical contact with someone I was truly connected with... I wish I had someone as faithful and trustworthy as he is... I wish I had a good guy who felt that way about ME..." (In a current experiment, I am cutting out all rated R movies for 6 months, which is tough for me, because I love action films, and they are often rated R.)

The key words, of course, are, "I wish I had..." to the point of anger and extreme bitterness because I don't have that.

God put it on my heart that it was this an unrighteous envy--it's not bad to wish for things in a general way, but when you're at a point of bitterness, anger, and self-pity that He hasn't given you those things yet or even at all... that's when the line is being crossed into sin--at least, it is for me. I think many others can relate to this as well. How often have we thought, "I wish I had someone who... looked like that. Was as hot as... this person I'm seeing on the screen or in a picture. Had what he/she has. Had that specific personality/place in life/career/position of power. I wish I had that person... even though I know they belong to someone else."

God was basically telling me, "I know you want those things, but for whatever reasons, I haven't chosen them for you right now, and you need to accept My will for your life right now instead of your own." (Which of course, I generally respond with, "Fine, God!! If it's Your will for me to be alone and have an empty heart for the rest of my life..." Like anything else... it's a process!!!)

Though I still repent of lust at times, I have learned that my own personal sin that opens the door to lustful thinking is almost always covetousness. Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I've learned that a big part of the battle is being aware of what your sin actually is that's opening the door to the wrong thoughts. It's much harder to eradicate a sin if you're constantly repenting of the wrong thing, or at least, not the true root cause.

And once I learned to repent of coveting, I've found that the "episodes" of fighting these feelings have become much less frequent. I'm usually still not happy about it, but I've learned to repent of putting what I wanted (and even thought I deserved!) above what God wants and is choosing for my life. The reason repenting from lust wasn't working as well was because lust was a secondary sin that was rooted in my original sin of coveting what I saw other people had (even when it was make-believe!) After I learned to repent of the root sin, this often seems to prevent the secondary sin from even occurring.

I still have hope that one day it may change and God may decide to put a great guy in my life... But for anyone else struggling out there as well, I thought it might be helpful to suggest that if you're constantly repenting of lust, maybe God is trying to tell you that the sin that's opening the door to such temptations might possibly be rooted in something else. Just ask Him, and He'll work with you to figure out exactly what it is, because I suspect that it may be different for different people. Ask Him where how this sin is entering into your heart, and He'll work with you at weeding out the root cause. It just might possibly be another sin (unforgiveness is also another common thing for me) or event in your life that you haven't let go of and is propping open a door in your heart to other issues. (Of course, maybe the root issue IS lust for some... but just in case it isn't...)

I'm sorry this post is so long, but I couldn't really find a way to edit the explanation of the process...

Thanks to everyone out there keeping up the good fight!! I'd love to hear your thoughts, experiences, and tips for keeping a pure heart and mind, and thank you for sharing!!

God bless!

 

[Misty77]

That is such a profound way of addressing this problem. Thank you for being so humble and so open. You tackled this topic without blaming others or wallowing in self-condemnation. I couldn't imagine anyone doing a better job!

 

[christian74]

Wow seoulsearch, I just finished reading your post and that was incredible on so many level. Thanks!

It was a female Christian friend from grad school, who shared how she talks about everything including her lust, that really helped me to open up to God in such a fearless manner - there's nothing to fear and nothing to be ashamed of. I then started to talk to Him about everything including lust and that really changed the dynamic of our relationship on so many level. I'm glad to know that there's someone out there who also talks to Him about everything, even in the very moment of being tempted and such.

I am kind of starting to go through what you said about 'Theophostic Ministry' recently as God has been causing me to go through my entire life to figure out the original causation of what I am struggling with. It rather started as coming to a decision to honor my father and my mother (although I'd been thinking I'm a pretty good son compare to rest of the world) because I thought keeping the Ten Commandments is what I can honor God the most at the time. Then I went through each commandments and thought I should tackle on the 5th Commandment - Honor your father and your mother. I decided to tackle on it because at some point I came to realize that sometimes I don't treat them with honor or with respect. As I try to honor them with everything I got God started to show me that there are issues in my life that I need to deal with. I began to feel the need for a companion (Genesis 2) about two years ago, and it was truly a great journey ever since as God really began to work in my life. The reason I'm bringing up this need for a relationship is because the most discussed topic (or rather subject I talk to Dad the most) is the question of where is she. I no longer ask that question as I know it's not about finding the right person but more importantly becoming the right person. And I believe God began to work in my life in a serious way because of both finally being able to enjoy His company (as He does all the time) and the need for a companionship.

If I may share what might help in the struggle against lust, I believe taking caution, i.e., putting "guardrails" to prevent yourself from getting into a vulnerable situation, is necessary but also more importantly having an understanding of His love for me is what I believe to be crucial. If you are in love with someone you wouldn't do anything that you know it will hurt that person. In past two years I began to truly understand how much He loves me; what I look like in His eyes. Reading the book of Psalms on a regular basis taught me a great deal about who I am in God's view. And that very understanding really empowered me in the struggle against lust/sexual temptation by diminishing the desire greatly. And of course... you don't fight lust/sexual temptation face to face but need to flee instead.

Well, looks like I just went on and on and not even sure what I said is even relevant hahaha... Just wanted to share what I have and thanks for the great post once again.

 

[colalella2891]

Amazing post... I felt like you were talking about me too. Thanks so much for posting.

 

[Stuey]

Thanks Seoul.

 

[GRA]

Good post, seoulsearch!

Something else that might help...

I find that "holding thoughts captive" in the form of not allowing myself to "see" any women as anything other than "my sister" ( or daughter, or niece - as appropriate, based on age difference ) works really well for "resisting the lust trap"...

However - "it absolutely has to be real" - it must be derived from genuine 'love and caring'.

The more interest you take in them as the [ whole ] person that they are - including that which is "deeper" than what can be seen "on the surface" - the more genuine the 'love and caring' can be. And, the more genuine the 'love and caring' becomes - the more interest you will naturally take in them as the [ whole ] person that they are... Nice, huh?

One day ( Lord willing ) - I will find my mate. Then, she will be my wife --- and every other woman in the world will be my sister...

Until then --- every woman in the world is my sister...

"Guys - this is the way you have to look at it - this is the approach you must take..."

Men - they are your sisters...
Women - they are your brothers...

"Think of them as such. Regard them as such. Treat them as such."

( "By the way --- without Christ, I could not do this..." )

 

[seoulsearch]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I'm a little late... Thank you all for being so kind and gracious. After all, publicly declaring that one struggles with lust is not usually something that's received very well in the Christian community!! I also find it funny, and a bit ridiculous, that for some reason, I could admit to God that I was fighting lust but was somehow offended at being convicted of coveting!!! For anyone who may be afraid to approach God on these subject... Don't give up. Ask Him to help you become more comfortable in your relationship with you... to put people in your life who can reassure you and act as role models of what God wants to be in your life.

Just a few other thoughts--perhaps some people out there can't relate to coveting a relationship--for me, it's the CONNECTION and the bonding that I covet more than anything else, but craving that to the point of putting my will above God's is what leaves me vulnerable to sin.

For someone else, it might be a little different--men always say they are visual. I believe God was trying to tell me that for men, the thought might be more like, "I really wish I were able to participate in and/or have the actions I'm seeing as part of my life right now." Or, you may be thinking, "I wish someone who looked like that was participating in those kinds of things with me..." In other words... some may be coveting the perceived emotions (such as attraction), others the perceived physical actions, and for others, the perceived good feelings or maybe a combination of everything. But for whatever reason, this is not what God is choosing for you to have in your life right now and we have to accept His will as to how to act and think in our current state.

If you find yourself constantly repenting of lust and it's not working, ask God what's going on, and possibly try repenting of coveting instead. I know it's a process but it's helped my thought life a lot. To be honest, I don't have those thoughts about guys I know because I feel it's greatly dishonoring to them. But, not that this is any better... I'll take characteristics from characters in movies and kind of build my own "Frankenstein Dream Guy" in my own imagination!! Kind of like, "Ok, he'd have the personality of X and the sense of humor of Y and he'd look a little like Z..." All as a way of justifying my own sin!

Christian74--I loved what you said about not asking for the right person anymore but BECOMING the right person. I think you're right on target. We're all so concerned about finding the right person for US that we lose sight of the fact that marriage is SERVICE... and we all have to be changed into the one who will serve whomever we may be meant to marry.

Thanks for all your great feedback and willingness to listen/read. If this does work for anyone, I'd love to hear how God may minister to you in this way, so please feel free to PM me if you like.

 

[GRA]

OOPS!

any women

any woman

..........

 

[PopClick]

Awesome thread! So many times, we go after the symptom instead of the disease.

 

[xXErraticEmilyXx]

I think I have a coveting problem as well. Other than lust, I want a lot of things I don't have. Even more in depth, I only lust after what I can't have. Once I have it, I don't really care anymore. The chase is over. I really like this thread and I want to thank you for posting. It isn't too long and I read every word. Thank you so much for this eye opener an thanks to the Lord for bringing us to this conclusion.

 

[PennEd]

I found it very interesting to read a womans perspective on lust. Your lust seems to emanate from a desire for closeness and intimacy, and although I am by no means trying to minimize that, it is entirely different from my, and I suspect most mens, thinking about lust. For me, to be blunt, it is a desire to have physical sex with a woman I might see on tv or walking down the street or virtually anywhere. NOTHING worked for me for many yrs, EVEN after being saved. I thought saying the sinners prayer would do it, I thought being Baptised would do it, I thought weening myself off of it would do it. All to no avail. THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET. The Lord never gave up on me, and I now thank Him for His chastisement that He gave me during this time. The Holy Spirit finally gave me a greater understanding (certainly not complete) of Christs Grace. The key is to understand that every moment of every day we all have a choice. A choice to feed and nourish our flesh or feed and nourish our Spirit. Because I live in my fleshly body I will never be totally free from the lust that constantly bombards me, BUT I now believe and understand that I DON'T have to obey it, and I can starve it, by feeding the Spirit, to lessen it's impact. I'm very glad to hear you have found relief from your lustful thoughts. I like the idea of trapping our thoughts at the time of conception and giving them to the Lord.

 

[ServantStrike]

I wasn't able to give this thread the full attention it deserves, but Seoul this is a very informative and wonderful post. Also how great is it that you didn't get run out of town by an angry pitchfork-weilding mob? CC contains some amazingly mature posters.

And It's funny you came to the conclusion about coveteousness you did. I've also found that extremely true myself, even as a guy. At one point I had a backlog of romantic (not dirty) movies I wanted to watch with a potential girlfriend. That backlog isn't there any more. Overly romantic sap I must have been. I just abandoned the concept altogether.

I'm a big proponent of being content in one's singleness before even pursuing a relationship now. Its like, if we aren't strong on our own, how on earth are we supposed to deal with another person's baggage as well as our own?

I know it flies in the face of happily-ever-after and in the face of all of those who (even within the church) have grown so much stronger in their faith after entering into a relationship, but at the end of the day, it's not air, you don't need it. Since it's optional, one might as well be happy in their own skin.

I found it very interesting to read a womans perspective on lust. Your lust seems to emanate from a desire for closeness and intimacy, and although I am by no means trying to minimize that, it is entirely different from my, and I suspect most mens, thinking about lust. For me, to be blunt, it is a desire to have physical sex with a woman I might see on tv or walking down the street or virtually anywhere. NOTHING worked for me for many yrs, EVEN after being saved. I thought saying the sinners prayer would do it, I thought being Baptised would do it, I thought weening myself off of it would do it. All to no avail. THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET. The Lord never gave up on me, and I now thank Him for His chastisement that He gave me during this time. The Holy Spirit finally gave me a greater understanding (certainly not complete) of Christs Grace. The key is to understand that every moment of every day we all have a choice. A choice to feed and nourish our flesh or feed and nourish our Spirit. Because I live in my fleshly body I will never be totally free from the lust that constantly bombards me, BUT I now believe and understand that I DON'T have to obey it, and I can starve it, by feeding the Spirit, to lessen it's impact. I'm very glad to hear you have found relief from your lustful thoughts. I like the idea of trapping our thoughts at the time of conception and giving them to the Lord.

Like a hunter who sets his sights on a really tasty looking deer, or a heat seeking missle. I know what you're talking about there man. That gets better over time and with the Holy Spirit. You'll go from what everyone tells you is a need to something you wish you had (a want), to ehh, I'm still breathing I'm content enough.

Keeping things at eye level helps a lot too.

 

[seoulsearch]

I wasn't able to give this thread the full attention it deserves, but Seoul this is a very informative and wonderful post. Also how great is it that you didn't get run out of town by an angry pitchfork-weilding mob?

It was even worse than that, Servant... It was an angry mob armed with flaming SPORKS!

I barely survived with my lunch intact.

(I have some serious thoughts to post later when I have more time. )

 

[Liamson]

Some of it is Pride too....


If someone that beautiful would love me, then the world would see that I'm worthy of respect and love. I wouldn't be some nobody anymore, I would be loved and adored. Maybe then the world would accept me and invite me in. Maybe then I will feel like I belong somewhere, because I don't belong here. I better find someone, that will be the key to fitting in.



Some of it is Narcissism...


I'm just the cats pajamas. Therefore, It should be my right to have someone. I deserve someone who is amazing and treats me like the Prince that I know I truly am. And if my rights are violated then I will be angry and crazy. If I can't get anyone its because they are just too stupid to see how special I am, too shallow to see how deep I am, to ugly to see how pretty I am, and too foolish to see how wise I am.



At the end of the day its wanting something that someone else has, even if its them. If you want someone, its not the same as wanting what is best for them. Its coveting. Being in a really good relationship means being grateful. It doesn't ask what is in it for me. It doesn't have wants. It doesn't seek for itself. It isn't a struggle. Its grateful for each moment and hopeful for the future. It delights in everyone's good fortune without envy or criticism, it is content with simply being a relationship.

 

[seoulsearch]

Hey everyone,

Sorry I'm a little late... There were some other thoughts I was working on before deciding to post. I really enjoy other's insights and Pop is so right in that we often go after the symptoms instead of the cause. I think this was exactly the point of what God was trying to tell me.

Liamson is right on target as well, in that it can be any number if underlying issues. I guess my main point in writing this thread is that I've seen so many brave people here who are willing to share their struggles, and this approach may be another way to help win some of those daily battles. If we constantly repent of something but yet keep going back to it... Maybe God is trying to dig deeper into our heart and tell us the issue is something else. And, it could be something we definitely don't want to repent of (as I've written, for some reason, I was very reluctant to repent of coveting.)

I mentioned Theophostic Ministry... the founder is a licensed psychologist who specializes in victims of sexual abuse. He had one client who was struggling with addictions to these kinds of issues and not getting better--a man in his 30's, if I remember right--and he tried every technique and prayer he had learned to do throughout his ministry, but nothing was working.

When they prayed about what the root cause of this addiction was... The young man had been the victim of abuse perpetrated by a neighbor, and was in his late teens when it happened. However, God convicted him and told him he needed to repent--because the origins of the abuse were not his fault. But the fact that he continued to go to his neighbor's house, knowing full well what would happen, was the sin that had opened the door for his addictions to take root and grow.

I will never forget that story. WOW!!! This person had to have humility of superhuman capacity (well, of course, God helped him, which is why he was able to repent of it)--but almost immediately, he found victory in this area of his life.

I found Penn's answer interesting as well, as I've read about this a lot--the fact that men are more physical/visual (as Servant stated... like hunting a piece of meat), and women are often more relational--it can't be just a physical encounter, it has to have some sort of emotional foundation. At least, I know that's how I am.

For me, a good-looking guy alone isn't all that tempting. Sure, I can appreciate his attractiveness, but I'm not thinking those thoughts about him. I can only speak for myself, but it's when a guy is especially kind, attentive, faith-driven with high morals and good manners... Someone who lives by a Godly code of ethics and doesn't care if other people put him down for it... That I may have to pray for some serious curbs around my thought life.

Thank you all again for being so willing to share!! (I have an idea for another thread... But as usual... Maybe when I've had more time to think and pray about it.)

 

[wayland]

A (female) friend of mine told me that the material you mentioned (the PG-13 films that make you think things like that) can be labelled "emotional porn" (EP); the idea is that, just as visual porn stimulates men, so emotional porn stimulates women. That's obviously the over-simplified version -- men can be stimulated by EP too, and women by VP. HTH,

 

[KJV15John11]

I found it very interesting to read a womans perspective on lust. Your lust seems to emanate from a desire for closeness and intimacy, and although I am by no means trying to minimize that, it is entirely different from my, and I suspect most mens, thinking about lust. For me, to be blunt, it is a desire to have physical sex with a woman I might see on tv or walking down the street or virtually anywhere. NOTHING worked for me for many yrs, EVEN after being saved. I thought saying the sinners prayer would do it, I thought being Baptised would do it, I thought weening myself off of it would do it. All to no avail. THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET. The Lord never gave up on me, and I now thank Him for His chastisement that He gave me during this time. The Holy Spirit finally gave me a greater understanding (certainly not complete) of Christs Grace. The key is to understand that every moment of every day we all have a choice. A choice to feed and nourish our flesh or feed and nourish our Spirit. Because I live in my fleshly body I will never be totally free from the lust that constantly bombards me, BUT I now believe and understand that I DON'T have to obey it, and I can starve it, by feeding the Spirit, to lessen it's impact. I'm very glad to hear you have found relief from your lustful thoughts. I like the idea of trapping our thoughts at the time of conception and giving them to the Lord.

For me, closeness and intimacy was EXACTLY what I was looking for, desiring. Unfortunately, that is what got me into trouble. Even though my heart was pure and genuine, what was offered to fill it was not, even at the hands of Christian women. I think that we all can have the right motives, male or female, but we still need to consider the ramifications of allowing pure thoughts to wander into corruptible actions.

As a separate question, is it possible and a sin to lust after your spouse?

 

[GRA]

As a separate question, is it possible and a sin to lust after your spouse?

No.

Lust is based on having a desire for someone who is not yours to desire.

Your spouse is yours to desire.

That is part of what marriage is all about -- every man and woman having someone they can desire - and express that desire to - without sin.

 

[Liamson]

A while ago, like 2004, I was hanging out with a girl whose best friend was a "Dancer." The topic never came up a lot BUT, the few times it did I learned a lot. More than I probably should have.

She said that most of the men she met at her work, were there because they were lonely, not horny or dirty perverts. She said that most of her job was simply to sit hold listen and talk. It wasn't what you see in movies.

I'm not advocating what she did. There were horror stories as well but, the majority of the people she saw regularly were just lonely guys who wanted someone to talk and listen to. They wanted the company more than the entertainment.


For many of the same reasons that people come to CC, people are choosing to do other things.

 

[KJV15John11]

A while ago, like 2004, I was hanging out with a girl whose best friend was a "Dancer." The topic never came up a lot BUT, the few times it did I learned a lot. More than I probably should have.

She said that most of the men she met at her work, were there because they were lonely, not horny or dirty perverts. She said that most of her job was simply to sit hold listen and talk. It wasn't what you see in movies.

I'm not advocating what she did. There were horror stories as well but, the majority of the people she saw regularly were just lonely guys who wanted someone to talk and listen to. They wanted the company more than the entertainment.


For many of the same reasons that people come to CC, people are choosing to do other things.

That's very insightful. I guess we really don't know people until we have walked in their shoes.

Do you think that seeking company in that environment is a slippery slope that leads them into lust or pornography? Maybe that is why it is so prevalent in our own churches. A lot of lonely men seeking something outside of God to fill their lives.