What Laws are still valid to christians

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Welshman

Guest
We are in fact in a state of gestation , not as yet born again, we wnt be totally born again til he collects all from the four corners of the globe , we have a deposit in us, just as a woman with child, she may have a child already ; inside her body) bt that child isn't born yet? Gestation is an identical situation as to we're we are in Christ? Yes we are in him bt as yet we are not born again fully? The Holy Spirit is a guarantee we are gods children and are about to be born in him? Fully spiritual ? First natural then spiritual ? It has to be this way as there can be no sin in the spiritual ? Gods ways are beyond comprehension truly mindblowing wen we see as children? Shall he who causes delivery not also bring to birth? Life, us, the reality of life is Jesus is so big so vast he doesn't walk or live in us as much as we really walk and have our life in him? God is beyond us yet he speaks to us? Fancy god who made all seen and unseen talks to us? We ought be as. Babes? Not scholars...
 
Jan 27, 2013
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I do not know why you are feeling this way about what is said by me from me to all.
Do we not all have our own stories? Are our own stories real to each or not? Do we not all have this right? So why can't we look at the other's story as to why? may the below might help and quit being so concerned as if we are going to be deceived, when Father is faithful to cause each one of his to stand.


THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.

Judgements are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgements, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguements, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.
Judgements are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences.
good thing we all went to school, so we can learned. what is been said when someone writes.(never said i could write or spell lol)
good thing the holy spirit can teach us different thing, and open our eyes to what he want to say, and do.etc
Steer clear from arguements, s
eek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.
i am already free by the grace of jesus
however when has my quotes, been used to condemed or be miss used, to further my point of veiw. as they talk, and point to the change jesus has made about the new covent. (not royalscots change of covent)
and were quoted with bible reference.
and at no point have i judge anyone, but have challenged them regarding there quotes.

I do not know why you are feeling this way about what is said by me from me to all.
i have no idea, what your talking about, and have responded to you, regarding your quotes to posts, i have wrote. not all the post you have wrote.

and i have quoted in past posts, judge not or be judged, and forgive to be forgiven
Lesson our judgement of others,
i think i have answered that.
god bless all
 
Oct 23, 2013
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In response to the question of the thread - ALL Laws. Please read this booklet "Paul's message - It is NOT I that lives" The Divine in me

Christ came, not to destroy the NATIONAL (moral) Law and Prophets (only the ceremonial sacrificial Law, which was only a school-master to bring people to Christ) but to fulfill them. The prophets all prophesied about The Kingdom and the setting up of The Kingdom, with its Laws; Statutes; Judgements; Economic Policy; Agricultural Policy etc. and the peace; prosperity and blessings it would bestow on ALL mankind - "Summer".
Matthew 5
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in NO way pass from the Law, till all (the prophecies) be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians (who were also priests), ye shall in NO case enter into the Kingdom of heaven.
 
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Welshman

Guest
Sorry for thread comment reg gestation was meant for prophecy thread forgot again wat page I was on sorry to all much love n that ? Lol
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Who gives you the authority to pick and choose which parts of the law to obey and not obey?
Authority? :confused:

HeRoseFromTheDead, if I testify about myself my testimony is worthless. I'm testifying what Christ said. I point to him. *I* haven't picked or chosen any parts to obey over others, but quoted; quoted what *Christ said* to do to obtain eternal life...verbatim.

I did not add to. I did not take away. I quoted Christ speaking in HIS authority on following the commandments, and then summarized. To believe in the one who God has sent is to believe in what he *says* (because his words are spirit & life).

So what did *Christ say* to do in Matthew 19:16-21, Mark 10:17-21 and Luke 18:18-22 to enter into life?

1. Keep the Commandments (and Christ references the ones he's referring to; the ones shouted down)
2. Follow him (consequently to receive his spirit/grace/truth to "complete" oneself).

Christ even spoke a parable to this same effect. It's the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, and it was a parable about repentance (i.e. turning from one's sins = following the law), spoken to the Pharisees who did not follow God's law but followed their own rules.

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Both the rich man and Lazarus die, but the rich man is in torment while Lazarus is in Abraham's bosom. After pleading for mercy, the rich man asks Abraham (and again, this is verbatim)...

Luke 16:27-29
27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send [Lazarus] to my father's house--

28 for I have five brothers-- in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29 "But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them
So the rich man wants Abraham to send Lazarus to warn the man's brothers to avoid his torment. But Abraham refuses saying they have "Moses and the Prophets" to listen to to avoid the torment. The rich man protests...

Luke 16:30
30 "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'
The rich man thinks they will surely listen to someone who has resurrected from death, and thus repent from their sins. But Christ concluded that Abraham would say...

Luke 16:31
31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded [to repent] even if someone rises from the dead.'"
Summary: Christ said that without listening to Moses & The Prophets one will not repent even if someone* was sent to them who RoseFromTheDead* (see the connection being made for us?). So Christ in all of his authority pointed back to the Law for repentance...and then (in Luke 18:18) pointed *specifically* to the Commandments shouted down (while following him), if one wants to have eternal life.
 
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Graybeard

Guest
Sorry for thread comment reg gestation was meant for prophecy thread forgot again wat page I was on sorry to all much love n that ? Lol
oi!!...second time now....strike three your'e out!:D
 
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Welshman

Guest
The Mystery of Israel's Blindness
Concerning the mystery of Israel's blindness, Paul states: "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:25). Why is Israel an enemy of the Gospel in this age and blinded in unbelief? Paul answers this by stating that Israel had sought after the "law of righteousness" but had not attained it "because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law, for they stumbled at that stumbling-stone" which is Christ (Rom. 9:31-33).


Jesus was to go first unto His own house, the nation of Israel, "to the Jew first" (Rom. 1:16). John states that Jesus "came unto His own, and his own received Him not" (John 1:11). Therefore, when Jesus was rejected by the rulers of the nation of Israel, He hid the treasure (Israel) again (Matt. 13:44). He later spoke to the chief priests and Pharisees concerning the Gentiles, "Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" (Matt. 21:43). Even though He was rejected by His own people, He did not reject them, but paid the ultimate price at Calvary. He sold all He had to pay the redemption price for His treasure Israel.


The history of Israel's past, present, and future is given in the Book of Romans chapters 9-11. In Chapter 9 Paul explains Israel's past election in relation to God's sovereignty. In chapter 10 he explains Israel's present rejection in relation to God's righteousness and in chapter 11 Israel's future restoration as a nation.




Israel's Past Election


In Romans chapter 9 Paul discusses Israel's past election and the privileges God had given them as His treasure. They include: (1) Israel's adoption; (2) the glory on Mt. Sinai and the Holy of Holies; (3) the covenants, which included those with Abraham, Moses, and David; (4) the law, which was given to Israel at Mt. Sinai; (5) the service of the tabernacle and priesthood; (6) the promises to Israel concerning the coming kingdom; (7) the fathers of the nation of Israel (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob); and (8) Christ the Son of God, Israel's Messiah and Redeemer. Yet Israel failed to appreciate her privileges and "stumbled at that stumbling-stone" which was Christ (see 1 Pet. 2:8).


God's past election of Israel is based upon His sovereignty and whether we agree with His decision or not, God has chosen the nation of Israel to be His "peculiar treasure" (Ex. 19:5). Yet Israel has rejected God's righteousness and stumbled in unbelief. Israel was to be a light to the other nations, but ultimately failed to realize God's plans and purposes.




Israel's Present Rejection


In Romans chapter 10 Paul explains Israel's present setting aside in unbelief due to their "going about to establish their own righteousness" (Rom. 10:3). They failed to realize that "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" (Rom. 10:4). Many professing Christians today are like Israel in that they have a religion, but no relationship. They are trying to establish their salvation on a works basis. Many are just as zealous and just as blind as Israel in relation to the "righteousness which is of faith" (Rom. 10:6).


During this age there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile (Rom. 10:12). Both must "confess," and "believe," (Rom. 10:9), and "call upon the name of the Lord" (Rom. 10:13) in order to be saved. In this age the Gentiles have responded by faith (Rom. 10:20); whereas, Israel has by their disobedience rejected the righteousness of God (Rom. 10:21). Therefore, during this dispensation God's "peculiar treasure" (Israel) has been temporarily hidden while the body of Christ is being completed (Rom. 11:25).




Israel's Future Restoration


In Romans chapter 11 Paul relates Israel's future restoration as a nation. Paul asks the question, "Hath God cast away His people?" and answers it with a definitive "God forbid" (Rom. 11:1). The present suspension of Israel is only temporary. Many today teach that the church has taken the place of Israel and that God's promises for Israel now find their completion within the church. Paul states that, "God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew" (Rom. 11:2). The treasure is now hid but will be brought to light when God's plans and purposes for His church are completed. During the present age God has "a remnant according to the election of grace" (Rom. 11:5).


Paul asks another question in relation to Israel's setting aise, "Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy" (Rom. 11:11). Just as Israel's rejection has brought salvation to the Gentiles, their restoration will occasion great blessing for the world (Rom. 11:12-15). Paul then speaks concerning Israel as the good olive tree whose branches have been broken off in unbelief (Rom. 11:16-20). Paul states: "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He also spare not thee" (Rom. 11:21). J. Vernon McGee remarks that "since God did not spare the nation Israel when they apostasized, the argument is that He will not spare an apostate church." After the body of Christ is completed, God will call His Bride home and He will again deal with the nation of Israel. Through faith Israel will be grafted back into their own olive tree (Rom. 11:24)


Paul now comes to the restoration of the nation of Israel. The mystery is revealed that Israel is partially blinded until the "fulness of the Gentles be come in" (Rom. 11:25). Paul speaks here of the "fulness of the Gentiles" (Rom. 11:25), while Luke speaks of the "times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24). Are they similar? The "times of the Gentiles" began with the rise of the Babylonian Empire in 606 B.C. and will end with the return of Christ at the end of the Tribulation period. Notice that in the last forty-two months of the Tribulation, the Gentiles will control the temple and the city of Jerusalem (Rev. 11:2b). Gentile dominion will end with the breaking in pieces of the image of Nebuchadnezzar by the stone "cut out without hands" symbolizing the everlasting kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ (Dan. 2:34-35; 44-45). The "fulness of the Gentiles" (Rom. 11:25) concerns the full number of Gentiles that will be saved during the church age which will complete the body of Christ (cf. Acts 15:14).


When Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation "all Israel shall be saved" (Rom. 11:26). This does not mean that every Israelite will be saved, but relates to a remnant who have as individuals turned from their transgression (See Isa. 59:20-21). Notice that the conversion of Israel will issue in a new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34; Heb. 8:8-13) which will restore Israel to God's favor and blessing (Hos. 2:19-20) and result in their elevation to the head of the nations (Deut. 28:13; Jer. 31:38-40). Though Israel is at enmity with the Gospel today, they are still God's "peculiar treasure" and concerning their election, "they are beloved for the Father's sake" (Rom. 11:28).


In her book, The Study of the Parables, Ada Habershon notes that "the field, we know, is the world, and the Lord paid the price for the whole, not that He might gain possession of Israel only, but that He might have all His redeemed, every one for whom His death paid the price;..." We were all included in that purchase when Christ died at Calvary's cross, "for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2). The mystery of Israel's blindness (Rom. 11:25) emphasizes God's plans and purposes in the restoration of Israel, when at last the Lord will possess His earthly treasure (See Amos 9:14; Acts 15:17).
 
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Welshman

Guest
Ref wrong thread? Lol no worries get carried away writing
 
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Welshman

Guest
We on here, at least some understand the tension still between Jew/gentile alike bt lets all remember none of us know the whole truth nor every detail of whats ahead bt we do know when Christ comes all of us will weep then rejoice that he has made one people's for himself from two people's and enmity will cease for true understanding of his purpose will be made clear , we as Gentiles are grafted in only and Israel will be restored when he returns no faith for us to follow no law for them just Jesus for both amen we must love Israel come what may even when thier leaders are corrupt the people and land of Israel is we're the god of all things has chose as his home anyone wants god change his mind is in for a rude awakening ? God does not change?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I did not add to. I did not take away. I quoted Christ speaking in HIS authority on following the commandments, and then summarized. To believe in the one who God has sent is to believe in what he *says* (because his words are spirit & life).

So what did *Christ say* to do in Matthew 19:16-21, Mark 10:17-21 and Luke 18:18-22 to enter into life?

1. Keep the Commandments (and Christ references the ones he's referring to; the ones shouted down)
OK, so now I see that you're not referring to the whole law of Moses, but just the 10 commandments.

It's funny how you place so much emphasis on that one encounter with the rich, young ruler, yet ignore all of the many other scriptures that teach that love and faith are obedience to those 10 commandments. Funny, but sad really.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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OK, so now I see that you're not referring to the whole law of Moses, but just the 10 commandments.

It's funny how you place so much emphasis on that one encounter with the rich, young ruler, yet ignore all of the many other scriptures that teach that love and faith are obedience to those 10 commandments. Funny, but sad really.
Sigh...

If I say I'm an American, I'm an American...but if I say I am a Delawarean, am I suddenly disqualified from being an American? No, that makes me a specific American. If I say "Moses & Prophets", "God's Law", "The Torah", "Commandments shouted down"...each of these direct your attention to the Instructions given at Mt. Sinai (even Christ's commandments aren't new but - ALSO - direct one's attention BACK to the Instructions at Mt. Sinai). The SAME instructions incorrectly argued by some as "done away with".

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The SAME Mt. Sinai instructions many incorrectly label as "The Old Testament" or "Old Covenant" when a covenant is a contract...and contracts are NOT law but instruments *based on* the law. And a Testament is a legal declaration effective only after a party has died (like a "Will & Testament"). A Testament is NOT the law either.

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You see HeRose, I've placed the same emphasis on everything I've been quoting since I started...and when I've needed to get specific with you I did. I've even shared the order of the quotes so you can see the relationship between my two posts (that's why I put the Luke 18:18 reference).

You see I haven't place any emphasis anywhere; on any one point: I purposely provided the complete scene in context. I purposely provided other testimonies of that scene because every testimony requires two or more witnesses. And I purposely provided a summary of each verse (and the entire scene) so there was no misunderstanding...all so you have no way of avoiding what Christ is saying other than closing your eyes.

You keep trying to find fault in what I'm saying but I keep directing you to what Christ says and you won't address what Christ is saying...and we both know why you won't sir. Because you can't say Christ was wrong. You can't. So you absolutely MUST direct your accusations to me; as if *I'm* picking certain laws over others, when I've merely quoted and summarized The Messiah words.

Your contention is not with me sir, it's with Christ.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Lose the self-indulgent mannerisms please.

If I say I'm an American, I'm an American...but if I say I am a Delawarean, am I suddenly disqualified from being an American? No, that makes me a specific American. If I say "Moses & Prophets", "God's Law", "The Torah", "Commandments shouted down"...each of these direct your attention to the Instructions given at Mt. Sinai (even Christ's commandments aren't new but - ALSO - direct one's attention BACK to the Instructions at Mt. Sinai). The SAME instructions incorrectly argued by some as "done away with".
The instructions given at Sinai are not the root. Christ is the root. The instructions at Mt. Sinai direct one's attention FORWARD to Christ. Christ is not attainable by law; only through faith.

The SAME Mt. Sinai instructions many incorrectly label as "The Old Testament" or "Old Covenant" when a covenant is a contract...and contracts are NOT law but instruments *based on* the law. And a Testament is a legal declaration effective only after a party has died (like a "Will & Testament"). A Testament is NOT the law either.
You do not understand covenants. Covenants are not based on law; rather covenants have laws that must be obeyed. The law of Moses was the law of the old covenant. The word testament should not even be part of this discussion because that is a Roman perversion of scripture. Covenants have nothing to do with testaments.

No comment on the rest of your diatribe. It's not clear and confusing.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Lose the self-indulgent mannerisms please.



The instructions given at Sinai are not the root. Christ is the root. The instructions at Mt. Sinai direct one's attention FORWARD to Christ. Christ is not attainable by law; only through faith.



You do not understand covenants. Covenants are not based on law; rather covenants have laws that must be obeyed. The law of Moses was the law of the old covenant. The word testament should not even be part of this discussion because that is a Roman perversion of scripture. Covenants have nothing to do with testaments.

No comment on the rest of your diatribe. It's not clear and confusing.
Sigh...

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Question: In what law?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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I already told you: you know and I know. What's your point?
No you haven't actually said it. Here's the thing; in all honestly I could have a completely different (and possibly wrong) understanding about where the greatest commandment is found...and it's clear from your previous post that you don't believe I know (all of) what you know, so I'm asking you for confirmation.

Is the greatest commandment that Christ shared, and said to follow, his *own* commandment; a "new" one...or is it from the law of Moses; from a law to follow from "the old covenant"?
 
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Hoffco

Guest
All the Bible is inspired by God and all is still good for our instruction today. We MUST study the old ways of God, O.T., but with the understanding that none of it is in force today, that we must obey it. Jesus kept the O.T. perfectly and did away with it.! After Jesus death, the N.COV. was put into force. The N.T. is the only part that we are required to obey as LAW for us. The gospels paved the way for the N. Cov. Jesus' teaching corrected the Pharisees corruption and restored the Spiritual meaning of the O.T. Law. The book of acts is a rough sledding time of transition to the N. Cov. . with much great teaching and some confusion. The rest of the N.T. books smoothed out the road for us, YET, with some confusion,as how to live in the N. Cov. church. For me, this question is, therefore, very simple; I only look to the N.T. for the laws I am to obey. Mind you, I love to study the O.T. for illustrations and principle building to teach the N.Cov. doctrines. The O. Cov. is rich ; BUT, it has no force over us today. Love to all. Hoffco
 
Sep 4, 2012
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No you haven't actually said it. Here's the thing; in all honestly I could have a completely different (and possibly wrong) understanding about where the greatest commandment is found...and it's clear from your previous post that you don't believe I know (all of) what you know, so I'm asking you for confirmation.

Is the greatest commandment that Christ shared, and said to follow, his *own* commandment; a "new" one...or is it from the law of Moses; from a law to follow from "the old covenant"?
It's both new and old. It originated in the old covenant, and under the new covenant Christ revealed the manner in which it is to be, and can only be, obeyed.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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It's both new and old. It originated in the old covenant, and under the new covenant Christ revealed the manner in which it is to be, and can only be, obeyed.
Thank you. So Christ did not give a "new" commandment; the greatest commandment is an "old" commandment from the law of Moses.

So then God's laws ARE *distinct* from the covenants, right
...because otherwise how can one be under the NEW covenant but still obey a law - unaltered - that originated under the OLD covenant; the very act many have been arguing is a work in "self-righteousness", saying "obeying a law from Moses automatically places oneself under the OLD covenant...even if one believes in Christ's grace in the NEW covenant"?