can anyone interpret matthew 24 vs 30 and 31

[eternally-gratefull]

The entirety of the events described in Revelation 6:12-17 occur after the Great Tribulation; however, they overlap the trumpet events - as well as the "time of God's wrath" and the "time of Jacob's trouble" - which are two separate things - they are not the same thing. However, the "time of Jacob's trouble" ( Armageddon ) occurs within the time frame of the "time of God's wrath"...

Again, Where do you get this?

The time of Jacobs trouble, and the great tribulation are two events which both state are worste then the world has ever seen..

God uses the whole of the tribulation to turn Jacob back to him, starting with the 14400

The trumpet events occur before the return of Christ. The vials ( 'Wrath of God' ) occur after the return of Christ. ( It is Jesus Himself who "dishes [ ALL of ] it out"... )

The wrath of God is the WHOLE of the tribulation.

The wrath of God was poured out on the Northern kindgom by using Syria to destroy them. The wrath of God was taken out on the southern kingdom by using babylon to destroy them. The wrath of God used the roman army to destroy the city and temple in 70 AD. Many times God uses people to spread his wrath. The tribulation as a whole is the wrath of God. In some instances, he uses these evil rulers. Armies, Natural disasters etc etc.

All these seals, trumpets and vials are called judgments by God. they ALl are a part of his wrath.

Again, A time of tribulation such as never has been seen. As jesus said, if he did not return. All life would die. Why> the tribulation is GREAT. The warefare and poison done by man in those years would wipe out all life.

Are you referring to this? :


This has not happened yet. It occurs after - not during - the Great Tribulation.

Nah, It happens during the great tribulation. Which is the time of Gods wrath, Also called the time of Jacobs trouble.

 

[GRA]

Again, Where do you get this?

The time of Jacobs trouble, and the great tribulation are two events which both state are worste then the world has ever seen..

God uses the whole of the tribulation to turn Jacob back to him, starting with the 14400



The wrath of God is the WHOLE of the tribulation.

The wrath of God was poured out on the Northern kindgom by using Syria to destroy them. The wrath of God was taken out on the southern kingdom by using babylon to destroy them. The wrath of God used the roman army to destroy the city and temple in 70 AD. Many times God uses people to spread his wrath. The tribulation as a whole is the wrath of God. In some instances, he uses these evil rulers. Armies, Natural disasters etc etc.

All these seals, trumpets and vials are called judgments by God. they ALl are a part of his wrath.

Again, A time of tribulation such as never has been seen. As jesus said, if he did not return. All life would die. Why> the tribulation is GREAT. The warefare and poison done by man in those years would wipe out all life.



Nah, It happens during the great tribulation. Which is the time of Gods wrath, Also called the time of Jacobs trouble.

In the context of the End Times Scenario, the phrase 'Wrath of God' describes an 'event' in the End Times Scenario -- just like the phrases 'Great Tribulation' and 'Trumpet Events' - and is defined very particularly and specifically in Revelation 16.

Exactly this:

'Wrath of God' => "seven vials" => Revelation 16

No more and no less.

As events in the End Times Scenario, there is no overlap of any of these:

( And, they occur in this order. )

~ Great Tribulation
~ Trumpet Events
~ Wrath of God

( The seals overlap all three. )

'Judgment' and 'Wrath' are two different things. While the seals, trumpets, and vials are all "judgments" - only the vials are "wrath"...

In terms of identification, the following are completely separate:

~ Great Tribulation
~ Wrath of God
~ Jacob's Trouble

No two of these are "the same thing"...

EDIT: Please see the 'Reminder' list quoted in post #125.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In the context of the End Times Scenario, the phrase 'Wrath of God' describes an 'event' in the End Times Scenario -- just like the phrases 'Great Tribulation' and 'Trumpet Events' - and is defined very particularly and specifically in Revelation 16.

Exactly this:

'Wrath of God' => "seven vials" => Revelation 16

No more and no less.

As events in the End Times Scenario, there is no overlap of any of these:

( And, they occur in this order. )

~ Great Tribulation
~ Trumpet Events
~ Wrath of God

( The seals overlap all three. )

'Judgment' and 'Wrath' are two different things. While the seals, trumpets, and vials are all "judgments" - only the vials are "wrath"...

In terms of identification, the following are completely separate:

~ Great Tribulation
~ Wrath of God
~ Jacob's Trouble

No two of these are "the same thing"...

EDIT: Please see the 'Reminder' list quoted in post #125.

Well thanks for your opinion. But I would rather listen to Gods word.

Also. One does not know the sequence of those events.

Most likely they ALL occure at the same time (since they ALL end with the return of Christ)

Also. Read them. the 6 seals. All horendous events. ALL done by the act of God himself. who opens the seals., to bring about Gods wrath on the earth.

All of the events are part of Gods wrath, Who has to this day been patient, Wishing that none should perish.. That is why he is waiting

Yet one day, He will pour his wrath on the earth, This is what the book of revelation and the events which happen are about.
We will have to agree to disagree.. I see no evidence of what your claiming, Only speculation.

 

[GRA]

Well thanks for your opinion. But I would rather listen to Gods word.

Also. One does not know the sequence of those events.

Most likely they ALL occure at the same time (since they ALL end with the return of Christ)

Also. Read them. the 6 seals. All horendous events. ALL done by the act of God himself. who opens the seals., to bring about Gods wrath on the earth.

All of the events are part of Gods wrath, Who has to this day been patient, Wishing that none should perish.. That is why he is waiting

Yet one day, He will pour his wrath on the earth, This is what the book of revelation and the events which happen are about.
We will have to agree to disagree.. I see no evidence of what your claiming, Only speculation.

"Don't worry about it --- some time between now and Judgment Day, you will understand..."

( "Although, sooner would be better than later..." )

Again -- I invite you to take a look at the 'Reminder' list quoted in post #125 -- as well as the charts in my 'study' threads. ( See my signature. )

 

[PlainWord]

In the context of the End Times Scenario, the phrase 'Wrath of God' describes an 'event' in the End Times Scenario -- just like the phrases 'Great Tribulation' and 'Trumpet Events' - and is defined very particularly and specifically in Revelation 16.

Exactly this:

'Wrath of God' => "seven vials" => Revelation 16

No more and no less.

As events in the End Times Scenario, there is no overlap of any of these:

( And, they occur in this order. )

~ Great Tribulation
~ Trumpet Events
~ Wrath of God

( The seals overlap all three. )

'Judgment' and 'Wrath' are two different things. While the seals, trumpets, and vials are all "judgments" - only the vials are "wrath"...

In terms of identification, the following are completely separate:

~ Great Tribulation
~ Wrath of God
~ Jacob's Trouble

No two of these are "the same thing"...

EDIT: Please see the 'Reminder' list quoted in post #125.

This is pretty spot on!!! The only correction I would make is the Great Tribulation is Trumpets 5 & 6.

 

[PlainWord]

The wrath of God are Bowls 1-6. The wrath of the Lamb is Seal 7, Trumpet 7 and Bowl 7. Basically the Lord completes each of these with His return. The spoken Word from the Lamb's mouth will slay many of His enemies.

His Elect, those martyred from the Tribulation and those alive and remaining will be gathered when the Lord returns and changed into spiritual bodies. These translated "solders" are the ones who will liberate Jerusalem and do battle against the forces of Satan at Armageddon. This is pretty clear from Joel 2, Rev 20, Zech 14, Dan 12 and other places.

 

[chatter23]

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

And all I want to know is "when is dinner ready.? LOL

 

[GRA]

This is pretty spot on!!! The only correction I would make is the Great Tribulation is Trumpets 5 & 6.

So --- you are saying that the two witnesses arrive on the scene BEFORE the Abomination of Desolation ... ???

 

[Isdaniel]

The wrath of God are Bowls 1-6. The wrath of the Lamb is Seal 7, Trumpet 7 and Bowl 7. Basically the Lord completes each of these with His return. The spoken Word from the Lamb's mouth will slay many of His enemies.

His Elect, those martyred from the Tribulation and those alive and remaining will be gathered when the Lord returns and changed into spiritual bodies. These translated "solders" are the ones who will liberate Jerusalem and do battle against the forces of Satan at Armageddon. This is pretty clear from Joel 2, Rev 20, Zech 14, Dan 12 and other places.

[h=3]Isaiah 63[/h]King James Version (KJV)

63 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

 

[PlainWord]

So --- you are saying that the two witnesses arrive on the scene BEFORE the Abomination of Desolation ... ???

Yes, but not by much. I'm not 100% on the timing of the witnesses but we have some good clues. As we see from Rev 11:14, the 2nd Woe apparently ends with the ascension of the 2 witnesses. The 3rd woe appears to be the return of Christ and His wrath at the 7th trump. The first woe is the 5th trumpet so it appears the witnesses are killed as part of the 6th trumpet where the 1/3 of the world is also killed. It does appear that the Lord returns shortly after the 2 witnesses return to heaven. The 3-1/2 days that they are dead is very compelling to this point.

We know the witnesses work 1,260 days. We know the Gentiles trod the Holy City underfoot for 42 months. I believe this is the same 42 months which start with the Abomination. Days are solar and they represent Light or God where months are lunar and they represent Satan. A lunar month is 29.53 solar days so this translates to about 1,240 days for the Abomination. So if my math is right, the witnesses would appear about 3 weeks before the Abomination is seen. But don't hold me to this as it is just my best guess and I'm open to other interpretations.

 

[homwardbound]

And all I want to know is "when is dinner ready.? LOL

Just sit right here and I will tell you the tale of a fateful trip, The devil and flesh that is born with evil desires to do, is out to steal
John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Just go and sit on the sidelines, rejoicing in the finished work of Christ for you, receiving the food from Heaven and be nourished to health from above.
Dinner is served

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Don't worry about it --- some time between now and Judgment Day, you will understand..."

( "Although, sooner would be better than later..." )

Again -- I invite you to take a look at the 'Reminder' list quoted in post #125 -- as well as the charts in my 'study' threads. ( See my signature. )

yeah we will. and no matter who is right. I am sure either of us would humbly admit our err.

i have read your charts. and found major disagreements with them.

 

[PlainWord]

Isaiah 63

King James Version (KJV)

63 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Check out Isaiah 65 and compare to the Great Multitude of Rev 7.

 

[GRA]

Just sit right here and I will tell you the tale of a fateful trip, The devil and flesh that is born with evil desires to do, is out to steal
John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Just go and sit on the sidelines, rejoicing in the finished work of Christ for you, receiving the food from Heaven and be nourished to health from above.
Dinner is served

Gilligan's Island meets The Devil Went Down To Georgia...

"That ought to be an interesting dinner show..."

 

[homwardbound]

Gilligan's Island meets The Devil Went Down To Georgia...

"That ought to be an interesting dinner show..."

absolutely, that made me laugh, and laughter is good for the Soul, Thanks for that

 

[DiscipleDave]

careful are we about to have another flesh fight, I am right you are wrong, when Father God is the only one right, and our interpretations are not always, hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love you both and all.
maybe agree to disagree, because God who has received the believer is the one that causes his children to stand and no one else.
Thanks

i am a mere human, i can be wrong, i can be persuaded by satan, i can make mistakes, i can have false beliefs, However what He told me is True, What i teach is from Him. He is the Truth, not me, nor what comes from my own thinking. What i teach is what He has told me, showed me, or revealed to me, or what His Angels have told me or revealed to me. What i teach is not from me, who is fallible and could be very wrong, what i teach, and have given Him the credit for, is the Truth. Those who do not believe what i teach, do not believe me, but do not believe Him who told me these things. Those who have the Spirit of Truth in them (which are given to them who OBEY Jesus Acts 5:32) will KNOW the Truth when they hear it. If they hear it not, it is because the Truth is not in them. i am like one who is told by a a shining angel the that building is going to fall next week. And i then go into that building and tell everyone that will hear me, the building will fall next week. Many people in that building will say, "well that is what you believe and it is not True" i then tell them that is not what i believe, that is what an Angel of God told me. Is it then my fault if those in the building believe not the words of the Angel of God because i repeated what the Angel said to me? What i teach is from God, if you do not believe me, you do not believe God who told me these things.

^i^

 

[GRA]

Gilligan's Island meets The Devil Went Down To Georgia...

"That ought to be an interesting dinner show..."

absolutely, that made me laugh, and laughter is good for the Soul, Thanks for that

"We are telling our age..."

I guess you have to be old enough to understand that one...

You are very welcome.

 

[DiscipleDave]

I already pointed out where you contradict the scriptures back in post #105. There is no Rapture before the Lord returns for Armageddon when He gathers us together, those who are alive and remaining from the Tribulation along with the martyred saints from the Tribulation which He brings with Him.

Where have i said differently. When the Lord Returns is when the Rapture will occur, that is Scriptural. The Lord Returns during the middle of the Tribulation period as also says Scriptures ie After the Tribulation of those days shall the son of man come in the clouds. Many Saints (believers) are indeed martyred during the Tribulation period, namely the first 3 1/2 years of it, when there will be a famine of the word according to Amos.

Invoking an earlier return where the whole church is raptured off to heaven is not interpreting, it is manufacturing. There is no need to continue debating you on this issue.

you must have me confused with another poster. i never taught nor ever said there is an earlier return where the whole church is raptured up to Heaven, this is a false doctrine and is not the Truth. Why then are you saying that i have said such a thing? It only makes since if you are confusing me with another poster who has said such nonsense.

You have been shown the truth and still don't see it so at this point it is best to leave you alone.

Strange thing to say. i am thankful Jesus nor any of His Disciples ever thought this and just gave up trying to convince people of the Truth. i believe the statement "Let us agree to disagree" is the very opposite of unity, but is division. and division is not of God but of satan. It is written several times in the Word to be of one mind. But if we agree to disagree, how are we then one mind, we are divided. There is only one Truth, that Truth is given to people by the Spirit of Truth. Many think they know the Truth based on their own intelligence, their own interpretations, their own studies. But it is the Holy Spirit of God that reveals Truth. Truth does not come by self, it comes by the Holy Ghost, which is given to those who OBEY Jesus, namely Love one another. Those who do not love one another, will hardly come to the Truth.

But I would again caution you, when they say Christ is out in the desert or in the inner rooms, don't believe it. The false Christ comes first just as Paul teaches.

i agree, do you think i believe differently? Again, i think you are either not understanding what i say, or you are confusing me with another poster.

^i^

 

[PlainWord]

i am a mere human, i can be wrong, i can be persuaded by satan, i can make mistakes, i can have false beliefs, However what He told me is True, What i teach is from Him. He is the Truth, not me, nor what comes from my own thinking. What i teach is what He has told me, showed me, or revealed to me, or what His Angels have told me or revealed to me. What i teach is not from me, who is fallible and could be very wrong, what i teach, and have given Him the credit for, is the Truth. Those who do not believe what i teach, do not believe me, but do not believe Him who told me these things. Those who have the Spirit of Truth in them (which are given to them who OBEY Jesus Acts 5:32) will KNOW the Truth when they hear it. If they hear it not, it is because the Truth is not in them. i am like one who is told by a a shining angel the that building is going to fall next week. And i then go into that building and tell everyone that will hear me, the building will fall next week. Many people in that building will say, "well that is what you believe and it is not True" i then tell them that is not what i believe, that is what an Angel of God told me. Is it then my fault if those in the building believe not the words of the Angel of God because i repeated what the Angel said to me? What i teach is from God, if you do not believe me, you do not believe God who told me these things.

^i^

11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

I think I will stick to the written words of our Savior, so no thanks. I am not going to listen to a man who claims to be spiritually lead then teaches things contrary to the written Word of God!!!

 

[PlainWord]

The Lord Returns during the middle of the Tribulation period as also says Scriptures ie After the Tribulation of those days shall the son of man come in the clouds.

Is He coming in the Middle or After now? Which is it??