The Hebrew Roots Cult - Jim Pruitt

[BradC]

2 Corinthians 11:14 - 15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

That we have come to know in the light and it is no great thing that his ministers be transformed as well. Their light is darkness without the truth and their end is according to their works that involve the mystery of iniquity. When we walk in the light of truth through the Spirit, we have the Spirit of truth giving us the discernment we need to continue in the light by faith. The light is our covering from all counterfeit light that does not come from the Father of lights (heavenly light from above). This light we walk in reveals the Son who has given us life in John 8:12.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

 

[zone]

That we have come to know in the light and it is no great thing that his ministers be transformed as well. Their light is darkness without the truth and their end is according to their works that involve the mystery of iniquity. When we walk in the light of truth through the Spirit, we have the Spirit of truth giving us the discernment we need to continue in the light by faith. The light is our covering from all counterfeit light that does not come from the Father of lights (heavenly light from above). This light we walk in reveals the Son who has given us life in John 8:12.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

....

In Defense of Israel will shake Christian theology. It scripturally proves that the Jewish people as a whole did not reject Jesus as Messiah. It will also prove that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah. It will prove that there was a Calvary conspiracy between Rome, the high priest, and Herod to execute Jesus as an insurrectionist too dangerous to live. Since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah, how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered? Read this shocking expose, In Defense of Israel - John Hagee

...

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

1 John 1:22
Who is a liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? The person who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.

 

[RedTent]

I think this is the key. Paul's not just saying we shouldn't obey the laws of Moses for salvation, he's saying we shouldn't obey even as a matter of obedience, as it puts us under the whole of the law.

If we don't eat pig, or shellfish or something because it's healthier, or we don't serve them up because we don't want to offend our Jewish/Muslim guests, that's fine (right?). But as soon as we start doing such things to try to obey the law of Moses (not even for salvation), it puts us under the whole of the law.

Or have I misunderstood?

There is much misunderstanding about this. God had given rituals to the Hebrews as symbols of what Christ would complete. They were obeying the symbols without understanding what they were symbols of. They had been using the blood of animals, a symbol of Christ's blood as a symbol of the blood of Christ. They had not eaten an animal that ate refuse as a symbol of the command to be pure. Paul needed them to understand the real thing, not to use the symbols of the real thing instead of what they needed to know.

There was a council that decided on questions the new church that accepted Christ had. They ruled to accept the requirements of the gentiles by the Jews to obey these rituals. They called these rules the law of Moses, and also called it circumcision. Paul and Peter went to James, Christ's brother who headed the Christian council, to get these rules changed. They were changed, so gentiles were only to obey enough ritual rules to be admitted to the synagogues to learn God's word. Some Jews went to Galatia, for instance, to say they still had to go all rituals. We have the book of Galatians as a result.

When the bible speaks of being under law, it is saying that if you do not take your sins to Jesus you die under the law. It never says that any obedience to law is wrong. Obedience to God's instructions never results in anything but good for us.

 

[RedTent]

I think you understand perfectly. Their trying to separate salvation from obedience is just as perverted as their trying to separate the law of Moses into different parts so that they can make it look like the law is binding on believers.

You making judgments about the movement to know God's entire word better, and to mock that idea. God will not be mocked.

 

[Elin]

Romans 13:8 - 10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

A new commandment?

John 13:34 - 35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Yes, a new commandment.

Jesus upped the ante to love the brethren as he loves, not as we love ourselves.

 

[Elin]

The one who loves fulfills the law. Love is obedience to the 10 commandments.

Still don't understand what you're trying to say.

Just wanted to be sure we weren't excluding the Ten Commandments from our obedience.

 

[Elin]

When we walk in the light of truth through the Spirit, we have the Spirit of truth giving us the discernment we need to continue in the light by faith. The light is our covering from all counterfeit light that does not come from the Father of lights (heavenly light from above). This light we walk in reveals the Son who has given us life in John 8:12.

No, your only covering from counterfeit light is the NT word of God written.

Apart from that, you have no covering.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

And since you do not have the covering of the NT word of God written,

what you present here is contrary to the NT, where Jesus told Ananias that
Paul would take his name to Israel.
And where we also have a letter to Hebrew Christians.

Because your light has no objective standard outside yourself, it is contrary to the NT word of God written, showing itself to be counterfeit light,

 

[BradC]

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

....

In Defense of Israel will shake Christian theology. It scripturally proves that the Jewish people as a whole did not reject Jesus as Messiah. It will also prove that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah. It will prove that there was a Calvary conspiracy between Rome, the high priest, and Herod to execute Jesus as an insurrectionist too dangerous to live. Since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah, how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered? Read this shocking expose, In Defense of Israel - John Hagee

...

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

1 John 1:22
Who is a liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? The person who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.

Red Letter version just for Zone. 'The Great Gap' Listen to these words for they are spoken at this time just for you. You may never hear them again quite this way, so you need to give your undivided attention and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to your heart that you may be quickened and made alive with the truth.

Rom 11:33-36 33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unfathomable (inscrutable, unsearchable) are His judgments (His decisions)! And how untraceable (mysterious, undiscoverable) are His ways (His methods, His paths)! They are past finding out.
34 For who has known the mind of the Lord and who has understood His thoughts, or who has [ever] been His counselor?
35 Or who has first given God anything that he might be paid back or that he could claim a recompense?
36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. [For all things originate with Him and come from Him; all things live through Him, and all things center in and tend to consummate and to end in Him.] To Him be glory forever! Amen (so be it).

 

[Praus]

The light is our covering from all counterfeit light

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

Hebrew Lexicon :: H3722 (KJV)

כָּפַר (kaphar)

Outline of Biblical Usage: to cover, purge, make an atonement, make reconciliation, cover over with pitch
(Qal) to coat or cover with pitch

(Piel) to cover over, pacify, propitiate
to cover over, atone for sin, make atonement for
to cover over, atone for sin and persons by legal rites
(Pual) to be covered over
to make atonement for
(Hithpael) to be covered

 

[zone]

You making judgments about the movement to know God's entire word better, and to mock that idea. God will not be mocked.

it might be useful to start a thread:

regular old Christians and HR ppl....see who knows God's entire word better.

God will not be mocked.

JESUS CHRIST IS HIS BELOVED SON.

NT illuminates the OLD redtent.
how come you rarely mention JESUS?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

it might be useful to start a thread:

regular old Christians and HR ppl....see who knows God's entire word better.

I'd love to see a thread like that. They constantly accuse me of wanting to throw away the OT, but it is precious to me and I bet I know it better than any of them.

 

[zone]

Red Letter version just for Zone. 'The Great Gap' Listen to these words for they are spoken at this time just for you. You may never hear them again quite this way, so you need to give your undivided attention and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to your heart that you may be quickened and made alive with the truth.

Rom 11:33-36 33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unfathomable (inscrutable, unsearchable) are His judgments (His decisions)! And how untraceable (mysterious, undiscoverable) are His ways (His methods, His paths)! They are past finding out.
34 For who has known the mind of the Lord and who has understood His thoughts, or who has [ever] been His counselor?
35 Or who has first given God anything that he might be paid back or that he could claim a recompense?
36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. [For all things originate with Him and come from Him; all things live through Him, and all things center in and tend to consummate and to end in Him.] To Him be glory forever! Amen (so be it).

you've been shown this innumerable times and still deny it.
but here it is again.

Romans 11
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.


[h=2]now[/h] [nou] Show IPA
adverb1.at the present time or moment: You are now using a dictionary.

2.without further delay; immediately; at once: Either do it now ornot at all.

3.at this time or juncture in some period under consideration or insome course of proceedings described: The case was now readyfor the jury.

4.at the time or moment immediately past: I saw him just now onthe street.

5.in these present times; nowadays: Now you rarely see horse-drawn carriages.

 

[zone]

I'd love to see a thread like that. They constantly accuse me of wanting to throw away the OT, but it is precious to me and I bet I know it better than any of them.

perhaps a series of Q & As.

hmm...i wonder how it would work.
let's ponder it.

it would be very useful.

 

[JaumeJ]

Any who say and teach the law is not to be observed, and I speak of those observed by our Savior as Example, is separating faith from obedience. This truth is self-evident. Repent and obey Yahweh. Yeshua demonstrates what and how to obey. Faith without obedience is no faith at all. (The last line here is not intended to be a direct quote. Its content is self-evident also.)

I think you understand perfectly. Their trying to separate salvation from obedience is just as perverted as their trying to separate the law of Moses into different parts so that they can make it look like the law is binding on believers.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Any who say and teach the law is not to be observed, and I speak of those observed by our Savior as Example, is separating faith from obedience. This truth is self-evident. Repent and obey Yahweh. Yeshua demonstrates what and how to obey. Faith without obedience is no faith at all. (The last line here is not intended to be a direct quote. Its content is self-evident also.)

JJ, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[JaumeJ]

The Sheep of God's pasture hear the Voice of the Good Shepherd because they know His voice. It is a shame some hear another voice. By the way your comment is probably the most profound post you have ever made, congratulations.

JJ, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Sheep of God's pasture hear the Voice of the Good Shepherd because they know His voice. It is a shame some hear another voice. By the way your comment is probably the most profound post you have ever made, congratulations.

Thank you, but please give all glory to the good shepherd who told me that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[BradC]

you've been shown this innumerable times and still deny it.
but here it is again.

Romans 11
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.


now

[nou] Show IPA
adverb1.at the present time or moment: You are now using a dictionary.

2.without further delay; immediately; at once: Either do it now ornot at all.

3.at this time or juncture in some period under consideration or insome course of proceedings described: The case was now readyfor the jury.

4.at the time or moment immediately past: I saw him just now onthe street.

5.in these present times; nowadays: Now you rarely see horse-drawn carriages.

There are translations that add the word 'now' in the second part of verse 31 which is not in the original, check the manuscripts. It is not wrong for them to add it to help give understanding, but it can not be used to interpret 'now' as being restricted or confined to a certain time frame for a specific people group. The 'now' that you keep pointing out, that has been added, means by application 'then', 'now' and 'later', OR 'past', present' and the 'future' depending upon the time frame that the people of Israel are living.Yes, Israel had the gospel available to them beginning at Pentecost 'now' as well as they do presently 'now' and that availability also pertains to their future 'now' to those who are in unbelief. The availability of the gospel does not change from then, now or later and both Jew and Gentile are in unbelief until they believe. Israel was partially blinded and scattered because of their rejection of the gospel that included Jesus Christ first coming, but have been gathering back as a people (as they are presently doing about 6 million strong). Most of them are gathered in unbelief but they have a land, they are a nation and a people of the earth and their is no denial of that, if I may say so miraculously along with others like CooCaw who pointed that out in his thread. Your application of verse 31 is not correct because your premise is wrong concerning Israel and the church and your prejudice against Israel and its people being a chosen nation and people who are favored by God.

The Israel who have believed become part of the remnant and a member of Christ's body and church. However, the ones who have not believed are the Israel who remain now in unbelief partially blinded who need to be saved. The gospel is available to them even now in that state and it will be also be available to them in the future all the way until the second coming of Christ when they shall see with their own eyes, the one who they crucified and pierced because of their identification with Israel and its people. At that time they will not be in peace and will be longing for a Deliverer. Don't think for a moment that the present Jews (right now) don't have knowledge as to what happened at Pentecost during the passover. They may ignore Peter's message concerning Christ whom they crucified and not teach their children anything about that, but they can not deny what took place on that day and the fulfillment of prophecy that involved their people who believed upon Christ and were baptized in receiving the Holy Spirit.

 

[JaumeJ]

There is no conflict with the word NOW being included or excluded. We were once disobedient, but now we are shown mercy. What is the problem. Having mercy extended to us for past sins does not translate as we are to continue in disobedience, or is there another teaching from Paul on whether or not we should sin more for mercy to abound? I think not. This "now" business is unecessary as far as my understanding allows. Is someone looking for an excuse to commit intentional sin? I hope not for this is trampling on the sacrifice of our Savior.

There is no reason to concern oneself with obedience of the Father if we love Him. It is our new nature, but to say His will, His commandments are to be ignored just because we now live in grace is stretching mercy beyond the limits it contains. No, commandments are good advice, but more important, they are Yahweh's will.

Regarding Israel, leave Yahweh's design to Yahweh, we of Messiah have nothing to do with the political Israel of this age, but our Father does.

We do pray "Thy will be done" do we not. I know I do.

 

[zone]

There are translations that add the word 'now' in the second part of verse 31 which is not in the original, check the manuscripts. It is not wrong for them to add it to help give understanding, but it can not be used to interpret 'now' as being restricted or confined to a certain time frame for a specific people group. The 'now' that you keep pointing out, that has been added, means by application 'then', 'now' and 'later', OR 'past', present' and the 'future' depending upon the time frame that the people of Israel are living.Yes, Israel had the gospel available to them beginning at Pentecost 'now' as well as they do presently 'now' and that availability also pertains to their future 'now' to those who are in unbelief. The availability of the gospel does not change from then, now or later and both Jew and Gentile are in unbelief until they believe.

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

Israel was partially blinded and scattered because of their rejection of the gospel that included Jesus Christ first coming

There are translations that add the word 'now' in the second part of verse 31 which is not in the original, check the manuscripts. It is not wrong for them to add it to help give understanding, but it can not be used to interpret 'now' as being restricted or confined to a certain time frame for a specific people group. The 'now' that you keep pointing out, that has been added, means by application 'then', 'now' and 'later', OR 'past', present' and the 'future' depending upon the time frame that the people of Israel are living.

Yes, Israel had the gospel available to them beginning at Pentecost 'now' as well as they do presently 'now' and that availability also pertains to their future 'now' to those who are in unbelief. The availability of the gospel does not change from then, now or later and both Jew and Gentile are in unbelief until they believe.

Your application of verse 31 is not correct because your premise is wrong concerning Israel and the church and

your prejudice against Israel and its people being a chosen nation and people who are favored by God.

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

The Israel who have believed become part of the remnant and a member of Christ's body and church.

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

However, the ones who have not believed are the Israel who remain now in unbelief partially blinded who need to be saved. The gospel is available to them even now in that state and it will be also be available to them in the future all the way until the second coming of Christ

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

Don't think for a moment that the present Jews (right now) don't have knowledge as to what happened at Pentecost during the passover. They may ignore Peter's message concerning Christ whom they crucified and not teach their children anything about that, but they can not deny what took place on that day and the fulfillment of prophecy that involved their people who believed upon Christ and were baptized in receiving the Holy Spirit.

you and your buddy HAGEE said they're blind.



eh...intolerable.