What Laws are still valid to christians

[just-me]

Are we to follow the Law or the Spirit?

Does not the Spirit have the same Law?

I guess the question which remains is: how do we implement the Law in our life? Through the Law which has death attached to it or through the Spirit who leads to the Life?

Good point! God is Spirit and He gave the law. It hasn't changed. But through Christ we have changed. Everything God has ever said or done has never changed because God doesn't change and neither does Jesus.

Malachi 3:6-9 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.


Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

John 4:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[cfultz3]

Acts 2 v29 makes it clear were king David was and still is no ifs no doubts no speculation ... King David is I his grave unto this day amen

His body is, but who were they who came up out of their graves when Jesus was resurrected?

 

[cfultz3]

Good point! God is Spirit and He gave the law. It hasn't changed. But through Christ we have changed. Everything God has ever said or done has never changed because God doesn't change and neither does Jesus.

Malachi 3:6-9 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.


Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

John 4:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The only thing which changed is us and how we are led, either into death or into the Life. If we are led into death by the Law, then who shall be our Messiah, seeing that He died just once. I must say your observation is quite telling....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good point! God is Spirit and He gave the law. It hasn't changed. But through Christ we have changed. Everything God has ever said or done has never changed because God doesn't change and neither does Jesus.

Malachi 3:6-9 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.


Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

John 4:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Your right, The same God who saved thos before the law, The same God who declared noah, abraham and others as being righteous before him before the law. The same God Declared the same people the same way who had the law. And the same God who declairs us today, apart from the law.

The law was not given to make us righteous, or to show us how to be morally good. It was given to show us how bad we are and how unable we are to follow it.

 

[Elin]

Amen!

Ephesians 2:15–18 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,
He abolished that which was enmity (the thing which causes enmity, or hatred, or Hostility between two groups or people,
in the context here, between mankind and God)

Look at the context again:

"Remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth, uncircumcised. . .were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenant. . .but now you have been brought near through the blood of Christ. . .who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in his flesh the (ceremonial) law with its commandments and regulations." (Eph 2:11-15)

The context shows that the two groups of v.14 were Gentiles and Israel.

In v.15, "His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two."

Again, the two are Gentiles and Israel.

You don't create a new man either out of God and mankind,
nor out of mankind and the law.

The text is dealing with two different enmities, both resolved by Christ's death on the cross:

1) enmity between Jew and Gentile, caused by the ceremonial defilement laws, which he abolished (v.15), and

2) enmity between mankind and God, caused by sin, which his propitiating sacrifice remedied.

You're applying the cause (the law) of the first (enmity between Jew and Gentile)
to the second (enmity between God and man),
and omitting the cause (sin) of the second (enmity between God and man) altogether.

The thing which caused enmity between God and man? The commandments, the ordinances of the law

You know better than that.

The enmity between God and man (Ro 5:10; Col 1:21) was sin (Ro 5:9), not the law.

 

[cfultz3]

The only thing which changed is us and how we are led, either into death or into the Life. If we are led into death by the Law, then who shall be our Messiah, seeing that He died just once. I must say your observation is quite telling....

After thinking about my reply, it sounded like I was not in agreement with you, but I was saying this in agreement with you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look at the context again:

"Remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth, uncircumcised. . .were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenant. . .but now you have been brought near through the blood of Christ. . .who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in his flesh the (ceremonial) law with its commandments and regulations." (Eph 2:11-15)

The context shows that the two groups of v.14 were Gentiles and Israel.

In v.15, "His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two."

Again, the two are Gentiles and Israel.

You don't create a new man either out of God and mankind,
nor out of mankind and the law.

The text is dealing with two different enmities, both resolved by Christ's death on the cross:

1) enmity between Jew and Gentile, caused by the ceremonial defilement laws, which he abolished (v.15), and

2) enmity between mankind and God, caused by sin, which his propitiating sacrifice remedied.

You're applying the cause (the law) of the first (enmity between Jew and Gentile)
to the second (enmity between God and man),
and omitting the cause (sin) of the second (enmity between God and man) altogether.


You know better than that.

The enmity between God and man (Ro 5:10; Col 1:21) was sin (Ro 5:9), not the law.

lol. I can;t comprehend your thinking.

It is plain in the text.

Ephesians 2:15–18 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

The enmity is the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. You can;t twist it to mean sin.

Sin is the reason the law makes us separated from God. Because THE law condemns us.

 

[Josh321]

lol. I can;t comprehend your thinking.

It is plain in the text.

Ephesians 2:15–18 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

The enmity is the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. You can;t twist it to mean sin.

Sin is the reason the law makes us separated from God. Because THE law condemns us.

it's sad that all the knowledge has to go to waste, it's exactly what happen to isaiah, i can't remember which chapter but he was talking to the lord, saying how long must he witness to those with eyes that are blind and ears that are deaf

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

SUBMITTING TO YAHWEH"S INSTRUCTIONS, ALL OF THEM IS NOT ESTABLISHING YOUR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS...

it is submitting to Yahweh.

Physical circumcision is/was one of YHWH's instructions through Moses.

Paul instructed us not to do physical circumcision as a means of obedience to YHWH's law.

Which instruction should someone submit to in regards to physical circumcision? Moses or Paul?

 

[Elin]

Look at the context again:

"Remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth, uncircumcised. . .were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenant. . .but now you have been brought near through the blood of Christ. . .who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in his flesh the (ceremonial) law with its commandments and regulations." (Eph 2:11-15)

The context shows that the two groups of v.14 were Gentiles and Israel.

In v.15, "His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two."

Again, the two are Gentiles and Israel.

You don't create a new man either out of God and mankind,
nor out of mankind and the law.

The text is dealing with two different enmities, both dealt with by Christ's death on the cross.

1) enmity between Jew and Gentile, caused by the ceremonial defilement laws, which he abolished (v.15), and

2) enmity between mankind and God, caused by sin, which his propitiating sacrifice remedied.

lol. I can;t comprehend your thinking.

It is plain in the text.

Non-responsive.

Yes, the context is very clear that vv.14-15 refer to enmity between Jew and Gentile,
while v.16 refers to enmity between mankind and God,
both enmities dealt with on the cross,
where the former was removed by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations,
and the latter was remedied by forgiveness of sin through faith in his blood (Ro 3:25).

Sorry you cannot understand the context of vv. 11-15, for they are quite clear.

 

[Graybeard]

Physical circumcision is/was one of YHWH's instructions through Moses.

Paul instructed us not to do physical circumcision as a means of obedience to YHWH's law.

Which instruction should someone submit to in regards to physical circumcision? Moses or Paul?

You keep repeating this and I think it is a weak argument simply because it was not Moses's instruction, it was Gods Instruction. (this does not mean that I believe we have to be physically circumcised today)

 

[cfultz3]

Lord,

I just want You, my Righteousness, to know that I cannot even walk without You holding my hand.

[video=youtube;fxhJdT01JjM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxhJdT01JjM[/video]

 

[Josh321]

what a wonderful song! the old songs are completely filled with the holy ghost in them, i especially like brother Jessie songs this is one of my fav I AM REDEEMED! BY THE GRACE OF GOD [video=youtube;ObGzri9SuKY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObGzri9SuKY[/video]

 

[cfultz3]

what a wonderful song! the old songs are completely filled with the holy ghost in them, i especially like brother Jessie songs this is one of my fav I AM REDEEMED! BY THE GRACE OF GOD [video=youtube;ObGzri9SuKY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObGzri9SuKY[/video]

Praise God, our Mighty Song within.

How the blind need the Guiding Light to even walk rightly....

 

[Josh321]

no one really understands how overwhelming this is for me...i mean the only way any to get to God is if he calls them first... who am i that he would call me to be apart of his family, it's a question i must ask when i see him, i mean one day i'm smoking with friends then the very next day God just completely.. change my life i know most of you seeing me typing alot and being involve in alot of threads and probably think i was like this all my life, but i hadn't even read the bible since my father passed or even pray for 3 years i didn't know nothing, i don't even know where i have all of this knowledge from, i'm still amazed even today God is such a good God don't even know how much to thank him...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You keep repeating this and I think it is a weak argument simply because it was not Moses's instruction, it was Gods Instruction. (this does not mean that I believe we have to be physically circumcised today)

How in the world is it weak? GOD said not becoming circumcised in the flesh would cut one off from him.

Paul said don't become circumcised in the flesh as a means of obedience to GOD's law, because doing so would cut one off from Christ.

What's weak are the arguments of those who claim all of GOD's laws are equally valid, and all must be obeyed; and GOD never changes; and the law never changes, etc., etc., because it is beyond dispute that it is impossible to obey both commands. It is a logical contradiction. THAT is weak.

 

[Josh321]

Praise God, our Mighty Song within.

How the blind need the Guiding Light to even walk rightly....

you gotta really listen the lyrics though, you can see it is coming from his heart and the holy spirit has given him understanding

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Non-responsive.

Yes. I quoted the post in context, and took the literal interpretation.

And that was non responsive (rolls eyes)

Yes, the context is very clear that vv.14-15 refer to enmity between Jew and Gentile,
while v.16 refers to enmity between mankind and God,
both enmities dealt with on the cross,
where the former was removed by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations,
and the latter was remedied by forgiveness of sin through faith in his blood (Ro 3:25).

Sorry you cannot understand the context of vv. 11-15, for they are quite clear.

lol.. Why don't you be more humble, and say you just do not agree?

The context is that God. Took the law out of the way, And in doing so. took the thing which was anmity with the Jew who had the law. And the gentile who was not given the law. Yet STILL CONDEMNED them, out of the way.

You made a few mistakes here.

1. You added the word (ceremonial) to vs 15. You know better than to add this. The ceremonial law NEVER separated anyone. In fact the ceremonial law was even given the gentile. If they wanted to participate in the Jewish law. They had to follow the same ceremonial laws. and do the same as the jews did..

2. You asumed it was the ceremonial law which the jews were not able to keep (as shown in peter) it was not. It was the MORAL LAW. the Jews kept the ceremonial law quite well. as did the many Gentiles (like King Davids grandmother etc etc).

sorry, I must make scripture agree with each other. Not disagree.

The jew and gentile was never separated in the body of Christ. Only as unbelievers..

 

[cfultz3]

no one really understands how overwhelming this is for me...i mean the only way any to get to God is if he calls them first... who am i that he would call me to be apart of his family, it's a question i must ask when i see him, i mean one day i'm smoking with friends then the very next day God just completely.. change my life i know most of you seeing me typing alot and being involve in alot of threads and probably think i was like this all my life, but i hadn't even read the bible since my father passed or even pray for 3 years i didn't know nothing, i don't even know where i have all of this knowledge from, i'm still amazed even today God is such a good God don't even know how much to thank him...

At least we will have eternity to even start to begin asking......Wonder if we will have schools to ask questions...lol

 

[Josh321]

i actually use to question myself though saying.. they are people who have tried to be good their entire life and go to church almost whenever they can and never come to terms with the power of God but yet still God would pick someone like me, but then i realise in the bible that God is not a respecter of person doesn't matter how much good or how much bad you did if your predestinated you will get that calling, i believe many people get a call but they never do the right thing and accept that calling