What Laws are still valid to christians

[KohenMatt]

if he lives in you as you say why you trying to be justified by the law, if God lives in you, you will KNOW the righteousness of God and you wouldn't even be talking about laws and all of that you would feel what he meant when he said he came to fulfill the law

I'm not trying to be justified by the Law. Something I've said over and over again.

I CAN'T be justified by the Law. It's impossible.


Jesus told His disciples, the ones who had already given their lives over to Him, to follow the Law and to teach others to do so. I'm not aware of anywhere that Jesus His disciples not to follow the Law.

Here's the relationship between grace and law. I'm saved, justified or made righteous because of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus and the mercy and grace He extends to me.

My following the law is one of my responses to that grace. Not to gain any extra favor in His sight, but because I love Him and want to obey Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually e-g, I agree with everything you said here. I'm saying that because Jesus was talking to His disciples in Matthew 5, it is applicable to us well. When He tells us they should follow the Law and teach others to do so, that applies to us as well

But the law is more than the mosaic law. Which is what he showed them.

You can;t follow the mosaic law. and claim you are following the will of God. there is so much more to being a christian and being righteous followers of God that that. Which is the point Jesus made.

And as I've said before, if you're physically keeping the law out of obligation only, you profit nothing (except a few physical benefits). But if you do them in Spirit and Truth, because you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, that's the key.

is it the key? Is me seeing the law which says do not commit adultry the key to me being righteous and not sinning. or is the key to love and serve others, and not think of self?

The only thing the aw can do is convict me if I falter and fall to temptation.

Again, As jesus plainly showed, the law can not even show me completely what true sin is.. It just gives us a background.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not trying to be justified by the Law. Something I've said over and over again.

I CAN'T be justified by the Law. It's impossible.

I will back your statement, You have never claimed this..

 

[Josh321]

I'm not trying to be justified by the Law. Something I've said over and over again.

I CAN'T be justified by the Law. It's impossible.

so what are you doing then? you claim over and over that we must keep the 10 commandments now your confusing me

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so what are you doing then? you claim over and over that we must keep the 10 commandments now your confusing me

he is claiming that we are righteous followers of God if we keep them, and we MUST use them and follow them as Christians.

which I disagree with. there are far more important things we need to worry about. if we worry about them, we will not break the ten.

 

[KohenMatt]

he is claiming that we are righteous followers of God if we keep them, and we MUST use them and follow them as Christians.

which I disagree with. there are far more important things we need to worry about. if we worry about them, we will not break the ten.

I think one of the confusions is what is meant by the statement that we "must use them and follow them". The term "must" implies that something is contingent on us following the Law or walking in obedience.

"Must" I follow the Law to be saved? No.
"Must" I follow the Law to show God that I love Him? No.

I musn't follow the Law for anything. I follow it because it's one of my responses to the grace He's shown me.

And I agree with what you said, there are more important things we should worry about. As Jesus said to the Pharisees

Matthew 23:23
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think one of the confusions is what is meant by the statement that we "must use them and follow them". The term "must" implies that something is contingent on us following the Law or walking in obedience.

"Must" I follow the Law to be saved? No.
"Must" I follow the Law to show God that I love Him? No.

I musn't follow the Law for anything. I follow it because it's one of my responses to the grace He's shown me.

And I agree with what you said, there are more important things we should worry about. As Jesus said to the Pharisees

Matthew 23:23
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

which was my point earlier.

If I am doing the acts of ministry, which according to scripture is my TRUE act of worship (making disciples. Teaching the things of God. Giving to the poor. Helping widows and those in need, Loving and serving my brothers and sisters in Christ, Showing the love of God to my friends, my co-workers, my neighbors and yes, even my enemies) I will not have to worry about the law of moses. I will not break any of the commands.

God did not tell us to go our and always remember do not commit adultry, he said if you do, you have sinned and thus broken the command and are guilty.

He said, I have given you these things (by the spirit) do them, and you will not fulfill thelust of the flesh (which comes form the law, because the law exposes those lusts)

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

E-G states that none of the above that is bolded is in the OT. Let's test everything and see if that is true.

1) Gen 34:2 And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her.

2) Gen 39:7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
Gen 39:8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
Gen 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?
Gen 39:10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, or to be with her.
Gen 39:11 And it came to pass about this time, that Joseph went into the house to do his business; and there was none of the men of the house there within.
Gen 39:12 And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand, and fled, and got him out.
Gen 39:13 And it came to pass, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand, and was fled forth,
Gen 39:14 That she called unto the men of her house, and spake unto them, saying, See, he hath brought in an Hebrew unto us to mock us; he came in unto me to lie with me, and I cried with a loud voice:
Gen 39:15 And it came to pass, when he heard that I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled, and got him out.
Gen 39:16 And she laid up his garment by her, until his lord came home.
Gen 39:17 And she spake unto him according to these words, saying, The Hebrew servant, which thou hast brought unto us, came in unto me to mock me:
Gen 39:18 And it came to pass, as I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled out.
Gen 39:19 And it came to pass, when his master heard the words of his wife, which she spake unto him, saying, After this manner did thy servant to me; that his wrath was kindled.
Gen 39:20 And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.
Gen 39:21 But the LORD was with Joseph, and shewed him mercy, and gave him favour in the sight of the keeper of the prison.
Gen 39:22 And the keeper of the prison committed to Joseph's hand all the prisoners that were in the prison; and whatsoever they did there, he was the doer of it.
Gen 39:23 The keeper of the prison looked not to any thing that was under his hand; because the LORD was with him, and that which he did, the LORD made it to prosper.

3) Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

4) 2Sa 11:2 And it came to pass in an eveningtide, that David arose from off his bed, and walked upon the roof of the king's house: and from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman was very beautiful to look upon.

5) Job 31:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

6) Pro 6:25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is
that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think one of the confusions is what is meant by the statement that we "must use them and follow them". The term "must" implies that something is contingent on us following the Law or walking in obedience.

"Must" I follow the Law to be saved? No.
"Must" I follow the Law to show God that I love Him? No.

I musn't follow the Law for anything. I follow it because it's one of my responses to the grace He's shown me.

And I agree with what you said, there are more important things we should worry about. As Jesus said to the Pharisees

Matthew 23:23
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

to add to my last statement.

Jesus warnings to the pharisees are the same warnings to us. If we go around trying to follow the law to be righteous, we will fail. Because by nature, we will pick parts of the law. and if we do them to what we consider satisfactory performance, we think we are ok. We are righteous, So god must love me and see I love him. The problem is, We ignore the parts we do struggle with, Or excuse them away as not being bad sins. Or miss them altogether, and then. we are not even seeing the clear picture., That sin is more that what the law says it is (as seen in matt 5)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

E-G states that none of the above that is bolded is in the OT. Let's test everything and see if that is true.

1) Gen 34:2 And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her.

2) Gen 39:7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
Gen 39:8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
Gen 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?
Gen 39:10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, or to be with her.
Gen 39:11 And it came to pass about this time, that Joseph went into the house to do his business; and there was none of the men of the house there within.
Gen 39:12 And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand, and fled, and got him out.
Gen 39:13 And it came to pass, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand, and was fled forth,
Gen 39:14 That she called unto the men of her house, and spake unto them, saying, See, he hath brought in an Hebrew unto us to mock us; he came in unto me to lie with me, and I cried with a loud voice:
Gen 39:15 And it came to pass, when he heard that I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled, and got him out.
Gen 39:16 And she laid up his garment by her, until his lord came home.
Gen 39:17 And she spake unto him according to these words, saying, The Hebrew servant, which thou hast brought unto us, came in unto me to mock me:
Gen 39:18 And it came to pass, as I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled out.
Gen 39:19 And it came to pass, when his master heard the words of his wife, which she spake unto him, saying, After this manner did thy servant to me; that his wrath was kindled.
Gen 39:20 And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.
Gen 39:21 But the LORD was with Joseph, and shewed him mercy, and gave him favour in the sight of the keeper of the prison.
Gen 39:22 And the keeper of the prison committed to Joseph's hand all the prisoners that were in the prison; and whatsoever they did there, he was the doer of it.
Gen 39:23 The keeper of the prison looked not to any thing that was under his hand; because the LORD was with him, and that which he did, the LORD made it to prosper.

3) Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

4) 2Sa 11:2 And it came to pass in an eveningtide, that David arose from off his bed, and walked upon the roof of the king's house: and from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman was very beautiful to look upon.

5) Job 31:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

6) Pro 6:25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is
that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
​

yep. lets call Jesus a liar.

The command of old (mosaic law) was do not commit adultry. Jesus said this is not enough. For I tell you NOW....

 

[homwardbound]

i'm confused, what exactly are you trying to tell me, stubborn about what?

Stubborn in trying get your point across, I know you care, just please watch out for the flesh to get in the way in making your point, Flesh is very deceptive and tricky. I think you know this as truth, and no matter what you, I or anyone else posts, we all want to make our points do we not? So please ask God for God's words. not coming back with to others well then you do not know the truth, the flesh tries to et in the way of us all and I love you Brother and am elated you have discovered that it is all God, yet not all have discovere4d this as of yet, and don't you think they get free choice in discovering this as you did.
How do you even know if God has received these others that preach Law and Christ or just Law and or just Christ and no law.
Romans 14 is a great Chapter to let others believe, and trust God to cause me to stand, you to stand and all that God has accepted to stand.
You are a great waterer in God and planter, but it is God that gives the increase, not me, you or anyone else, Love you as deep as God does, for none of us deserve God's Mercy, before or after Salvation, and each of our walks are personal between God and you, me and all others that God has accepted

So all we can ever do is just walk in Love God's type and just post what we now as truth, and read all others post they as well know as truth to them. Sift all through in self where God lives and let God sort it all out, making us wise as serpents, but harmless as doves, I am not coming against nor anyone else, because we all have free will and the right to each of our stories
Do we not, and are we not called to love all?

 

[john832]

so what are you doing then? you claim over and over that we must keep the 10 commandments now your confusing me

Hmmm, how are we justified by breaking them? Perhaps you could enlighten us.

 

[homwardbound]

Which one makes righteous. The law or the cross? Certainly the law could not do it. If it could then why did God become a man and give Himself on the cross as a lamb that we might be saved. Saved from what? the curse of the law and sin.

And the result after belief is walk in Love led by the Spirit of God, maybe you decide if not already, which I think you are

 

[homwardbound]

I'm not Jewish, so probably "gentile".

And Jesus told His followers, whether Jew or Gentile, to follow the Law.

And because Paul's words must line up with Jesus' words, all of those verses from Paul must be referring to something else, because surely Paul wouldn't disagree with Jesus.

Now would this not be the Laws of Love and then see the love of God through Son, then be born again in the Spirit and do the Laws of love, in place of trying that never accomplishes, hymm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder does anyone else?

 

[homwardbound]

Matthew 5:1-20

5 When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. 2 He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Disciples and the World

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15 nor doesanyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, notthe smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches othersto do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Good post, now after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, includes ascension for the sending of The holy Ghost to us to .live in us to teach and tell us that all those are filled in the resurrected Christ. Is that possibly true?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Actually, e-g. I've never implied that. I know most of you do. I was refuting Rose's claim that I did when she said this...

But you haven't refuted anything. You (like all of the others) simply refuse to answer. That's because it presents an impossible dilemma to the law-cultist mind. Either they have to admit that the law is not binding on believers, or they have to admit that Paul wasn't speaking for Christ. They are afraid to openly admit either, so instead of being forthright and honest, they simply refuse to answer in a simple straightforward manner.

Only the devil is afraid of coming to the light.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

yep. lets call Jesus a liar.

The command of old (mosaic law) was do not commit adultry. Jesus said this is not enough. For I tell you NOW....

Calm down now. No one is calling Jesus a liar, but you are taking great offense to your personal interpretation being perceived as being challenged.

Those old testament scriptures are examples of lust and coveting which begins in the eyes and heart. The Pharisees were challenging Jesus at many points on OT scriptures and they thought they were so righteous. Jesus, as His disciples Rabbi/Master, taught them the spirit of the law, which the Pharisees were more concerned with the letter of the law.

And continuing on the theme of "Looking" and committing a sin of adultery, Jesus also made this command:

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Was this also a departure from Old Testament commands? Or is it a new command to be done literally?

 

[homwardbound]

So how do you interpret Jesus words in Matthew 5?

For me, it was Christ telling what was coming to be after the cross. the resurrection. we have a before under law that no man in the flesh could fill and do perfectly, as shown well to disciples especially who asked how is it possible to go to heaven after seeing that rich man walk away sad. Matt 19 and Christ told them with man it is impossible. but with God all things are possible
there is a before and after the cross, yet it is not to make void the Law. Rather to uphold it Romans 8:31
The problem is flesh against the Spirit of God, which is here as is all over the world

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Calm down now. No one is calling Jesus a liar, but you are taking great offense to your personal interpretation being perceived as being challenged.

You just did call Jesus a liar.

he claimed what came from the law of Old. And what he was trying to show was NOT according to the law of old.

 

[john832]

yep. lets call Jesus a liar.

The command of old (mosaic law) was do not commit adultry. Jesus said this is not enough. For I tell you NOW....

Tell me how this does away with the seventh Commandment?

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Show me where this passage cancels...

Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

And of course this...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So, if there is more added to the Commandment, it simply fulfills exactly what Christ said He came to do...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.