My journey with having an evil spirit cast out of me

[Angela53510]

I enjoyed reading both testimonies, although not the ending of Cycel's. (No offense- I prefer a Christian ending to an atheist one!)

I also can relate to the Santa Claus story. My husband is a very strong Christian, and he said we were never going to tell our children Santa was real. One winter, my youngest son was 3 years old. My husband sat him down, and very seriously told him Santa Claus wasn't real, but Jesus was. So celebrating Christmas was about Jesus, not about a fictional man who brings toys. He even told him we give the toys, and no one comes down the chimney on Christmas night.

It was hard on me to see a small child so brutally confronted with the truth. I like fantasy and imagination, and Christmas had always been a wonderful time for me. Later that same day, I took my young son to the mall to get some pictures taken. As we arrived, a helicopter was overhead. My son liked helicopters, so we stopped to watch it land in the parking lot (Quite a surprise for both of us!). What a shock to see that the person who got out was Santa Claus! He walked into the mall to begin doing his thing of hearing Christmas wish lists.

My son was stunned for a while, then he turned to me and said, "Well, Dad sure was wrong, wasn't he?"

I relate this to show you that even if your parents had tried to tell you Santa wasn't real, you might have experienced something that showed the opposite. My naive son had proof of Santa. Yet, strangely, it never affected his faith in Jesus. We never pretended Santa was real. But Jesus was always real in our home. Maybe that was the difference between my family and yours?

My other comment would be on the United Church. I attended Baptist Sunday School from grades 1 to 3. I learned countless Bible verses, which I remember to this day. I learned who Jesus was. I committed my life to Christ. Then we moved to a new community. The only church was a United Church. I went there for 2 years. We never took a Bible, we never learned a Bible verse, and never learned about who Jesus was. I would not discount being raised in the United Church as being part of your issue. True, the JW influence was strong, but in my experience as a chaplain, and growing up Protestant in Canada, is that the United Church in Canada has been one of the biggest hindrances to the gospel in the country. I am not exaggerating.

When you do not preach the truth of God's Word and present Christ, but turn to the social gospel and church becomes a time for being with friends rather than worshipping God, you lose the presence and the power of God. I know so many people in the United church, including many high school friends. When the church got really liberal, most of the Bible believing Christians left. In fact, my high school friends and I meet for reunions. I mentioned about the United Church having a lot of infighting about doctrine. They replied "No, not since all the bible thumpers left." And they still attend there.

A church without God, formed on totally conflicting doctrines about salvation (Presbyterians - Calvinist; Methodists - Arminian), is a church that is all about compromise, and the only compromise possible became not believing anything.

I am sorry if it offends any Canadians from the United Church who might be here, but I think the United Church, which used to be the largest Protestant denomination in Canada, is the single source of Canada's (at least in the west) apostasy. Hard words, I know. I recently read an article that attributed Canada's Christian decline to Expo 67 and Pierre Trudeau's policies of tolerance and multi-culturalism. That brief period in Canadian history might have had some influence, but I think more than that was the adoption of his attitude that God was not real by the United Church. And as to what happened in Quebec, I have no idea!

So, my personal theory, which you might examine, is the influence the United Church had in leading your to atheism. As for me, I got into the Pentecostal movement after I was first saved, where I saw a lot of things that didn't sit right with me. I eventually moved back to my Baptist roots, and found a church that works for me. I think there are many good denominations, and many believers in all churches, and those who do not attend church who are sincere believers in Jesus Christ.

I also want to comment on your epiphany regarding the medieval church. I studied geography for my undergrad degree, and I had a social geography prof who was really into the meaning of the medieval architecture, especially the churches. I did several research papers on Gothic architecture and neo- Gothic revival, including a presentation on the downtown Vancouver Catholic Cathedral, which was near where I lived. I had many discussions with my prof about the purpose of those buildings. I vehemently expressed my heart felt belief that faith in Christ had nothing to do with architecture. He argued that with a mostly illiterate population, the high, sweeping lines of the buildings, the stories expressed in stained glass, the a cappella music of the monks chanting Gregorian chants were all those people knew. For them, the church did express the grandeur of God, and it dominated the landscape in a way that nothing else did in those years in the 9th to 12th centuries in Europe.

So although those buildings do not mean the same thing as they do now, the fact is, a vital Christianity has survived over 2000 years. There is no myth, like Zeus or Baal or any god the people invented. Jesus Christ is alive and real. He did not die in those cathedrals, and he was not a myth to the people of that day.

Instead, we find a faith that is growing in leaps and bounds in countries like atheistic China and North Korea, in spite of intense persecution by the authorities. I have a friend who I went to Seminary with, who was a member of the Communist party in China for many years. When he came to Canada to work on his master and Ph.D in engineering, he met Jesus Christ. He left university, and came to Seminary to prepare for working with Chinese Mandarin speaking youth. We won't even touch on the persecution of the church in Muslim countries that is vicious right now, nor in Hindu India, which continues its crusade against Christian believers.

So you consigned Jesus to the archeological ruins of time, when in fact, he has been alive and the church has been thriving all the time. As for the "physical" sensation your epiphany included, I find it most interesting your testimony comes on a thread to do with being freed from demon possession. I am not a great believer in blaming the devil for many things, but when it comes to

slamming like a physical object into my consciousness that must have created the physical sensation in my body."

I sincerely have to wonder if some kind of demonic manifestation at a crucial time took place which pushed you into a state of NOT believing in the living God. You must remember, there is a power of evil, although he is puny compared to Jesus Christ.

I know I was confronted with a demon a long time ago - I was about 13 at the time. I was not going to church or involved in any way with God at that time. I did rebuke it, in my own way, but my life and beliefs took a huge wrong turn after that.
As Ricky carries on as his signature:

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places.

Eph. 6:12 KJV"

So another long post!! I hope you will not think I am attacking you after your sincere testimony about your conclusions about God. But I just see some gaping holes, and I think you are in our forum for a reason.

As for my testimony of going from Baptist Sunday school and reading the Bible on my own, to atheism, agnosticism, New Age movement and then born again Christian, well that will have to wait for another day.

 

[Cycel]

So another long post!! I hope you will not think I am attacking you after your sincere testimony about your conclusions about God. But I just see some gaping holes, and I think you are in our forum for a reason.

Angela, thank you. I very much enjoyed your post and there are a number of things that I think you may be right about. It is too late this evening, but I will get back to you, hopefully tomorrow.

 

[Brighthouse]

Brother Megaman We must have went to the same school as children!! LOL Apart from a few odds and ends, the idea of being touched is a ditto to my own life!! i am so very glad for you brother!! And your testimony takes me back to remember some of the very same things you talked about!!

You know brother I thought i was the only one who felt that way,before Jesus myself!! LOL It is nice to see a confirmation that still others have gone through much the same! i know when Jesus touched me as he did you, I was never the same again either!!So thanks so very much for sharing!! it brought back a lot of good and not so good memories in my own life,but so very rewarding after Jesus!

You see brother, we not only believe now,but we also know why we believe as well! Money cannot buy that! Psalm 27:13 says i would have despaired unless I had believed I would have seen the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living!! We sure understand this bro!! God bless you!

 

[Cycel]

I also can relate to the Santa Claus story. My husband is a very strong Christian, and he said we were never going to tell our children Santa was real. One winter, my youngest son was 3 years old. My husband sat him down, and very seriously told him Santa Claus wasn't real, but Jesus was. So celebrating Christmas was about Jesus, not about a fictional man who brings toys. He even told him we give the toys, and no one comes down the chimney on Christmas night.

I didn't want to take the pleasure of believing in Santa away from my kids, but wanted them at the same time to avoid my experience. The compromise was to have gifts coming from us, but the main gift coming from Santa. I'd have to ask my grown children how they would handle it with their own children. I think they thought the compromise took too much away from the experience.

It was hard on me to see a small child so brutally confronted with the truth. I like fantasy and imagination, and Christmas had always been a wonderful time for me. Later that same day, I took my young son to the mall to get some pictures taken. As we arrived, a helicopter was overhead. My son liked helicopters, so we stopped to watch it land in the parking lot (Quite a surprise for both of us!). What a shock to see that the person who got out was Santa Claus! My son was stunned for a while, then he turned to me and said, "Well, Dad sure was wrong, wasn't he?"

I am curious. What does your son think now? How would he handle Christmas with his own children should he have them?

My naive son had proof of Santa.

I remember seeing rabbit tracks Easter morning, in a rare dusting of snow, and thinking I had proof of the Easter bunny.

Yet, strangely, it never affected his faith in Jesus. We never pretended Santa was real. But Jesus was always real in our home. Maybe that was the difference between my family and yours?

Perhaps that was part of it. Mine was a fairly secular household. But my first doubts were not about Jesus, they were about God. Remember, I did not identify Jesus as God. It was never Jesus I questioned.

My other comment would be on the United Church.... We never took a Bible, we never learned a Bible verse, and never learned about who Jesus was. I would not discount being raised in the United Church as being part of your issue. True, the JW influence was strong, but in my experience as a chaplain, and growing up Protestant in Canada, is that the United Church in Canada has been one of the biggest hindrances to the gospel in the country. I am not exaggerating.

You may be right. Truthfully I remember little of my church experience. I never attended after about age twelve.

When you do not preach the truth of God's Word and present Christ, but turn to the social gospel and church becomes a time for being with friends rather than worshipping God, you lose the presence and the power of God.

I don’t know. Maybe that was something I didn’t like. I feel awkward in social situations and will go to lengths to avoid them. I never attend staff parties or reunions. I generally prefer to have the lunchroom to myself.

I know so many people in the United church, including many high school friends. When the church got really liberal, most of the Bible believing Christians left. In fact, my high school friends and I meet for reunions. I mentioned about the United Church having a lot of infighting about doctrine. They replied "No, not since all the bible thumpers left."

This gave me a chuckle. I generally see the Bible thumpers as overly zealous for the Law and uncompromising in their moral rigidity, if not in their observance.

A church without God, formed on totally conflicting doctrines about salvation (Presbyterians - Calvinist; Methodists - Arminian), is a church that is all about compromise, and the only compromise possible became not believing anything.

Not in anything? I think that is probably a big oversimplification.

I am sorry if it offends any Canadians from the United Church who might be here, but I think the United Church, which used to be the largest Protestant denomination in Canada, is the single source of Canada's (at least in the west) apostasy. Hard words, I know. I recently read an article that attributed Canada's Christian decline to Expo 67 and Pierre Trudeau's policies of tolerance and multi-culturalism.

What about the decline of religion in the remainder of the Western world? How did his policies contribute to that? No, I think you have to look elsewhere. Canadian trends mirrored the shift that was happening everywhere.

That brief period in Canadian history might have had some influence, but I think more than that was the adoption of his attitude that God was not real by the United Church.

Trudeau was Catholic. I don’t know why you think he had anything to do with United Church policy? What’s your source claiming Trudeau did not believe in God?

I have a cousin with his MDiv. He’s now retired, but his wife still ministers with the United Church. He was part of the whole Death of God movement. I can assure you it had nothing to do with Pierre Trudeau. Also, despite how it sounds, these people were not atheists.

And as to what happened in Quebec, I have no idea!

The Quiet Revolution it’s called. Trudeau may have leant his intellect to it, but he did not cause it, nor did he lead it. Church attendance in England and Europe were plummeting at the same time. Secularism swept the West, in the aftermath of the Second World War, and if the United Church was caught in the flow it was only as a branch swept along in the current. What puzzles me is why the United States didn’t get caught up with it as well; but then they didn’t adopt metric either. Always the odd kid out.

So, my personal theory, which you might examine, is the influence the United Church had in leading your to atheism.

I wrote my religious autobiography back in my thirties and called it From Faith to Reason. What struck me was the difficulty I had putting all the pieces together. Instead of a neat path I found a convoluted journey. To be honest with you, though my mother said I attended till I was about twelve, for all I remember I might only have gone three times, for I have four memories and two of them are from the first day.

As for me, I got into the Pentecostal movement after I was first saved, where I saw a lot of things that didn't sit right with me.

Speaking in tongues? That would be one, yes?

I also want to comment on your epiphany regarding the medieval church. I studied geography for my undergrad degree, and I had a social geography prof who was really into the meaning of the medieval architecture, especially the churches. I did several research papers on Gothic architecture and neo- Gothic revival, including a presentation on the downtown Vancouver Catholic Cathedral, which was near where I lived. I had many discussions with my prof about the purpose of those buildings. I vehemently expressed my heart felt belief that faith in Christ had nothing to do with architecture. He argued that with a mostly illiterate population, the high, sweeping lines of the buildings, the stories expressed in stained glass, the a cappella music of the monks chanting Gregorian chants were all those people knew. For them, the church did express the grandeur of God, and it dominated the landscape in a way that nothing else did in those years in the 9th to 12th centuries in Europe.

Your prof’s view would be mine as well.

So although those buildings do not mean the same thing as they do now, the fact is, a vital Christianity has survived over 2000 years. There is no myth, like Zeus or Baal or any god the people invented. Jesus Christ is alive and real. He did not die in those cathedrals, and he was not a myth to the people of that day.

But neither were Zeus or Baal considered myths by their worshippers. They were thought to be real, as real as God is to Christians today. It is we who have labelled them as myths; and this is not to ignore that there are mythical components to the religions of antiquity, but I would argue that Genesis has its myths as well: the two creation stories, Noah’s flood, and the Tower of Babel are three good examples. Yet, the believers of these stories take them literally, just as the ancients took theirs literally. I am wondering if when you say the United Church doesn’t believe in God you mean in part that they don’t accept these accounts a true?

In my youth the United Church taught me these events were historical (I either learned this from church or from school, I certainly didn’t learn it from home; not that I recall). It was this insistence in the literal view that caused me to reject the entire edifice. I thought if the Bible could be wrong about all this, then likely there was no God at all. I really think it was because I tied the necessity of Genesis being factual to God’s existence that it all collapsed. I’m thinking that if I had been given a liberal Christian upbringing I might still believe.

The failure of the United Church might have been in not providing me with a more, believable, liberal alternative.

I am going to have to stop here for the night. Tis’ bed time.

 

[Cycel]

Instead, we find a faith that is growing in leaps and bounds in countries like atheistic China and North Korea, in spite of intense persecution by the authorities.

Which makes me wonder if part of the success is a result of people searching for a way to protest tyrannical governments.

So you consigned Jesus to the archeological ruins of time, when in fact, he has been alive and the church has been thriving all the time.

It was not Jesus I consigned, but God. In my consciousness, which is all that counts for me, belief had passed into oblivion. It doesn't matter what others think. Millions believe in Allah, but their devotion is meaningless for you and I.

As for the "physical" sensation your epiphany included, I find it most interesting your testimony comes on a thread to do with being freed from demon possession. I am not a great believer in blaming the devil for many things, but when it comes to

"slamming like a physical object into my consciousness that must have created the physical sensation in my body."

I sincerely have to wonder if some kind of demonic manifestation at a crucial time took place which pushed you into a state of NOT believing in the living God.

First of all I already did not believe. I was an atheist when I stopped to watch the program with my parents. That wasn't the revelation. What happened is that as I listened to the narrator describe the significance of the medieval cathedral in relation to God, it suddenly dawned on me that I'd thought of God in the same context that I would have applied to the classical gods. It was that realization that in a flash impacted me. In the past there was God on one side, who I did not believe in, and the classical deities I did not believe in on the other side. For the first time I had unconsciously lumped God with the other non-existent deities. No longer was there a distinction between them. It was not that the change had taken place in that moment, but rather in a flash of insight I realized the ground had shifted. My conscious mind had become aware of my subconscious understanding. The shift in thinking had likely occurred days, weeks, or months before; but until that moment I was not aware of it. The epiphany was the sudden realization that a paradigm shift taken place. It was momentous. In a sense I had become a born-again atheist.

You must remember, there is a power of evil, although he is puny compared to Jesus Christ.

But you must understand this type of reasoning sounds totally implausible to me. It sounds irrational. No offence intended Angela, truly none is intended, but I simply can't believe this.

I know I was confronted with a demon a long time ago - I was about 13 at the time. I was not going to church or involved in any way with God at that time. I did rebuke it, in my own way, but my life and beliefs took a huge wrong turn after that.
As Ricky carries on as his signature:

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places.

Eph. 6:12 KJV"

Demons bear no reality for me, but I am very interested in hearing such experiences. I have a different take on it. I will have to explain later.

So another long post!! I hope you will not think I am attacking you after your sincere testimony about your conclusions about God. But I just see some gaping holes, and I think you are in our forum for a reason.

Bear in mind that my religious autobiography is about 15 to 20 pages in length. It might plug some of those hole.

Years ago, when I first began visiting forums, I had a very thin skin. It's toughened considerably since. I will not take offense at anything you say. You have you're views and I am happy to listen.

Live long and prosper!

 

[megaman125]

But neither were Zeus or Baal considered myths by their worshippers. They were thought to be real, as real as God is to Christians today. It is we who have labelled them as myths; and this is not to ignore that there are mythical components to the religions of antiquity, but I would argue that Genesis has its myths as well: the two creation stories, Noah’s flood, and the Tower of Babel are three good examples. Yet, the believers of these stories take them literally, just as the ancients took theirs literally. I am wondering if when you say the United Church doesn’t believe in God you mean in part that they don’t accept these accounts a true?

Just one thing that bugs me here is the whole notion of "two creation stories." There aren't 2 creation stories. It's one, consistent account. (albeit, not entirely chronological, although, Genesis 2 doesn't claim chronology. Heck, the Bible isn't all chronological, unless you think Jesus was born and died on a cross 4 times.)

In my youth the United Church taught me these events were historical (I either learned this from church or from school, I certainly didn’t learn it from home; not that I recall). It was this insistence in the literal view that caused me to reject the entire edifice. I thought if the Bible could be wrong about all this, then likely there was no God at all. I really think it was because I tied the necessity of Genesis being factual to God’s existence that it all collapsed. I’m thinking that if I had been given a liberal Christian upbringing I might still believe.

I'm going to say I highly doubt that. If you were able to "undo all the indoctrination of fear of hell and belief in God's existence," then there's no reason you couldn't have already changed your view about Genesis to some other view and still believe in God in the time it took you to transition into atheism instead. On top of that, your testimony had very little to do with the wording or interpretation of Genesis.

The failure of the United Church might have been in not providing me with a more, believable, liberal alternative.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather believe the truth than something that's "easy" to believe and nice sounding on the ears. For instance, the core message of Christianity is that we're all sinners who don't deserve God's grace, but yet we can get God's grace and forgiveness anyways by humbling ourselves and repenting. Many people hate this idea and would rather hear something that's easier for them, like a message saying that you don't have to worry and everything is good, just keep sinning and pretend it's not an issue. It's pretty clear which message is easier to digest, but that doesn't make it true. The same thing happened with a lot of the prophets in the OT. The prophets would warn about God's coming judgment on their nation and the need to repent, and false prophets said that everything was good and they didn't need to worry about being conquered. Which message does the flesh like to hear the most? Yeah. But guess what, they didn't heed the prophets warning to repent, and got conquered by the Bablyonians, just as the prophets said. The false prophets were wrong, but people didn't listen to the truth, they listened for something easy for them to hear.

 

[Marc]

Beautiful testimony megaman.
Glory to God!

 

[TheAristocat]

It was the force of the epiphany itself slamming like a physical object into my consciousness that must have created the physical sensation in my body. The realization was jarring, to be sure, but had anyone been watching me in that moment they may not have noticed a thing. After that I stopped worrying about being wrong and began thinking of myself as a born again atheist.

I once knew a man who had a similar experience. And he was agnostic. He gave up whatever faith he had because of his mother's passing. And when he realized how easy it was to do (paraphrasing) it just reinforced the idea in his mind.

There was one point in my life when I had an agnostic experience, meaning that I didn't know what to believe - whether there was a God or not. Certainly Hell entered my mind, but I didn't think it a convincing enough reason to place a bias on my search for the truth. If it never existed then it never existed. Undoubtedly the discovery of one's beliefs is a journey rather than any single decision. But I think one of the things that keeps me on the road I'm traveling is the idea of how the universe came about. It didn't exist. And then it did. What got the ball rolling? We can keep going back to the beginning of the whole process, trying to answer that question. But the real issue might be: how did this thoughtless, natural, inert process make the decision to create if it had no thoughts? But if it were capable of making decisions (i.e. moving beyond the inert into the productive), then it had sentience. And it now officially becomes God.

 

[Fubario]

Hey I struggle with this too, its more of a dark spirit that is characteristic of my old sinful ways and its trying to manifest itself and its causing me much distress, except it hasn't been cast out at all.

 

[Bryancampbell]

That's some testimony, you should post a next one about you giving your life to Christ if you wish.

 

[megaman125]

That's some testimony, you should post a next one about you giving your life to Christ if you wish.

Yeah, my baptism story, which happend just a few weeks after all this. That was another adventure, not one I have the time to go into huge detail right now, but I can give you the punchline. My baptism ended up in a hot tub and the part of the deck myself and the minister were standing on collapsed underneith us (but not the other 20 people standing on the deck, just the part we were standing on).

 

[chatter23]

We wrestle not against flesh and blood - but the powers and principalities we do war against can most definately affect the flesh and blood. I am glad you are rid of this one but remember, he will be back - and with buddies - to see if the house has been put in order and not left vacant. What was the baptism adventure?

Not necessarily. Permanent changes were made and they cannot be doubted for one moment. Just having resentment and hate gone is a blessing from God. It will not be back.

 

[chatter23]

That's some testimony, you should post a next one about you giving your life to Christ if you wish.

He already has.

 

[megaman125]

Not necessarily. Permanent changes were made and they cannot be doubted for one moment. Just having resentment and hate gone is a blessing from God. It will not be back.

Yeah, it's been over 3 years now. If the evil spirit has attempted to come back, it completely failed.